Downhill MB vs Eskate vs Motocross Helmets?

[Pooscout]

Hello,

Which types of helmet is safest or best for EUC? I was looking into the TSG Pass and Predator DH6-Xg but the position of your chin is too close compared to mountain biking/dirt bike helmets from Leatt, POC, Bell, etc. I am not sure if it's better to have your chin closer to the helmet or not?

Would love to get inputs from you guys. If there is already discussions about this, please give me links because I cannot find it via the search button.

Thank you.

Best,

Pooscout

[Paul A]

 

55 pages.  1366 replies.  Might be helpful to read it all before deciding.....

 

[Pooscout]

15 minutes ago, Paul A said:

 

55 pages.  1366 replies.  Might be helpful to read it all before deciding.....

 

Exactly what I was looking for. 

Thank you!

[Tawpie]

I run the downhill certified Bell Super DH unless it's rainy, then I have an HJC i90 modular motorcycle helmet.

Why?

I want max field of view, and that's the Bell. But it doesn't have a visor so when it's wet it's pretty miserable. I'd really like a visored moto helmet with wide field of view but not enough to go to the store and try them on. Too lazy.

Debate:

Many feel the removable chin bar of the Bell isn't as protective as a permanent chin bar and they're probably correct. If I rode faster, I'd be in a moto helmet because it should not come to pieces as I'm sliding on my face. But at the speeds I ride (20 mph cruise), I'm willing to accept the risk of the chin bar falling off after the first impact partly because you really don't slide that far at 20 mph. The removable chin bar on other Bells has been documented to break in a crash, I haven't heard of the Super DH breaking but it probably has. At sometime in the future I will likely be sorry about my choice... it vexes me.

Many also feel that you must have an ECE rated helmet and they have a point. More protection is a good idea. Watch some EUC wreck videos, the aftermath is different than it is on a motorcycle because the speeds are lower. The TSG is very popular around here and people have had some pretty gnarly falls in them—to my knowledge no notable brain injuries have been suffered even though the TSG isn't exceptionally well rated. Its only downside is it tends to fog up.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Tawpie

[Pooscout]

18 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I run the downhill certified Bell Super DH unless it's rainy, then I have an HJC i90 modular motorcycle helmet.

Why?

I want max field of view, and that's the Bell. But it doesn't have a visor so when it's wet it's pretty miserable. I'd really like a visored moto helmet with wide field of view but not enough to go to the store and try them on.

Debate:

Many feel the removable chin bar of the Bell isn't as protective as a permanent chin bar and they're probably correct. If I rode faster, I'd be in a moto helmet because it should not come to pieces as I'm sliding on my face. But at the speeds I ride (20 mph cruise), I'm willing to accept the risk of the chin bar falling off after the first impact. The removable chin bar on other Bells has been documented to break in a crash, I haven't heard of the Super DH breaking but it probably has.

Many also feel that you must have an ECE rated helmet and they have a point. More protection is a good idea. Watch some EUC wreck videos, the aftermath is different than it is on a motorcycle because the speeds are lower. The TSG is very popular around here and people have had some pretty gnarly falls in them—to my knowledge no notable brain injuries have been suffered even though the TSG isn't exceptionally well rated. Its only downside is it tends to fog up.

Is it possible to add/buy a visor for the bell Helmet? I really like the look of MB/Dirt Bike helmets but prefer having a visor over a goggle since I am already wearing glasses in the first place.

I looked up the ECE rated helmets certification which is the equivalent of DOT certification in the U.S. One thing that concern me about motorcycle helmet is that they don't have the MIPS technology that protect riders from concussion (I may be wrong). 

EUC feel like a hybrid between downhill mountain biking/dirt biking and motoGP/motorcycle, so it hard to get the right protective gears. 

I love the look of the TSG Pass, but I wonder if most wear them because they look cool or because they are good at protecting?

I am leaning toward the modular motorcycle helmet, but your HJC i90 is less expensive than your Bell Super DH?

I also love the look of the Leatt Moto 8.5 V22 https://leatt.com/us/product/helmet-kit-moto-8-5-v22?selected-color=5476

Thank you 

 

 

[UtahRider]

Any helmet w a chin guard is better protection than no helmet, imho. One thing I learned after cutout on my 16x is never wear motocross type goggles over the helmet. My major injury was the goggles split my check bone when I face planted so now I wear the smaller goggles around my head and helmet over them so they’re much less exposed.

[Pooscout]

1 minute ago, UtahRider said:

Any helmet w a chin guard is better protection than no helmet, imho. One thing I learned after cutout on my 16x is never wear motocross type goggles over the helmet. My major injury was the goggles split my check bone when I face planted so now I wear the smaller goggles around my head and helmet over them so they’re much less exposed.

Interesting, thanks for letting me know!

The EUC community is just so dang helpful!

[UtahRider]

I also love the look of the Leatt Moto 8.5 V22 https://leatt.com/us/product/helmet-kit-moto-8-5-v22?selected-color=5476
 

This is a cool looking helmet!

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, Pooscout said:

your HJC i90 is less expensive than your Bell Super DH?

It was way less expensive... got it used from another rider for $50 (he kinda has an unhealthy relationship with helmets and feared upsetting the domestic tranquility) . I did get the Super DH for a deal though, open box on fleabay.

The general consensus about ratings is that DOT is ancient and pretty meaningless. ECE is more up to date. There are other newer and more comprehensive testing protocols, but I don't know how applicable any of them are to an EUC vs moto accident. The proven benefit of MIPS is not clear to me... it makes a lot of sense but does it really help that much? Detractors say "skin" is your built-in MIPS. I don't know that there will ever be any hard science to prove or disprove the utility of MIPS, but I'm glad my Super DH has it. IMO, MIPS matters when you crash relatively slowly and especially if you crash on dirt. Dirt will grab your helmet more than pavement, and I think if you're really moving when you hit your helmet will bounce. But I have zero science to back that up!

BTW, the chin bar on a MTB helmet sticks out so far because (and watch some slo mo) when the chin bar hits, it forces the sides of the helmet apart and the chin bar deforms inward. Meantime your face is getting pressed toward the chin bar through the cheek pads. A moto helmet is almost always heavier and usually sturdier and generally fits much tighter so all that action is reduced somewhat. Plus, a true faceplant from a motorcycle is less common than going overbar on a mountain bike so the design isn't as focused on your teeth.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Tawpie

[0000]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I'm willing to accept the risk of the chin bar falling off after the first impact partly because you really don't slide that far at 20 mph. The removable chin bar on other Bells has been documented to break in a crash, I haven't heard of the Super DH breaking but it probably has. At sometime in the future I will likely be sorry about my choice... it vexes me.

Tawpie - I used to run a Giro Switchblade and thought it was neat I could take the chinbar off for snacks without taking off the helmet or run it without for less aggressive rides. Then one day I endo'd over my handlebars after failing to orient my bike properly off a gap jump.

I didn't slide far like you figured, but after the chinbar immediately flew off on impact (vague recollection, barely remember picking up this among other pieces) and parts of my face then got a dirt and stone makeover where I stopped short on the frames and lenses of my impact-rated moto sunglasses. I was fortunate to have those on at least, and got some nice lens scratches from errant trail stones too. Long story short, I'll never run another helmet with a removable chinbar again. Just thought I'd share my experience, maybe it'll help someone.

[Paul A]

Modular helmets like the Shoei Neotech 2, are great.

They flip up easily.

Have two visors.  Outer clear, and inner tinted.

Other brands available.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Paul A

[The Brahan Seer]

9 hours ago, Pooscout said:

I really like the look of MB/Dirt Bike helmets but prefer having a visor

Maybe look at Motorcycle adventure helmets like the Shoei Hornet.

10 hours ago, Pooscout said:

I am not sure if it's better to have your chin closer to the helmet or not?

 

My thinking is, if the impact is big enough to break the chin guard on a full face helmet then the distance to your chin won't make any difference. 

Looking at the Predator DH6-Xg that was involved in the Master high speed crash it seemed to do its job very well. I was impressed.

So many variables and luck in a crash makes me take the safety tests with a pinch of salt. Like @Tawpie is MIPS effective? I reckon your hair does something similar but I could be wrong.

[Tawpie]

9 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Tawpie - I used to run a Giro Switchblade and thought it was neat I could take the chinbar off for snacks without taking off the helmet or run it without for less aggressive rides. Then one day I endo'd over my handlebars after failing to orient my bike properly off a gap jump.

I didn't slide far like you figured, but after the chinbar immediately flew off on impact (vague recollection, barely remember picking up this among other pieces) and parts of my face then got a dirt and stone makeover where I stopped short on the frames and lenses of my impact-rated moto sunglasses. I was fortunate to have those on at least, and got some nice lens scratches from errant trail stones too. Long story short, I'll never run another helmet with a removable chinbar again. Just thought I'd share my experience, maybe it'll help someone.

And that's exactly why I'm sure I'll rue my choice. You're making me think I should start stalking the sites for an AT950 again!

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

7 hours ago, Paul A said:

Modular helmets like the Shoei Neotech 2, are great.

They flip up easily.

Have two visors.  Outer clear, and inner tinted.

Other brands available.

Nice I use an hjc helmet just like this makes it perfect for when you need a drink of water when riding and not having to stop and take off your helmet 

[Pooscout]

15 hours ago, UtahRider said:

I also love the look of the Leatt Moto 8.5 V22 https://leatt.com/us/product/helmet-kit-moto-8-5-v22?selected-color=5476
 

This is a cool looking helmet!

Yes it is, but that colorway is pretty much out of stock. I want one just for low speed cruising. 

14 hours ago, Tawpie said:

It was way less expensive... got it used from another rider for $50 (he kinda has an unhealthy relationship with helmets and feared upsetting the domestic tranquility) . I did get the Super DH for a deal though, open box on fleabay.

The general consensus about ratings is that DOT is ancient and pretty meaningless. ECE is more up to date. There are other newer and more comprehensive testing protocols, but I don't know how applicable any of them are to an EUC vs moto accident. The proven benefit of MIPS is not clear to me... it makes a lot of sense but does it really help that much? Detractors say "skin" is your built-in MIPS. I don't know that there will ever be any hard science to prove or disprove the utility of MIPS, but I'm glad my Super DH has it. IMO, MIPS matters when you crash relatively slowly and especially if you crash on dirt. Dirt will grab your helmet more than pavement, and I think if you're really moving when you hit your helmet will bounce. But I have zero science to back that up!

BTW, the chin bar on a MTB helmet sticks out so far because (and watch some slo mo) when the chin bar hits, it forces the sides of the helmet apart and the chin bar deforms inward. Meantime your face is getting pressed toward the chin bar through the cheek pads. A moto helmet is almost always heavier and usually sturdier and generally fits much tighter so all that action is reduced somewhat. Plus, a true faceplant from a motorcycle is less common than going overbar on a mountain bike so the design isn't as focused on your teeth.

What do you mean by this sentence "Plus, a true faceplant from a motorcycle is less common than going overbar on a mountain bike so the design isn't as focused on your teeth."?

11 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Tawpie - I used to run a Giro Switchblade and thought it was neat I could take the chinbar off for snacks without taking off the helmet or run it without for less aggressive rides. Then one day I endo'd over my handlebars after failing to orient my bike properly off a gap jump.

I didn't slide far like you figured, but after the chinbar immediately flew off on impact (vague recollection, barely remember picking up this among other pieces) and parts of my face then got a dirt and stone makeover where I stopped short on the frames and lenses of my impact-rated moto sunglasses. I was fortunate to have those on at least, and got some nice lens scratches from errant trail stones too. Long story short, I'll never run another helmet with a removable chinbar again. Just thought I'd share my experience, maybe it'll help someone.

Thanks for sharing your experience. 

9 hours ago, Paul A said:

Modular helmets like the Shoei Neotech 2, are great.

They flip up easily.

Have two visors.  Outer clear, and inner tinted.

Other brands available.

I actually read that modular helmet are heavier than regular motorcycle helmet?

6 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Maybe look at Motorcycle adventure helmets like the Shoei Hornet.

My thinking is, if the impact is big enough to break the chin guard on a full face helmet then the distance to your chin won't make any difference. 

Looking at the Predator DH6-Xg that was involved in the Master high speed crash it seemed to do its job very well. I was impressed.

So many variables and luck in a crash makes me take the safety tests with a pinch of salt. Like @Tawpie is MIPS effective? I reckon your hair does something similar but I could be wrong.

I am surprise that the DH6-Xg is effective because the shell look so thin. 

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

And that's exactly why I'm sure I'll rue my choice. You're making me think I should start stalking the sites for an AT950 again!

 

2 hours ago, Dosingpsychedelics said:

Nice I use an hjc helmet just like this makes it perfect for when you need a drink of water when riding and not having to stop and take off your helmet 

 

[Tawpie]

9 minutes ago, Pooscout said:

What do you mean by this sentence "Plus, a true faceplant from a motorcycle is less common than going overbar on a mountain bike so the design isn't as focused on your teeth."?

My bad: the proper mountain biking slang is "endo", not 'overbar'. I just think of it as going over the handlebars.

When you're on a street bike, you have to hit something like a car or guardrail in order to go over the handlebars and land on your face. You are much more likely to lose traction and lay the bike down on its side, maybe whacking your head in the process. Then you'll slide into some other stationary object and be very glad you helmet is ECE rated.

On a mountain bike or in motocross, it's pretty easy to do something that causes you to fly over the handlebars and land on your face. Motocross folks typically wear neck braces in addition to helmets because the chances of landing on your head are much higher in motocross than street riding. Few street riders use neck protection.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Tawpie

[Paul A]

22 minutes ago, Pooscout said:

I actually read that modular helmet are heavier than regular motorcycle helmet?

 

1750 grammes

 

With all the mechanical components that are needed in a flip-lid, the Neotec 2 weighs in at 1750 grammes.

 

Modular helmet does weigh more than a standard helmet.

 

 

The Shoei Neotec 2 helmet is very comfortable. 

Chin strap is micro ratchet type.

Has chin curtain.

Visor and flip up mechanisms work smoothly.

Inner tinted visor is very good for bright sunlight.

Helmet LED self adhesive, flashing, strip lights can be installed to give great night time visibility.

Reputable brand, high quality Japanese manufacturing, motorcycle helmet.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Paul A

[The Brahan Seer]

2 hours ago, Pooscout said:

I am surprise that the DH6-Xg is effective because the shell look so thin. 

It could be that for sliding type crashes it's ok but full on head butt not so much, hard to tell.

I too was surprised how it performed considering its weight etc. for the particular crash.

Full disclosure: I always ride with a full motorcycle helmet. 

[Paul A]

Crash forces can snap a bike.

Might be better not to skimp on cost of a helmet.

 

Freak Bicycle Accident: Wear Your Helmet

53,165 views

May 5, 2015

Ian Cramer

2.92K subscribers

 

Riding in Upstate NY, a deer ran out and struck me. Luckily, I was OK, but my bike and helmet were not.

 

 

 

[Pooscout]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

My bad: the proper mountain biking slang is "endo", not 'overbar'. I just think of it as going over the handlebars.

When you're on a street bike, you have to hit something like a car or guardrail in order to go over the handlebars and land on your face. You are much more likely to lose traction and lay the bike down on its side, maybe whacking your head in the process. Then you'll slide into some other stationary object and be very glad you helmet is ECE rated.

On a mountain bike or in motocross, it's pretty easy to do something that causes you to fly over the handlebars and land on your face. Motocross folks typically wear neck braces in addition to helmets because the chances of landing on your head are much higher in motocross than street riding. Few street riders use neck protection.

Are we more likely to have the same injuries as a motocross or motorcycle riders? I would imagine we get faceplanted more than flying over the handlebar and breaking our neck. 

2 hours ago, Paul A said:

 

1750 grammes

 

With all the mechanical components that are needed in a flip-lid, the Neotec 2 weighs in at 1750 grammes.

 

Modular helmet does weigh more than a standard helmet.

 

 

The Shoei Neotec 2 helmet is very comfortable. 

Chin strap is micro ratchet type.

Has chin curtain.

Visor and flip up mechanisms work smoothly.

Inner tinted visor is very good for bright sunlight.

Helmet LED self adhesive, flashing, strip lights can be installed to give great night time visibility.

Reputable brand, high quality Japanese manufacturing, motorcycle helmet.

I did not know Shoei was a Japanese brand like Arai. I saw this helmet before but did not know it was the Neotec 2. I will look more into it. It really help to have recommendations instead of just randomly looking for helmets. Thanks

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

It could be that for sliding type crashes it's ok but full on head butt not so much, hard to tell.

I too was surprised how it performed considering its weight etc. for the particular crash.

Full disclosure: I always ride with a full motorcycle helmet. 

Which motorcycle helmet do you ride with, and do you use more than one?

[Paul A]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoei

Shoei provides helmets for numerous MotoGP riders.

In the MotoGP class Marc Márquez with eight Grand Prix World Championships, Álex Márquez (the younger brother of Marc Márquez), Andrea Dovizioso and Fabio Di Giannantonio.

In Moto2, Thomas Luthi, Jake Dixon and Hafizh Syahrin. In Moto3, Yuki Kunii and Deniz Öncü.

 

Marc Márquez with his Shoei helmet at GP de Portugal 2021

[Pooscout]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Crash forces can snap a bike.

Might be better not to skimp on cost of a helmet.

 

Freak Bicycle Accident: Wear Your Helmet

53,165 views

May 5, 2015

Ian Cramer

2.92K subscribers

 

Riding in Upstate NY, a deer ran out and struck me. Luckily, I was OK, but my bike and helmet were not.

 

 

 

Oh believe me, a good helmet is the last thing I would skimp out on---though my brain is already damage from a previous car accident...that ran the red light.

I like to do lots of research when I get into a new hobby, but EUC is still a relatively new sport, so there is very few informations on it. 

I done some research and apparently the Bell SuperDH is only meant for speed of up to 20mph, which mean I can safely rule that out. Where I live, high speed is safer than low speed, if only to avoid all the bad drivers. 

Apologies if I already asked you this, but what helmet or helmets do you wear? Is it the Neotech 2?

Thanks

[Paul A]

Yes, Shoei Neotech 2, white color.

Self adhesive LED strip lights installed separately.

Hope that helps.

[Pooscout]

3 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Yes, Shoei Neotech 2, white color.

Self adhesive LED strip lights installed separately.

Hope that helps.

Absolutely! I was wondering why you were so familiar with its design. I think I'm going to visit a motorcycle shop and try it on there. 

Definitely want to get this colorway: https://shoei-helmets.com/neotec-2-helmet-technology/ (the one that dude is wearing). Ever since I saw that pic, I wanted that colorway, not to mention bright colors are hi-visibility. 

Thank you.

[The Brahan Seer]

17 hours ago, Pooscout said:

Which motorcycle helmet do you ride with, and do you use more than one?

I currently use a Vozz 1.0 and like it a lot, I talked about its pro's and con's in this link [The link is on the right page (55) just scroll down to read my post.