Kingsong King-F22 , the King of High Performance | 155.4V 20" 2738Wh 50S

[YCC]

9 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Perhaps having 4 spreads the forces and loads on each stanchion which means there is less susceptibility to oil leakage and pressure. Can the weight of the springs used be less or oil more viscous? Is this wheel ideal for heavy riders or bigger jumps/drops? even with less travel? It will be interesting to find out, then we can judge on whether its a good idea or not.

I think this is one of the selling points of F22. The unique suspension system and audio system always are the selling points of Kinsong. 

[Maverick]

I read this in a YouTube comment and I think I agree.  The shock absorber in this location could take hard impacts easier than in the middle where they are protected.  One good ding and it not going to slide freely.

[The Brahan Seer]

12 hours ago, Maverick said:

The shock absorber in this location could take hard impacts easier than in the middle where they are protected.  One good ding and it not going to slide freely.

Thats a very good point. They certainly are more protected.  We need to see how strong the guards are and the strength of the stanchions too. Perhaps In a major crash having a $200 stanchion take the impact is more preferable than a $1000 battery case. Though in that big a crash its probably the least of our worries. In normal run of the mill crashes it would be a bummer if the stanchions bent too easily (I wouldn't be surprised if this is picked up on during the youtubers testing out the wheel.) We all know Kingsong are not known for there super robustness. Our wheels are always a compromise atm. 

Edited July 6 by The Brahan Seer

[PourUC]

On the weight, I wonder how much those SS looking front and rear handle supports/bumpers weigh.

Seem's like a 3D printed alternative would instantly shave 2kg

Also, on the Lynx weight. The stock pedals are SUPER light, but are essentially a must change. The kingsong S22 pedals are worse, but also much heavier than the lynx pedals. I wonder if the F22 pedals are heavier or lighter than good alternatives.

Edited July 6 by PourUC

[Maverick]

51 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Thats a very good point. They certainly are more protected.  We need to see how strong the guards are and the strength of the stanchions too. Perhaps In a major crash having a $200 stanchion take the impact is more preferable than a $1000 battery case. Though in that big a crash its probably the least of our worries. In normal run of the mill crashes it would be a bummer if the stanchions bent too easily (I wouldn't be surprised if this is picked up on during the youtubers testing out the wheel.) We all know Kingsong are not known for there super robustness. Our wheels are always a compromise atm. 

Your thought about the stanchion versus battery case costs is a very good point I didn't consider.  Thank you.

[DavidB]

A fair few negative comments without anyone having experienced this wheel. It looks alright with some interesting ideas. I wish they would just drop the RGB and stick with red for rear lights. No mention of weight in the web site specs. 

https://kingsong.com/product/ks-f22/

Edited July 7 by DavidB

[Duster]

21 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Thats a very good point. They certainly are more protected.  We need to see how strong the guards are and the strength of the stanchions too. Perhaps In a major crash having a $200 stanchion take the impact is more preferable than a $1000 battery case. Though in that big a crash its probably the least of our worries. In normal run of the mill crashes it would be a bummer if the stanchions bent too easily (I wouldn't be surprised if this is picked up on during the youtubers testing out the wheel.) We all know Kingsong are not known for there super robustness. Our wheels are always a compromise atm. 

I'm a little confused about how the $1000 case part occurs. Let me show what I mean:

On ewheels' site, stantion-style wheels like the Lynx and the Sherman S have shock sets that cost $190 per pair, and one side of the Lynx body panels is $250 (the SS has four panels, at a cost of $139 each).

If the F22 were to damage one or more shocks from a crash (even with the shock protectors) and only the shocks and their protectors are damaged, that could be around $190 of a fix, considering King Song are also using FastAce shocks (unless that's changed). Though it's not a difference of spending $200 or $1000, it's more of a difference between spending at least $200 or $280. Keep in mind, we don't know how much the parts for the F22 will cost, and whether the shocks will be sold in sets or individually.

Anyways, all that's assuming that damage would only occur to the shocks (and the protectors) and not the rest of body.  I am having a tough time imagining that the F22 body wouldn't be damaged in a hard crash (imagine flipping or colliding with multiple jagged things like rocks or curbs). From the shock mounts, to the bumpers, to the rest of the body, if one part of the frame gets damaged you would not only have to replace shocks, but also body panels. This is also not to mention that the body is designed to deflect impacts while shocks are only dedicated to their one/two tasks: suspension and holding the wheel together.

With all these hypotheticals in mind, I think I'd rather replace body panels before shocks. I'd even be able to live with dents on a body longer than I could on suspension (if it impacted suspension performance).

Edited July 7 by Duster
Tightening my hypotheticals to be more logistical.

[The Brahan Seer]

2 hours ago, Duster said:

I'm a little confused about how the $1000 case part occurs

Price of the batteries potentially damaged too in a major crash. But perhaps you are over thinking things. It was a very general observation about a potential benefit and downfall. Many wheels don't have bodywork as robust as the Veterans newer models. We could imagine all day all the different outcomes of a crash and what gets damaged. But my example was the energy transfer to a stanchion is more preferable than energy transfer to a battery case and the batteries inside which have a higher chance of getting damaged too. That was all.

Edited July 7 by The Brahan Seer
Clarify

[Duster]

11 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Price of the batteries potentially damaged too in a major crash. But perhaps you are over thinking things. It was a very general observation about a potential benefit and downfall. Many wheels don't have bodywork as robust as the Veterans newer models. We could imagine all day all the different outcomes of a crash and what gets damaged. But my example was the energy transfer to a stanchion is more preferable than energy transfer to a battery case and the batteries inside which have a higher chance of getting damaged too. That was all.

Ah, the battery thought makes sense.

I used the Veteran bodies as reference mostly because of the comparison most are making, and also because I figured they would be the most expensive body work to replace (right?). If I wanted to lose sleep, I'd look up the Commanders' parts, as they have similar suspension designs to the Veterans. I have been working on getting better sleep, though, so I'll pass on my opportunity to nerd-out.

Even as a general observation, though, $1000 is quite a lot to estimate without explicitly mentioning batteries. And an impact strong enough to damage a station or a durability-focused frame would likely cause enough shock to the batteries for me to consider replacing them some time after such a crash. So, that's probably why batteries didn't occur to me as unique to either design.

It's occurring to me now that it'd be pretty cool if King Song did some crash promo videos like Leaperkim did with the Patton. It could boost some riders' confidence in the F22!

[The Brahan Seer]

8 hours ago, Duster said:

Even as a general observation, though, $1000 is quite a lot to estimate without explicitly mentioning batteries.

Sorry, I just took it as a given that other people would understand or would be able to extrapolate what I mean't. Don't worry many don't! You can blame my INFJ if you like.

8 hours ago, Duster said:

And an impact strong enough to damage a station or a durability-focused frame would likely cause enough shock to the batteries for me to consider replacing them some time after such a crash. So, that's probably why batteries didn't occur to me as unique to either design.

Makes sense. We all think different, me especially.

8 hours ago, Duster said:

It's occurring to me now that it'd be pretty cool if King Song did some crash promo videos like Leaperkim did with the Patton. It could boost some riders' confidence in the F22!

True!, Wrongway et al will also put it through its paces and highlight any weaknesses very quickly too i imagine.

[Rawnei]

Some more details that I didn't see in the thread already, F22 seems to come with SKF bearings that's a nice touch, also tile magnet motor with 38mm wide magnets.

https://www.facebook.com/kingsong.international/posts/pfbid036iWavWKh48fx6m1msKzWNKUeVaixMHjuGhaGKNA2Z1EBb5os68ZW93miqR9m5kZVl

https://www.facebook.com/kingsong.international/posts/pfbid02XS1B5wscGK5R3cfiT9ssVFN5Xjj17Gw68dnnAcW5JHnvTG5LZzJBjRYWHDaaTKfal

[Frolic0415]

^ All of the specs and info can be found here: https://kingsong.com/product/ks-f22/

[YCC]

Look forward to seeing the real world test of F22. Wish Kingsong are able to catch the eyes this time in 2024. In my view, I can see they put lots of effort on this “new” wheel. 

[Duster]

5 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

True!, Wrongway et al will also put it through its paces and highlight any weaknesses very quickly too i imagine

Oh, man, I didn't think of that. That'll be a very intense trial (and that's assuming he doesn't learn any new tricks, which we all know he's going to). I feel sorry for the F22 that gets into Adam's hands 😨

[YCC]

On 7/5/2024 at 4:45 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

Is there a release date for the F22? If not, any guesses when it will be available?

Some news said they will be ready for shipping on October. 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, YCC said:

Some news said they will be ready for shipping on October. 

That's interesting. I wonder if this will coincide with the shipping of the Griffin by then.

The Sherman-L doesn't compete with these wheels anyways, and Leaper Kim only release one new wheel a year.

So the Lynx will have to fend for itself in order to keep its crown.

Once the F22 and the Griffin are out, batch one issue complaints will follow. But that's not a biggie, since there will still be plenty of time for the bugs be stomped out before the new season starts.

[YCC]

On the other hand, does anyone have the news of F22 pro with 176.4V charging voltage? Is this a rumor or a truth? 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, YCC said:

On the other hand, does anyone have the news of F22 pro with 176.4V charging voltage? Is this a rumor or a truth? 

Wait a minute. There is a "pro" version?

Ahh. The larger capacity, and higher speed version to compete with the likes of the ET Max and GT Pro?

Assuming Samsung 50S cells, and if Kingsong is sticking with the 4P configuration and go higher voltage, then battery capacity increases.

42 cells x 4.2V = 176.4 V

42 cells x 5Ah x 3.7V x 4 = 3108 Wh.

 

[Ronin]

2 hours ago, YCC said:

On the other hand, does anyone have the news of F22 pro with 176.4V charging voltage? Is this a rumor or a truth? 

 I was told by a source about a Pro but without details. This to me is credible considering their past wheels. No specs though.

[Anthraksi]

James also mentioned on FB about a 176v version

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/7794812860616609/

 

This would be somewhat interesting. Next gen mobility also has the F22 listed as 3300$, which might just save this wheel.

 

https://www.nextgenmobility.org/products/101

[WheelGoodTime]

26 minutes ago, Anthraksi said:

James also mentioned on FB about a 176v version

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/7794812860616609/

 

This would be somewhat interesting. Next gen mobility also has the F22 listed as 3300$, which might just save this wheel.

 

https://www.nextgenmobility.org/products/101

The 176v part was in error - KS blindsided everyone at the last second because they were originally planning to make it 176v.

 

Also, to save this wheel, KS has said that the final weight may be down to 45kg when it is shipped. They seem to be listening to the backlash from everyone after they said it'd be 50kg.

 

This wheel is heavy, no doubt. But if they can shave 10 lbs off of it, it'll make this wheel much more palatable to the masses.

 

The problem is that they are charging dealers the same wholesale price for the F22 that LK is charging for the lynx. And the question is asked: does this command the same price tag as the Lynx? My thoughts are no, especially if it is 50kg. But for $500 less than a lynx, it'd be a hard "maybe" from me, and the value increases even more if the weight is lowered and this wheel's electronics prove to be bulletproof.

[techyiam]

At NextGenMoblility:

Pre-order Griffin is priced at $3200 USD

Pre-order F22 is priced at $3300 USD

Lynx is priced at $3800 USD

Can't wait to try out the F22 and the Griffin.

[The Brahan Seer]

More details out, aviation aluminium handles, comes with seat cushion, Bluetooth 5.1, waterproof seal for motherboard and has adjustable front light plus the rest...

Edited July 9 by The Brahan Seer

[YCC]

Does anyone has the real world testing video of F22? 

[EDCampstore]

After looking at the specs, it seems like this wheel is intended as a streeted-out version of the S22. With only 90 mm of travel, and over 100 pounds, you’ll likely be mostly limited to fire roads and non-technical single track. Having said that, with 4 fork tubes, this might end up being one of the most plush street rods available! Like a turbo’d Lincoln town car

I don’t think I like the battery cycle spec though:

500 charging cycles with power maintained above 70%

Seems to me it is saying your max battery capacity will fall to 70% after only 500 cycles - That doesn’t seem that great for such a large, expensive battery.