Crab Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 So I’m 64 and currently healing from a recent rib injury unrelated to riding, 180 lbs and probably won’t ride over 25ish mph. Speed isn’t really my thing however I do like acceleration and hard braking, mostly pavement or good packed trails. Most likely a street tire, I do really want suspension for ease on my knees. Currently on a 16x and do like it, also like seated riding at times. Both wheels about same price, Master has upgraded Litech battery choices now at Ewheels where I will most likely purchase, not certain which type if I go that route. S22 will have all the updated parts and the new street tire they have been testing if I do the KS. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) I would wait for the "upgraded" sliders for S22..(The CNC 16 wheels per side thingy.) Best option in my eyes. Otherwise Master. But master suspension has it's own problems.. Still both bad. (But that's me..) Edited December 13, 2022 by Funky 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufnman Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 What about bolts? Does anyone have a size/type/quantity list of replacement screws for this S22? I am getting ready for a strip down. Not looking forward to heating up and stripping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Mufnman said: What about bolts? Does anyone have a size/type/quantity list of replacement screws for this S22? I am getting ready for a strip down. Not looking forward to heating up and stripping out. Unscrew - measure. Go buy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Funky said: I would wait for the "upgraded" sliders for S22..(The CNC 16 wheels per side thingy.) Best option in my eyes. Otherwise Master. But master suspension has it's own problems.. Still both bad. (But that's me..) According to Jason, the new S22 batch will ship with sliders installed and choice of tire. Edited December 13, 2022 by Crab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Crab said: According to Jason, the new S22 batch will ship with sliders installed and choice of tire. These sliders right? (Check video). And motor also pinned? -If yes i would go with S22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Think someone mentioned in one of the threads, that some boards are failing, even under low stress. And the new slider wheels can break, and candling them will help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 He just said new slider kits and new motors with the upgraded street tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Mufnman said: What about bolts? Does anyone have a size/type/quantity list of replacement screws for this S22? I am getting ready for a strip down. Not looking forward to heating up and stripping out. I just got a kit with 20x of various sizes from M3 to M6. Didn't actually replace any though, mine didn't have any that were stripped and if I didn't need to remove them I just checked them for tightness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Crab said: Thoughts? Master is faster and suspension is tuned for super comfy on the streets so it will bottom out easily. But it's fragile and needs several hundred dollars of personalization to maybe not break as easily. It's also iterating quickly so replacement parts are a bit of a mess (what goes with which version etc.) With a fixed motor and roller sliders, S22 should have a similar small bump ride as Master and do better in drops higher than a curb. It'll also be more durable out of the box. Master will be faster, no question about it. Edited December 14, 2022 by Tawpie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tawpie said: Master is faster and suspension is tuned for super comfy on the streets so it will bottom out easily. But it's fragile and needs several hundred dollars of personalization to maybe not break as easily. It's also iterating quickly so replacement parts are a bit of a mess (what goes with which version etc.) With a fixed motor and roller sliders, S22 should have a similar street ride as Master and do better in drops higher than a curb. It'll also be more durable out of the box. Master will be faster, no question about it. Riding 25mph both same even at 35mph.. Yeah master are very fragile. Have you seen those battery "casings"? I think a pepsi can does better job at protecting the battery.. One side drop and that thin plastic will crack. Also suspension need a lot of work - because of bottoming out. Easily ~500$-1000$ (Don't know actually how much to get new back suspension.) extra to get an actually good wheel. S22 is simply better option in this case. Specially if he gets the upgraded suspension on it. Doh i don't like that "slick" tire. But that's personal choice. He needs to have a look at Sherman-S. If that's an option. Everyone loves it's suspension. And if he isn't going off-road, etc.. Most minuses that people have said are avoided. Yeah it costs "extra".. But if you gonna buy something - buy right one from the start. Edited December 14, 2022 by Funky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 23 minutes ago, Funky said: S22 is simply better option in this case. Specially if he gets the upgraded suspension on it. Doh i don't like that "slick" tire. But that's personal choice. He needs to have a look at Sherman-S. If that's an option. Everyone loves it's suspension. And if he isn't going off-road, etc.. Most minuses that people have said are avoided. Yeah it costs "extra".. But if you gonna buy something - buy right one from the start. So I have ridden the s22 with the oem knobby, did not enjoy the twitchy turning when it’s leaned over on the outboard knobs. I have been following the Sherman-s thread, I like everything about it except the weight and it just being released. 20 lb difference is a lot, yea the higher range would be nice but I think the s22 may be ok. Since my other buddy’s ride s22 and rs-hs we would most likely bring chargers for extended rides. I have not been on the master, plenty of power and speed but even with the upgraded batteries I do wonder about safety? Did not know the suspension isn’t that great… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Crab said: I do wonder about safety? BG hasn't really had a fire problem since their early 900 Wh packs (recalled by eWheels but no other distributor in the world, and not by BG)... so I wouldn't necessarily ding them for that. As to S22 feeling like it's falling over, that's partly the tire and (IMO) largely because the weight distribution is different. You can only lean it so far over before the center of gravity gets beyond the ability of centripetal force to counter. When you're turning sharply and leaning to do it, you have to be going faster because there's more weight up high. I'm learning, it's not bad. It does require a technique change... but it's a different wheel than 16X. It's more of a crank it over AND STEP ON THE GAS kind of turn, trusting that punching it will cause the wheel to pull up underneath you (it does, but it feels different—it's kind of flowy after you get the technique down) I haven't ridden a Master but wouldn't be at all surprised to have it feel tippy as well. My S18 (TR1 tire) scared the poopoo out of me before I got used to turning it. Edited December 14, 2022 by Tawpie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Funky said: One side drop and that thin plastic will crack. Nah, that's an exaggeration. Mine has fallen on its side at least 5 times and plastic remains totally fine. Sure, it's not the most robust system in the world, but if you're padded up OK either with stock pads or something else, its minimal risk from small drops. It is quite vulnerable to big, high speed tumbling crashes though, unless fortified with fairings and bumpers and whatnot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tawpie said: I haven't ridden a Master but wouldn't be at all surprised to have it feel tippy as well. Yes, that is tippy to the max on the stock tyre because of tyre profile but made worse by high CoG caused by mega-high pedals (almost at wheel axle level) and top-heaviness of machine, which accentuates it. Initially weird and slightly terrifying, but you soon get used to it. If you go with the lean, it doesn't actually tip you, and if you resist it, it behaves consistently, is managable and you get used to it in about a month ! I actually have a Michelin city Extra sitting here unfitted that I ordered when I first got the Master and hated the CST 186, but as I have got used to that stock tyre I have come to appreciate its insane grip during the winter months - it is certainly much better than the street tyre on my MS3 when it comes to getting solid grip in wet leaves or deeper mud, and so I have left mine on, and it will probably stay that way until next Summer. Edited December 14, 2022 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 Just thinking about "why haven't I ridden a Master yet"? I'm not exactly the most social rider, but I think I've only actually seen one in the area. The trail riders seem to all be S22, the fast and furious are on Sherman/Shermax with a small assortment of older GWs thrown into the mix (EX.N, Monster Pro). I actually don't think I know of anyone that rides Master in these parts—there has to be some riders, it is not a "bad" wheel by any means... but Master is definitely not as popular as I might have expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, Cerbera said: Nah, that's an exaggeration. Mine has fallen on its side at least 5 times and plastic remains totally fine. Sure, it's not the most robust system in the world, but if you're padded up OK either with stock pads or something else, its minimal risk from small drops. It is quite vulnerable to big, high speed tumbling crashes though, unless fortified with fairings and bumpers and whatnot. Have you check the screw holes? It normally cracks there. And in that small crack water gets in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 54 minutes ago, Funky said: Have you check the screw holes? It normally cracks there. And in that small crack water gets in. Yes I checked those bits first. My packs are taped though, and covered in additional bumper strip, so I think that would save them most of the time. Yes, we have seen photos in the past of these pieces cracked all to hell, but I believe that is still the exception rather than the rule, and if memory serves correctly, the machine that had the horrible damage there had been significantly crashed more than once... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) Yeah you need knobby tire that has mix/mash the knobbs around. Not in rows.. If knobbies are in rows. You need to go past some angle and then it feels like you fall on next knobby row. Knobby tires that have those rows are kinda bad.. Because when turning you need to "hop" to next row.. But if knobbies goes one upper, next lower position - you won't have that "hop" problem. That's why i love my K66 tire and i only ride asphalt. Edited December 14, 2022 by Funky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 Cerbera, have you also been on the s22? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 56 minutes ago, Crab said: Cerbera, have you also been on the s22? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Funky said: Yeah you need knobby tire that has mix/mash the knobbs around. Not in rows.. If knobbies are in rows. You need to go past some angle and then it feels like you fall on next knobbie row. Stock tire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Crab said: Stock tire? Yip. Initially I thought the stock had knobs aligned everywhere, but on checking mine it is like that. Edited December 14, 2022 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) Just now, Crab said: Stock tire? Rows - at turning it will tip on outer row - little bit of falling feeling. Edited December 14, 2022 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 Master looks more comfortable for seat riding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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