Attempting to learn to ride.

[Tritzzy]

1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

Haha. Order some, they take a while to arrive.

But early on, it's nice to be able to slide your foot off the pedal with zero chance of it hanging up on a spike. No spikes also makes it way easier to adjust your foot position. After you're pretty comfortable mounting and dismounting and moving your foot around, then spikes are a magical addition because there's no way your feet are sliding off the pedals. But until then, I wanted to be able to get off the wheel and safely away without getting hung up on the pedals.

Okay yeah that seems right! I did go ahead and get some though. I have them in hand and want to put them on but I guess I should at least be able to ride the thing without hoping off every minute before I slap them on. 

[meepmeepmayer]

• Do NOT learn on grass (as you mention your yard). Would you let a kid learn to ride a bicycle on grass? Certainly not, it would just be frustrating and unpleasant for everyone involved. A smooth, hard surface is best.
• Is your tire pumped up properly? It does not have to be the max pressure that is on the tire (though that is fine), but often it looks ok but is actually flat when you stand on the wheel.
• If you can do all the things but not ride, you're simply too slow. Speed stabilizes you.
  Use a wall (so you can get on, look down for a good foot position, whatever you need with the help of a support) and then look forward, pedulum back and forth, and fling yourself forwards at the right time. Or free mount and lean like there is no tomorrow.
  Do not step on and then slowly creep up to speed (you'll turn and wobble and have to step off before you get to a useful speed). Start dynamic and forceful, with the goal of getting up to a good speed (10+ mph) immediately.
  (You need to be on a low resistance surface for that, so no grass. Grass is evil.)
• You can always try the different ride modes (soft/medium/hard) to see if one (probably soft) helps you lean easier. Choose what feels best.

Summary: Pretty sure you simply too slow. You don't want to slowly explore going up to a normal speed. You want to get to a good speed before you even have the chance to fall over. Don't be afraid, the wheel will catch you. Remove anything (grass, fear due to no protection or distractions or no space or ...) that gets in your way towards speed.

Speed speed speed.

If you're unstable while riding, you're too slow. If you get unstable while riding, speed up.

Edited May 5, 2022 by meepmeepmayer
added stuff I forgot

[h00ktern]

The wheel rotates because you weight the front of the pedals. It slows, because weight is removed, or reverses because the heel is weighted.

Whether you toe press, heel press, or stand flat footed and lean, it's all the same as far as the wheel knows.

Larger pedals will support bigger feet, but a size 11 foot can be just as effective on a size 8 pedal. It's just up to brain controlling where those souls are placed.

[Tritzzy]

8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

• Do NOT learn on grass (as you mention your yard). Would you let a kid learn to ride a bicycle on grass? Certainly not, it would just be frustrating and unpleasant for everyone involved. A smooth, hard surface is best.
• Is your tire pumped up properly? It does not have to be the max pressure that is on the tire (though that is fine), but often it looks ok but is actually flat when you stand on the wheel.
• If you can do all the things but not ride, you're simply too slow. Speed stabilizes you. Use a wall (so you can get on, look down for a good foot position, whatever you need with the help of a support) and then look forward, pedulum back and forth, and fling yourself forwards at the right time. Do not step on and then slowly creep up to speed (you'll turn and wobble and have to step off before you get to a useful speed). Start dynamic and forceful, with the goal of getting up to a good speed (10+ mph) immediately.
  (You need to be on a low resistance surface for that, so no grass. Grass is evil.)

Summary: Pretty sure you simply too slow. You don't want to slowly explore going up to a normal speed. You want to get to a good speed before you even have the chance to fall over. Don't be afraid, the wheel will catch you. Remove anything (grass, fear due to no protection or distractions or no space or ...) that gets in your way towards speed.

Speed speed speed.

I believe you to be 100% correct. Because I have been practicing inside (I know I still need to eliminate the lack of space. BUT On a flat surface I can ride wall to wall across the room (say 40 feet) Of course still with some wiggles of my body, but I think that's due in part to knowing mentally that I can't go fast because lack of space. But I will take all of your guys feedback, try and find a flat spot that isn't grass with a large amount of space and try to put all of this feedback into giving my training the best foot forward! Thank you guys so much! 

[Robse]

21 minutes ago, Tritzzy said:

I believe you to be 100% correct. Because I have been practicing inside (I know I still need to eliminate the lack of space. BUT On a flat surface I can ride wall to wall across the room (say 40 feet) Of course still with some wiggles of my body, but I think that's due in part to knowing mentally that I can't go fast because lack of space. But I will take all of your guys feedback, try and find a flat spot that isn't grass with a large amount of space and try to put all of this feedback into giving my training the best foot forward! Thank you guys so much! 

Yes - I learned the basics at home in the living room ... but at one point I could not move on because I was afraid of ruining something when I got up to speed - from wall to wall.  Found a empty parking garage and 1 hour later I had cracked the code

[rcgldr]

There are a couple videos of me learning to ride at the end of this post.

Seems like you should learn to ride first using support to mount and launch, and at a location like an empty parking lot that is level. When you use support to mount, you can position your feet perfectly before launching. Video of Kuji Roll teaching a girl to ride a V8 for the first time. He does some one foot drills, often used to learn to free mount, but in this case, it is so the girl can bail / dismount by stepping off and keeping control of the V8 so it doesn't roll off into some cars, since they're in a parking lot. In the video, she never learns to free mount, but is riding reasonably well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o8ZMlo5ko

Wrong Way also recommends learning to ride before trying free mount. His girlfriend Monokat had ridden 60 to 80 km before attempting to free mount on a 77 lb Veteran Sherman. She gets it on her second attempt (first attempt was too slow, I got it on my third attempt, same issue, too slow on first two attempts):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-y5RiecMc&t=634s

There are two basic ways to turn. One is to twist the wheel side to side, called yaw steering. Arm flailing (flail left to steer right, flail right to steer left), can help for beginners, and is also used by advanced riders at very slow speeds. 

Example of a 3 year old kid using arm flailing method:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z9YiHu5HJ6o

Example of advanced riders arm flailing while nearly stopped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro3o8U9uZeU&t=57s

The other way to turn is to tilt the wheel left or right. The response will depend on a lot of factors. It's best to learn how to yaw steer at low speed, then increase speed a bit to where the wheel becomes stable and you don't have to focus on balance before you try to tilt steer. This is why Kuji tells the girl in his video to get more speed so that it becomes more stable. Near the end of the video, she's riding fast enough for the V8 to be stable and tilt steering reasonably well.

For an example of tilt steering, I looked for a Marty Backe style of riding (almost motionless), but with some turns. I found a video of this girl on an S18, almost motionless (no body twisting, no carving, ...) except for body leaning and tilting her S18. Due to weight, speed, turning radius, ..., she body leans more than she tilts her S18:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWMwK3Cfs0

My wife took a couple of videos of me learning to ride my V8F, and I took a video of where I learned to tilt steer.

Day 1 - After about 30 minutes using a rail on a small walkway and then a fence at a tennis court for some drills and short rides, and following the advice to steer left and right for balance instead of trying to go straight, I ventured away from the fence, using arm flailing yaw steer to steer into direction of fall and to guide my V8F. I only expected to go 10 to 15 feet, but was able to do laps at around 3 to 5 mph on my first attempt.

Day 2  - not much different than day 1, other than I was doing 4 or 5 laps at a time instead of just 1 or 2. Until I saw the video, I didn't realize I was hunched over, which I corrected after seeing the video. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPyy84EThmM

Day 3 -  I moved to a location with a long straight with a bit over 500 feet between the two trash bin enclosures I used for mount and launch. I found my V8F became stable at 6 to 8 mph where I didn't have to focus on balance. Leaning forwards | backwards to accelerate | brake wasn't an issue. The main goal here was to learn basic tilt steering (move inner foot down, outer foot up) as commented in the video description. I also learned how to dismount without grabbing the wheel. I don't have a video of me riding there, but did take a video from my car to show what it looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ts5K7FIsPw

Day 5 - I decided it was time to attempt free mount, my only time on grass. I didn't lean enough to compensate for the grass on my first two tries, but got it on my third. I was also working on tilt steering drills, leaning a bit with my body, then tilt steering inwards enough to either hold the lean or tilting more to straighten back up (counter-steering). 

Day 10 - My wife took a video of me on a very long and wide pathway with a large half circle on one side. It was at night and the beam from the headlight shows just how stable the V8F became at around 8 mph or so. I did a bit of weaving on the way back. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keDvRMScO1g

A few days later, I started riding at a local paved bike trail with a lot of turns and some inclines and declines. Over the next few months, I continued to improve, tighter turns, leaning more, being able to move my arms and|or look around without upsetting balance or changing direction, and for steering with my feet to feel natural.

Edited May 6, 2022 by rcgldr

[WILSONEUC]

10 hours ago, Tritzzy said:

So I don't know if maybe I am just bad at this lmao. Or maybe it's me trying to learn on uneven terrain while free mounting as a newbie. 

But I can not seem to get on and ride for more than 5 feet after a week of trying. 

Ive done MANY handrail back and fourths, many leg control EUC exercises, putting my foot up and down on the pedal, ect. 

But when it comes to going to my yard (which in fairness is not flat at all I live on a hill pretty much) I can't seem to get on it and get going.

I have tried to turn into my falling like I've seen talked about a thousand times but every single time I do it result in a fall. 

So if anyone has further tips or training things I can do that aren't in training videos, I'm open to anything. I really want to learn because even when i'm falling i am just thinking about all fun i could have if I did learn to do it well. But it's been slightly discouraging. 

From personal experience, is to get some air time. All what you have learned so far is great and you are on the correct path. 
Air time = you have to just get the feeling down of how it feels to actually ride it (Video below demonstrates my struggle in my series)
Advice is to : With safety gear on,  Push off from a pole or a stationary sturdy object. Give yourself a goal to how far you want to reach with your EUC without you coming off your wheel. Make mental note of your progress. If your nervous, its ok, i was too, just have to push pass this feeling.

Repeat over and over until you are comfortable with balance and able to  control the device and bring it where you want it to go, not where the wheel wants you to go.  Once you got that down, begin training yourself by kicking off without launching yourself from a pole. It should all click with repetition and persistence. YOU GOT THIS!!

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by WILSON-YT

[.....]

11 hours ago, Tritzzy said:

So I don't know if maybe I am just bad at this lmao. Or maybe it's me trying to learn on uneven terrain while free mounting as a newbie. 

But I can not seem to get on and ride for more than 5 feet after a week of trying. 

Ive done MANY handrail back and fourths, many leg control EUC exercises, putting my foot up and down on the pedal, ect. 

But when it comes to going to my yard (which in fairness is not flat at all I live on a hill pretty much) I can't seem to get on it and get going.

I have tried to turn into my falling like I've seen talked about a thousand times but every single time I do it result in a fall. 

So if anyone has further tips or training things I can do that aren't in training videos, I'm open to anything. I really want to learn because even when i'm falling i am just thinking about all fun i could have if I did learn to do it well. But it's been slightly discouraging. 

I learned on grass. The trick with learning on grass in a yard is.... Only do it until you can mount and roll 3-5'. Your 'grass' session, is only for the very beginning, as it allows you to at least stand still more easily for a mere moment. It also allows you to jump free of the wheel and let it drop. Once you can get moving AT ALL, reliably, on grass, move to harder surfaces.

I went from grass for a couple days, then found the courage to roll off onto pavement. I DID fall and roll off the front of the euc in grass, and was VERY glad I wasnt on pavement. It was a noob mistake.  It sounds to me like you are already past the initial 'grass' stage. I didnt ever use any object to help, so I learned to 'free mount' on the street. Mind you, my streets are always fairly empty. For my first few HUNDRED miles and year, I was pretty bad at mounting and stopping. Im instant gratification, so once I began to roll, I would ride and ride and try not to have to stop. Not a structured way to go about it, probably not the safest. But hey, we all learn differently. (I have a channel of very little redeeming quality, full of misled euc opinions and tripe) By my second year, I had gotten pretty good at start and stops and estops and grass. I am 3 years or so into riding, a cpla thousand miles (yeah not much), and I still have days that aint so hot. Just pace yourself and keep it fun! My goal was to simply learn how to ride one of these crazy contraptions, and get to my local gas station. It took a while, but I conquered that. Now, there is absolutely no goal for me, but to enjoy it and try not do anything TOO stupid.

Just pace yourself, stay hydrated, and set some VERY low goals and LONG timelines. If you set the bar low enough, you will end each day with delight at your success'.

Edited May 6, 2022 by ShanesPlanet