Begode Blitz 2400wh: 134V, 20", 79lbs

[InMoOnGoWa75012]

59 minutes ago, EMA said:

assuming that a c32 perform worst/better than any other motor is pure speculation, people like to complain without even ride the wheel, this is nuts imho.

not to mention that most of the wheels we have on the market right now can climb 35/40 degree on reviews, something that you'll never find in a real world scenario lol

Agree with you : an old wheel like the EX.n with old C30 motor works perfectly fine in Paris traffic

[Tomallo]

4 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Maybe for lighter riders it doesn't make a big difference but for a heavy rider such as myself I can feel a difference between modern wheels actually, we (2 heavy riders) compared EX30 with C40 motor in off-road mode with Lynx for example and could feel the difference, was more effortless with Lynx.

I'm curious, what's the method of determining which motor is strained more during a steep hill climb? PWM? Or maybe you can hear it by the noise the motor makes? (I'd assume it'd be associated with smoothness of rotation, as in sometimes you can hear the "steps" magnets are making, like when it's close to skipping the magnets.).

I don't think I've seen anybody showing/monitoring the PWM during a hill climb; could that be used? Now, I know it'll probably also depend on the speed of the climb, but maybe it would be feasible to make runs between two wheels close enough to arrive at a conclusion this way?

[Rawnei]

6 minutes ago, Tomallo said:

I'm curious, what's the method of determining which motor is strained more during a steep hill climb? PWM? Or maybe you can hear it by the noise the motor makes? (I'd assume it'd be associated with smoothness of rotation, as in sometimes you can hear the "steps" magnets are making, like when it's close to skipping the magnets.).

I don't think I've seen anybody showing/monitoring the PWM during a hill climb; could that be used? Now, I know it'll probably also depend on the speed of the climb, but maybe it would be feasible to make runs between two wheels close enough to arrive at a conclusion this way?

You can both feel (how much effort it takes from rider and how fast you can accelerate on the incline) and hear if the motor is struggling, I don't think monitoring PWM is useful.

To give you an extreme example, climb something steep with a 100V C30 speed wheel, it will struggle and maybe even skip magnets, it will be very obvious both from feeling and sound that it is struggling if it doesn't give up all together.

[Ronin]

6 hours ago, EMA said:

assuming that a c32 perform worst/better than any other motor is pure speculation, people like to complain without even ride the wheel, this is nuts imho.

not to mention that most of the wheels we have on the market right now can climb 35/40 degree on reviews, something that you'll never find in a real world scenario lol

💯. People love to find trouble on these new wheels. The low end torque is mainly noticeable in a city environment where u would need to stop and take off fast frequently, with cars behind you. Even then its still a good performance, but we are spoiled with eucs like the lynx or et max with their great torque. Begode released a test fw to increase the torque but the wheel was already shipped when i got inquired to test it. 

Edited August 28 by Ronin

[EMA]

1 hour ago, Tomallo said:

I'm curious, what's the method of determining which motor is strained more during a steep hill climb? PWM? Or maybe you can hear it by the noise the motor makes? (I'd assume it'd be associated with smoothness of rotation, as in sometimes you can hear the "steps" magnets are making, like when it's close to skipping the magnets.).

I don't think I've seen anybody showing/monitoring the PWM during a hill climb; could that be used? Now, I know it'll probably also depend on the speed of the climb, but maybe it would be feasible to make runs between two wheels close enough to arrive at a conclusion this way?

PWM get some spikes when you push the wheel at low speed but as @Rawnei it's not a great reference.

if you try a steep incline with different wheels you can feel the difference on your own, old 100v c30 wheel struggle with heavy riders while 100v c38 was a huge step up in climbing abilities

heavier wheels also suffers more at low speed while 16" for example, with the lower leverage/gear, goes up easier compared to a similar 18"

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, Ronin said:

💯. People love to find trouble on these new wheels. The low end torque is mainly noticeable in a city environment where u would need to stop and take off fast frequently, with cars behind you. Even then its still a good performance, but we are spoiled with eucs like the lynx or et max with their great torque. Begode released a test fw to increase the torque but the wheel was already shipped when i got inquired to test it. 

I think people just trying their best to make informed decisions, it's difficult when the information is sometimes false or saturated with subjective opinions.

[Ronin]

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I think people just trying their best to make informed decisions, it's difficult when the information is sometimes false or saturated with subjective opinions.

Agreed💯

[InMoOnGoWa75012]

One blitz to rule them all

This night, in Paris, on my fluorescent yellow EX.n, saw two leaperkim (patton or lynx or Sherman S) on bicycle lane

[Max B]

12 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Maybe for lighter riders it doesn't make a big difference but for a heavy rider such as myself I can feel a difference between modern wheels actually, we (2 heavy riders) compared EX30 with C40 motor in off-road mode with Lynx for example and could feel the difference, was more effortless with Lynx.

I weigh 240 pounds (110 kg) and I don't like that I have to push Lynx to move, it doesn't roll. EX30 is also difficult, there is not enough dynamics due to inertia, the best and most responsive thing I have tried so far is Master v4. Blitz is clearly superior

[Rawnei]

33 minutes ago, Max B said:

I weigh 240 pounds (110 kg) and I don't like that I have to push Lynx to move, it doesn't roll. EX30 is also difficult, there is not enough dynamics due to inertia, the best and most responsive thing I have tried so far is Master v4. Blitz is clearly superior

Then clearly we have completely different experiences, I'm slightly above 110kg geared and have no problem to get going on my Lynx.

Edited August 28 by Rawnei

[WheelGoodTime]

1 hour ago, Max B said:

I weigh 240 pounds (110 kg) and I don't like that I have to push Lynx to move, it doesn't roll. EX30 is also difficult, there is not enough dynamics due to inertia, the best and most responsive thing I have tried so far is Master v4. Blitz is clearly superior

that's a very odd thing to hear. The Lynx is extremely eager to "move", as is the EX30. My guess is that you have the pedal settings set too hard, and your pads are not adjusted correctly to facilitate hard accelerations. Set that baby to soft mode and see what kind of magic you can accomplish. The Master v4 and the EX30 are excellent at acceleration, and I'm sure the blitz is good too. But the Lynx is... well... *chef's kiss*

[techyiam]

@Max B

1 hour ago, Max B said:

I weigh 240 pounds (110 kg) and I don't like that I have to push Lynx to move, it doesn't roll. EX30 is also difficult, there is not enough dynamics due to inertia, the best and most responsive thing I have tried so far is Master v4. Blitz is clearly superior

I see in your profile that you also have an S16 Pro. 

How does the S16 Pro compare to your Master v4 in this regard? 

[Max B]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

@Max B

I see in your profile that you also have an S16 Pro. 

How does the S16 Pro compare to your Master v4 in this regard? 

The S16 Pro accelerates well because its pedals are shifted forward relative to the wheel center, it has a very brisk acceleration, but unfortunately I quickly reach the wheel limits and dip, which does not happen with the Master V4. Therefore, I would say that at low revs the S16 copes better than the Master in Race mode, but unfortunately after both pick up speed the S16 is very inferior in dynamics and torque to the Master. Regarding the Lynx, a very tight wheel that requires disproportionately more effort to extract torque from it, the Master V4 rides itself, I do not have to persuade it and kick it. I rode more than 7000 km on it, and tried both motors, the C38 and C40, as well as two firmware on it, the original Master V4 and the EX30. I can definitely say that the algorithms of the Master and the EX30 are different and the control of the Master on the EX30 firmware and the EX30 itself is also different. If we take only this comparison between them, then the greatest inertia and effort that needs to be applied is on the original EX30, the EX30 has very stiff algorithms even in a race mode, then comes the Master on the EX30 firmware with C40, the algorithms also don't allow the wheel to tilt too much, they feel tighter and stiffer, it loses the inertia from the weight, but retains the algorithm for a hard applied effort for acceleration, even in the race mode (I ride on the medium pedals). The same feeling is from ET Max, the ET Max just does not lower the pedals under the effort, only when you already reach a certain speed, which is not the case on the Master. The only algorithm that I liked in terms of the speed of reaction to the force and the correspondence of the wheel tilt to the force is the original Master algorithm both on the C38 and on the C40 (even with the firmware from the C38). According to the data we have been testing, Blitz has the same race mode algorithm as the original Master, which cannot but please. I think you can hear a bit of this in Zen Lee video. Also, all of the above has nothing to do with soft pedals and the principle of their operation, since the pedal mode does not adjust to pressure, it works according to a given algorithm in a primitive way, this is not the same as what is described above.

While we are waiting for the HT motors and the results of the algorithms on them, but from what we have so far, the Blitz really has a good race mod, which is very clearly separated in behavior from the off-road mode, where in the off-road mode the wheel becomes rigid, but very controllable, like the control on the ET Max, EX30, Lynx, but the race mode completely changes the behavior of the wheel and the reaction to the applied force, which does not happen with the ET Max and other wheels (except the OG Master)

Edited August 29 by Max B

[Eyss]

22 hours ago, EMA said:

assuming that a c32 perform worst/better than any other motor is pure speculation, people like to complain without even ride the wheel, this is nuts im

All things being equal, a c40 motor will perform better than a c32. Bigger motor = more power. 

But the blitz c32 and the standard c40 motor are not equal. 

My complaint was mainly around the lack of specs other than just the magnet width. I would love to get a stage where motors have all measurements available like esk8 motors, or all dyno measurements on just the motors 

[Rawnei]

3 hours ago, Max B said:

Regarding the Lynx, a very tight wheel that requires disproportionately more effort to extract torque from it

Sounds like a you problem.

The Lynx has so much torque that is easily accessible that we have to hold back in the skatepark to not vastly overshoot obstacles, this is good news for a heavy rider as we don't have to worry about having enough torque.

[daniel1234]

45 minutes ago, Eyss said:

All things being equal, a c40 motor will perform better than a c32. Bigger motor = more power. 

But the blitz c32 and the standard c40 motor are not equal. 

My complaint was mainly around the lack of specs other than just the magnet width. I would love to get a stage where motors have all measurements available like esk8 motors, or all dyno measurements on just the motors 

I completely agree that only dyno measuring can reveal truth behind all claims. I dont think that begode makes that motors themself. 

It is visible on factory tours that begode have their own dyno, shame that they don't publish numerical results/ tests. Seems they have different mindset in china ...
Bigger doesn't always mean better because of spinning mass inertia. Magnet shape and gap matters a lot as well - they claim improvement in that.

Fun story -> I can push continuously(30min) 5kw through c38 on my scooter on 100 V with 180A phase amps without reaching his thermal limits in summer. I hope I will get access to more begode motors to compare them on the same platform.  I would like to see directly how those weight savings affect acceleration and regenerative braking. If fancy materials like magnesium are worth their price in the motor. 

[Max B]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Sounds like a you problem.

The Lynx has so much torque that is easily accessible that we have to hold back in the skatepark to not vastly overshoot obstacles, this is good news for a heavy rider as we don't have to worry about having enough torque.

This is not only my problem, this is what exists in the community among those who ride both Begode and Lynx. I am not talking about the amount of torque on the ramp, and the overboost error, when the Lynx dips it simply goes into wheel spin mode, I am talking about control on the road and compliance, access to torque without kicking the wheel on the road, about easy transitions between speeds when overtaking cars and dynamic driving. I don't argue that after the S22 or Sherman-S, the Lynx seems like a new level in terms of responsiveness and dynamics, and it is, but if you look at it more broadly, unfortunately, this is not the case. And I am very glad that Blitz inherited the best algorithms from Master, as this is good competition for what is already on the market

[Rawnei]

7 minutes ago, Max B said:

This is not only my problem, this is what exists in the community among those who ride both Begode and Lynx. I am not talking about the amount of torque on the ramp, and the overboost error, when the Lynx dips it simply goes into wheel spin mode, I am talking about control on the road and compliance, access to torque without kicking the wheel on the road, about easy transitions between speeds when overtaking cars and dynamic driving. I don't argue that after the S22 or Sherman-S, the Lynx seems like a new level in terms of responsiveness and dynamics, and it is, but if you look at it more broadly, unfortunately, this is not the case. And I am very glad that Blitz inherited the best algorithms from Master, as this is good competition for what is already on the market

It's not, you're not a spokesperson for the community, I am also the community.

I recognize you from Telegram now, you make a lot of absolute statements and dismiss everyone else.

Edited August 29 by Rawnei

[Max B]

Ronnie, you started a fight in the Ningning group that is still going on, you were hysterical because three riders disagreed with you, the admin wrote to me in PM not knowing what to do, ban it to stop the fight or not, I understand that you are part of the community, but you have to understand that what you say and think is not absolutely true, somehow you have to live with the opinions of other people. This was my opinion, you have yours, someone else has theirs, I'm ok with that

[InMoOnGoWa75012]

5 hours ago, Max B said:

I can definitely say that the algorithms of the Master and the EX30 are different and the control of the Master on the EX30 firmware and the EX30 itself is also different. If we take only this comparison between them, then the greatest inertia and effort that needs to be applied is on the original EX30, the EX30 has very stiff algorithms even in a race mode, then comes the Master on the EX30 firmware with C40, the algorithms also don't allow the wheel to tilt too much, they feel tighter and stiffer, it loses the inertia from the weight, but retains the algorithm for a hard applied effort for acceleration, even in the race mode (I ride on the medium pedals).

Ride my EX30 in soft/offroad mode and agree with you about behavior : this wheel act like a train/truck

Caused by weight, gravity center and gyroscopic force, I guess ... EX.n act like a small wheel in comparison

Hope that Blitz = EX.n behavior + suspension + more power

[techyiam]

17 minutes ago, Max B said:

Ronnie, you started a fight in the Ningning group that is still going on, you were hysterical because three riders disagreed with you, the admin wrote to me in PM not knowing what to do, ban it to stop the fight or not, I understand that you are part of the community, but you have to understand that what you say and think is not absolutely true, somehow you have to live with the opinions of other people. This was my opinion, you have yours, someone else has theirs, I'm ok with that

Each of you provided a data point. It is up to the viewers to decide which data point is of use to them. It could be all, one, or none.

@Rawnei provided a data point for the case in which riders in his locale felt that their Lynx's provided sufficiently easy access to torque in a skate park setting. Whereas, @Max B provided a data point on the comparative differences between the Master v4, EX30, and the Lynx for ease of acceleration and regulation of torque output in order to improve traction for his use-case.

 

[Rawnei]

26 minutes ago, Max B said:

Ronnie, you started a fight in the Ningning group that is still going on, you were hysterical because three riders disagreed with you, the admin wrote to me in PM not knowing what to do, ban it to stop the fight or not, I understand that you are part of the community, but you have to understand that what you say and think is not absolutely true, somehow you have to live with the opinions of other people. This was my opinion, you have yours, someone else has theirs, I'm ok with that

That is funny, because what I said is that we have different experiences, you are the one who can not cope with that, you disregard my experience and come up with pseudo science that fits your experience and refers to what the "community" thinks to further bolster your opinion.

What you're doing is borderline ruling-technique, it's super ugly.

[techyiam]

4 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

That is funny, because what I said is that we have different experiences, you are the one who can not cope with that, you disregard my experience and come up with pseudo science that fits your experience and refers to what the "community" thinks to further bolster your opinion.

What you're doing is borderline ruling-technique, it's super ugly.

@Max B did not attack the validity of your data point. However, you did attack his.

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Sounds like a you problem.

 

 

What is interesting is that both of you champion the euc that you own, which happens to be polar opposite. 

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

@Max B did not attack the validity of your data point. However, you did attack his.

 

 

What is interesting is that both of you champion the euc that you own, which happens to be polar opposite. 

I don't champion anything, that is you reading into things, nowhere in here will you read that I wrote that wheel X is better than wheel Y, I'm just sharing my experience, we were discussing the potential torque on the Blitz the discussion wasn't about the Lynx at all but it was brought up by @Max B that Lynx torque was difficult to access which me (and my fellow riders) don't agree with.

You say I attack his data point, no, I strongly disagree with his explanations, he makes up pseudo science arguments to support why he thinks the way he does, he can not simply just stay with his opinion based on his subjective experience, he has to explain why everyone else is wrong in theirs, do you see the difference?

[EMA]

same old story when people talk about torque and wheels...nothing new 

people also understimate a lot how much the weight ruin/limit the performance of a wheel, that's the main reason why heavier wheels require way more effort and skill to achieve the "same things", specially the technical ones