My Sherman L Trials, Tribulations, and Triumphs

[Rawnei]

I bet the Sherman L would flex even less with properly torqued bolts. 😂

The biggest risk is that bolts can come loose over time if not properly torqued, specially if you have a demanding use case, lots of off-road or other stressful riding.

[techyiam]

49 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I bet the Sherman L would flex even less with properly torqued bolts. 😂

The biggest risk is that bolts can come loose over time if not properly torqued, specially if you have a demanding use case, lots of off-road or other stressful riding.

But, but, Marty is OK with that. 

He will tighten the loose ones if he happens to notice them. It's an easy fix anyway. Getting back out riding is more important than to worry about such details.

I subscribe to a diametrically opposite mentality; an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

But he is the one making the videos and sharing with other riders in the community, including those who are looking for guidance.

 

 

[Rawnei]

@Marty Backe  it would be very interesting if you and Roger took at look at Brians flexy Lynx and tightened the bolts to see if it would make a difference for him, sorta like a before and after.

Probably won't happen but would be an interesting experiment.

Edited August 5 by Rawnei

[techyiam]

32 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

@Marty Backe  it would be very interesting if you and Roger took at look at Brians flexy Lynx and tightened the bolts to see if it would make a difference for him, sorta like a before and after.

Probably won't happen but would be an interesting experiment.

Sorry for jumping in.

But doesn't Roger already own a flexy Linx?

[Rawnei]

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

Sorry for jumping in.

But doesn't Roger already own a flexy Linx?

Brian is the guy making a video complaining about the flex in his Lynx which started the whole discussion about flex.

Edited August 5 by Rawnei

[techyiam]

16 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Brain is the guy making a video complaining about the flex in his Lynx which started the whole discussion about flex.

You mean the one posted in Dawn's YouTube Channel. 

If not, can you provide a link.

[Rawnei]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

You mean the one posted in Dawn's YouTube Channel. 

If not, can you provide a link.

Yes, the video even has his name in the title.

[Duster]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Sorry for jumping in.

But doesn't Roger already own a flexy Linx?

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Brain is the guy making a video complaining about the flex in his Lynx which started the whole discussion about flex.

Also worth note, Roger's Lynx doesn't seem to have as much or as deep scoring on the motor case, so that could suggest Brian's wheel has either been ridden harder, or has more flex as a result of potential loose and/or worn down motor screws and mounts. If anything, it'd provide insights to see the differences between their two wheels.

[Marty Backe]

7 hours ago, Rawnei said:

@Marty Backe  it would be very interesting if you and Roger took at look at Brians flexy Lynx and tightened the bolts to see if it would make a difference for him, sorta like a before and after.

Probably won't happen but would be an interesting experiment.

Brian lives in a different part of California and works on his own wheels. I'm confident all the screws have been tightened.

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, Duster said:

Also worth note, Roger's Lynx doesn't seem to have as much or as deep scoring on the motor case, so that could suggest Brian's wheel has either been ridden harder, or has more flex as a result of potential loose and/or worn down motor screws and mounts. If anything, it'd provide insights to see the differences between their two wheels.

I you have seen the EXTREME level of carving that Brian does compared to 98% of all riders that I have ever seen, you would understand why his motor has much more scoring than other Lynx's 

This flex "issue" is not something that the vast majority of riders will ever have to be concerned with, IMHO.

[Anthraksi]

On 8/5/2024 at 1:28 AM, Marty Backe said:

I will continue to promote charging to 100% and forgetting about it. And I will also continue to preface that recommendation with caveats. It's my opinion, formed over 8-years of personal experience and the experience of riders that I personally know.

I see no reason why this would be considered a bad practice. If you plan on riding the wheel soon-ish I don't think you cause you any harm by charging it to 100%. Sure, charging to 80% makes the cells last longer and if you have a Smart BMS it should also balance them at that point. But what is the point? Using only 80% of the battery's max capacity to make it last longer? You lose more than you gain in my books since you are willingly giving up 20% of range.

Also the spec sheets still state that it is around 500 cycles until the max capacity is @ 80%. Giving the sherman L a relatively conservative 160km range (about what I get on the S) is 80 000km of riding. If you ride 8k per year thats a whole decade of riding right there. I'd wager the batteries start degrading due to natural age before they start degrading through usage. And they still got life in them after that 80k, I'd wager that 100k is possible on these big battery wheels.

But people are free to do as they like, I just see no point in fussing over the batteries in a way that you limit the charging to 80% and never use it above that since even using them to their full potential should give them a lifecycle that is probably long enough for one EUC.

[Rawnei]

33 minutes ago, Anthraksi said:

I see no reason why this would be considered a bad practice. If you plan on riding the wheel soon-ish I don't think you cause you any harm by charging it to 100%. Sure, charging to 80% makes the cells last longer and if you have a Smart BMS it should also balance them at that point. But what is the point? Using only 80% of the battery's max capacity to make it last longer? You lose more than you gain in my books since you are willingly giving up 20% of range.

Also the spec sheets still state that it is around 500 cycles until the max capacity is @ 80%. Giving the sherman L a relatively conservative 160km range (about what I get on the S) is 80 000km of riding. If you ride 8k per year thats a whole decade of riding right there. I'd wager the batteries start degrading due to natural age before they start degrading through usage. And they still got life in them after that 80k, I'd wager that 100k is possible on these big battery wheels.

But people are free to do as they like, I just see no point in fussing over the batteries in a way that you limit the charging to 80% and never use it above that since even using them to their full potential should give them a lifecycle that is probably long enough for one EUC.

You forget he owns like 15 EUC sitting there watching him enjoy the latest and greatest. 😁

[Anthraksi]

1 minute ago, Rawnei said:

You forget he owns like 15 EUC sitting there watching him enjoy the latest and greatest. 😁

Yeah well obviously I wouldn't leave it at 100% for too long. One day? Won't be sweating. Week? Well... I wouldn't. Longer? Hell no.

Easy to say though when I got only one EUC and if I realize I charged it up and have no time to ride it anytime soon it takes very little effort to head out for a couple of minutes and blast it at +60kmh speeds to get it drained to 80%-ish pretty quick.

[Skampster]

6 hours ago, Anthraksi said:

Sure, charging to 80% makes the cells last longer and if you have a Smart BMS it should also balance them at that point. But what is the point? Using only 80% of the battery's max capacity to make it last longer? You lose more than you gain in my books since you are willingly giving up 20% of range.

My original point has nothing to do at all with the charge to only 80% mantra. My beef here is simply the fact that people will charge a wheel to 100% and leave it stored at that level. This is way worse in the long run than charging to 100% each time before use. I charge every wheel I have to 100% minutes before riding. I know exactly how long my main two wheels take to charge from 60% to 100% so I can plan the day. Each wheel when not in use will sit at 60%. If for whatever reason I need to go out at very short notice, my Sherman S, and soon to be, Sherman L has enough range at 60% to get me where in need to go in a pinch. 
The fact that people will leave a wheel sitting long term at 100% intentionally baffles me, especially in Marty’s case that he’s smart enough to know it’s not good for them and using the “ other people do it” excuse is baseline moronic. 
And I agree, people who only charge to 80% in order to gain more cycles is equally as mad, you’re basically charging to 80% to stop your wheel degrading to 80%, you might as well enjoy the benefits of of 100% for a few years before you reach the 80% cap, and in most cases, you’ll never reach to 500 charges anyway. My Sherman S was bought last October, has 3600km’s on the clock, and has only had 28 full charges in that time, only 28. I know because I keep track of this information to inform the new owner of its battery health history. I wouldn’t knowing how Marty stores his wheels ever buy one of his, and I actually hope in future he informs potential buyers of this information. 
No offence Marty, but you’re being irresponsible, knowingly irresponsible which is worse. These wheels if looked after and maintain properly can last for years, it’s not that difficult to store your wheels correctly. 
 

By the way @Anthraksi, the quote from Marty you did a few post back is misleading to my argument. He will continue to promote charging to 100% is in regards to storing wheels, not charging this till before use. 

Edited August 7 by Skampster

[Marty Backe]

 

[Anthraksi]

1 hour ago, Skampster said:

My original point has nothing to do at all with the charge to only 80% mantra. My beef here is simply the fact that people will charge a wheel to 100% and leave it stored at that level. This is way worse in the long run than charging to 100% each time before use. I charge every wheel I have to 100% minutes before riding. I know exactly how long my main two wheels take to charge from 60% to 100% so I can plan the day. Each wheel when not in use will sit at 60%. If for whatever reason I need to go out at very short notice, my Sherman S, and soon to be, Sherman L has enough range at 60% to get me where in need to go in a pinch. 
The fact that people will leave a wheel sitting long term at 100% intentionally baffles me, especially in Marty’s case that he’s smart enough to know it’s not good for them and using the “ other people do it” excuse is baseline moronic. 
And I agree, people who only charge to 80% in order to gain more cycles is equally as mad, you’re basically charging to 80% to stop your wheel degrading to 80%, you might as well enjoy the benefits of of 100% for a few years before you reach the 80% cap, and in most cases, you’ll never reach to 500 charges anyway. My Sherman S was bought last October, has 3600km’s on the clock, and has only had 28 full charges in that time, only 28. I know because I keep track of this information to inform the new owner of its battery health history. I wouldn’t knowing how Marty stores his wheels ever buy one of his, and I actually hope in future he informs potential buyers of this information. 
No offence Marty, but you’re being irresponsible, knowingly irresponsible which is worse. These wheels if looked after and maintain properly can last for years, it’s not that difficult to store your wheels correctly. 
 

By the way @Anthraksi, the quote from Marty you did a few post back is misleading to my argument. He will continue to promote charging to 100% is in regards to storing wheels, not charging this till before use. 

Ah, guess I misunderstood the point then. As you can probably tell from my message above yours, I don't believe having the wheel sit at 100% is wise either. I see 0 reason to do it since you should absolutely have an idea if you are able to ride tomorrow, how long you feel like going and what wheel you want to take. So you probably can plan a little ahead and charge it the day before rather than hold it at 100% for longer periods just in case you decide you want to go for a ride with it. Fast chargers can also be used for a fast top up as well.

But that said, I don't really care what other people do with their wheels. But it also creates a situation where I avoid buying any used wheels since most of the time you have no idea how the battery has been taken care of.

[Skampster]

50 minutes ago, Anthraksi said:

But that said, I don't really care what other people do with their wheels.

Yes, either do I at some point, but you don’t mass publicly support the practice, especially when you have reach, and don’t sell your wheels to unsuspecting buyers if this is how you treat your wheels. I don’t care if people wear helmets or not, their brain, their problem, but don’t try and boost the hobby online while encouraging other people that it’s ok to not wear protection. What pisses me off about Marty is the blatant “I don’t give a f#%&’ attitude, someone in his position should not have this attitude, it shows he really doesn’t care that much about the wheels he loves. 

Edited August 8 by Skampster

[Jayzao]

On 8/5/2024 at 4:21 AM, Rawnei said:

Yes, the video even has his name in the title.

This video?

Roger said yesterday that he still loves his Lynx.
But I also saw his flex video. So, I don't know how those two things correlate.
We can love some things about some wheels while disliking other attributes.
One could say there are no perfect wheels...yet... or perhaps never.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Jayzao said:

We can love some things about some wheels while disliking other attributes.
One could say there are no perfect wheels...yet... or perhaps never.

I would agree that defining a best wheel can be so complicatedly subjective that the average rider would be hard pressed to know that he has found the best wheel for him at the moment of purchase. 

I suspect for many, even if one's choice of wheel purchased turned out to be not so ideal, the owner can often than not spend time and money to make it a good wheel.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Jayzao said:

This video?

Roger said yesterday that he still loves his Lynx.
But I also saw his flex video. So, I don't know how those two things correlate.
We can love some things about some wheels while disliking other attributes.
One could say there are no perfect wheels...yet... or perhaps never.

Maybe because not everyone goes around manhandling their wheels trying to forcibly twist them. 

Just because a wheel can flex does not mean it will flex under the conditions that you ride it.

I can honestly say that Roger loves his Lynx

[Skampster]

Yes, the flex issue got blown overboard. 

[Marty Backe]

 

[Marty Backe]

 

[Anthraksi]

Huh, I get similar range with similar speeds with the S. Granted I am probably lighter (around 70kg) which mostly explains the difference, but the 400wh increase isn't that big either especially when you consider that the added power of the L might get you to ride more aggressively.

Still more than happy with the S, zero issues and it still even after 6000km has enough power and torque for my needs. I had a desire (and still do to some extent) to upgrade to the L but ehhhh, for what it costs and what I get in return it just seems more and more to be an unwise decision and more or less a waste of money when considering the bigger picture.

[techyiam]

25 minutes ago, Anthraksi said:

Huh, I get similar range with similar speeds with the S. Granted I am probably lighter (around 70kg) which mostly explains the difference, but the 400wh increase isn't that big either especially when you consider that the added power of the L might get you to ride more aggressively.

Still more than happy with the S, zero issues and it still even after 6000km has enough power and torque for my needs. I had a desire (and still do to some extent) to upgrade to the L but ehhhh, for what it costs and what I get in return it just seems more and more to be an unwise decision and more or less a waste of money when considering the bigger picture.

But you ride in Finland, right?

Don't you have to worry about the police?