Funky Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) So today i noticed while breaking or starting to ride. I hear a big "tuck/tug" noise and it feels like motor itself is moving little bit. The play is about ~0.5mm i think.. (When i try to move whole euc body like braking forwards/backwards with force, i can feel it moving little bit.) (One possibility is that pedals have gotten loose..) Should i open the motor, to check if the little welding "dots" have broken? And only thing that holds motor in place is the axle "key" grove itself? Does 18xl even have that key grove on axle? What do you think guys? Is that possibility that those 2x dot welds have broken? (And if they are broken. Is it alright to weld few new dots..? Should i remove the wiring? Or is it alright to leave them. After each new dot weld letting it cool off.) Looking at other side, i don't see any dot welds. It looks like it completely welded all round? Or maybe the magnets themselves that are on rim? Can they move? (These are older images taken before..) Other side: Bigger images of both sides: Edited April 20, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 53 minutes ago, Funky said: One possibility is that pedals have gotten loose.. Before you get ahead of yourself and start disassembling the motor and welding the axle, how about tightening the pedals first…? Dunno, just a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 20, 2023 Author Share Posted April 20, 2023 52 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Before you get ahead of yourself and start disassembling the motor and welding the axle, how about tightening the pedals first…? Dunno, just a suggestion. Ofc... Doh both sides coming loose at same time, i don't know. Can the axle even move, if those two dot welds break? The other side looks like it's welded all around. Or am i missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, Funky said: Ofc... Doh both sides coming loose at same time, i don't know. Nor will you, until you check. There are also the pedal hanger bolts that can get loose. Both of these are a few orders of magnitude more common than the motor weldings snapping off, especially on the 18XL. 11 minutes ago, Funky said: Can the axle even move, if those two dot welds break? Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 20, 2023 Author Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, mrelwood said: weldings snapping off, especially on the 18XL. Before i notice the "slippage", i was doing pendulum. (Quiet aggressively in my mind? Then again i don't jump even curbs, so who knows what's aggressive is..) So welds may have broken.. Edited April 20, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) Good & Bad news.. Good - i think i found the issue. Bad - i was right and the both dot welds have a hair line fracture. If i try to move the axle little bit by force. The hair line gap becomes bigger. You can literally see the gap. (I knew right from the start - the feeling came from motor.) Question? If i add extra 4-6x dot welds all around the original welds. Should the wiring be removed. (To remove the wiring, it will be pain in butt.. As they are siliconed in the axle. And the connection will need to be cut and later reconnected.) Should i try 1 dot a time, with plenty of time to let the axle/wire cool off? I have never welded anything with copper wires between. My guess the heat would be to high for the wires? But dot welds also? Edited April 21, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 I would remove the wires and put 4 tack welds around the shaft base. You may be able to get away with not doing that but the chance of melting the wire coating is high and not worth the risk. It doesn't look like it will be easy to remove them. Question, is the full weld on the opposite side broken as well? Isn't the shaft one piece through the hub? Plus, i would do a better job than the tack welds in the picture. The factory welds don't have very good penetration, they should have turned up the heat on those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said: Question, is the full weld on the opposite side broken as well? Isn't the shaft one piece through the hub? It looks like its one piece.. But only thing holding in the axle are those 2x dot welds. (The side with no dot welds - looks like it's simply push true. "Stair" like ending so it doesn't go all true the motor.) I imagine it has a key grove in middle.. Because i could feel the axle moving forwards/backwards as i was breaking or starting to go. (Changing ride direction.) The small wires could be easily cut/removed and then reconnected as they each has different color. (Can't make any mistakes.) The motor wires themselves are different story.. (The 3 fat wires.) They aren't color coded. And i imagine they need to be placed back into connection the same way as they where. (The yellow connection.) Edited April 21, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 20 minutes ago, Funky said: placed back into connection the same way as they where. Yes, the phase wires definitely need to go back the same. I think they are molex pins in that plug , you should be able to use a tool to remove them from the plug and just mark them but you have to get the right size tool, there are several different diameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 Does it even matter which section/place you place those 3 motor wires back in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Just now, Funky said: Does it even matter which section/place you place those 3 motor wires back in? yes, because each one of them energizes a different set of coils in sequence in order to spin the wheel forward and back. If they are out of order it wont energize the correct ones. It takes the information from the hall sensors to determine what position the rotor is in and energizes the coil set accordingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 Phase wires are color coded already.. Only option is to cut wire somewhere in middle. Color code both ends for the motor wires. And afterwards pushing new cable in and reconnecting them. (Middle of wire patch.) As the original wires will be damaged anyways trying to get them out.. Nothing hard to do.. Just a hassle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 The phase (motor) wires are the thick ones. It's a 3 phase brushless outrunner dc motor. The small colored wires are for the Hall sensors. This is a rudimentary picture of one without hall sensors but it shows the stator coils connected to the big wires. Each one is considered a (phase). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) Will try first with wires... Quick multiple dots following wet cloth for not to fast cooling. Will check afterwards with multimeter, if anything has gone high-wire. At least then i will not need to worry, as i'm already ducked up. Edited April 21, 2023 by Funky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 ~1 hr latter welds complete.. Wires didn't even melt. Welded whole back side between original 2 dot welds.. Added even 2 dot welds other side. Good luck breaking now. I get that those 2 dot welds are to easily remove broken axle.. But 2 dot welds holding everything together, is simply way to little. Some testing and tomorrow i will put it together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 (edited) There's also possibility of stator slippage.. (Doh has that happened to 18xl before?) But i imagine if that happened, it would move much more than ~5mm back and forwards, when changing riding directions. And wires would have already been torn off.. We will see. Edited April 21, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 23, 2023 Author Share Posted April 23, 2023 (edited) As i had finished siliconing.. Adding thread lock to each motor cover screw and adding pedals.. I hear a scraping sound inside the motor.... (Duck My Life.) Gotta reopen whole motor again. (2hrs wasted cleaning old silicone off and reapplying new. Same for crews, cleaning off old thread lock..) Had to push the stator out of rim. Guess what i found. A sugar sized two small welding balls. Somehow the magnets had catch some welding sparks. (Even doh i had covered them.) The size of them where so small, that they could enter the stator/magnet gap. Some hours later reclosing everything. And wheel is working. No more slippage. (At least for now.) Edited April 23, 2023 by Funky 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted April 23, 2023 Author Share Posted April 23, 2023 (edited) On 4/21/2023 at 2:20 PM, Punxatawneyjoe said: The factory welds don't have very good penetration, they should have turned up the heat on those. Forgot to mention the fracture happened right between the welds. So penetration was okay, as both parts had half of a weld left. I don't see the new welds breaking anytime soon. Because as i mentioned - i welded almost all round the axle. (Added even 3 more dot welds on the other side, where it didn't have any welds.) Afterwards going over with "anti rust" paint/glue type liquid. Where metal turns black in color. (Normally used for painting car bottoms..) I don't see any possibility for water to get inside motor, but better safe than sorry. Edited April 23, 2023 by Funky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 Literally the same thing that happened in this topic: Same cracks in welds. And same noise while riding forwards/backwards in videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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