NOSFET APEX-01

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, PourUC said:

It's not a bogus number. It has merit on a spec sheet because a common thing riders care about has been blowing boards. So seeing the differential between max fw amperage and actual mosfet amperage tells you in spec form "Unlike the S22, early masters and many other wheels, this board isn't going to blow if you climb a hill or if you free spin the wheel and then reverse it quickly (V12) etc"

Since those numbers doesn't exist for the S22 or Master spec sheets you can't make the comparison that you claim is useful.

[Paul g]

8 hours ago, Ronin said:

Removing the trolley handle on a wheel is like telling commuters : "not for you". But then again it seems that the apex core targets niches like offroading and track (yet to understand how on this one), so i get why amenities like trolley or seat haven't been prioritized high. 

      Couldn’t agree more. For me the best wheel is the wheel that will take you to work and shops every day and that you can also have fun on in the weekend. Only people that will have enough money and space in their house will be able to splurge on a weekend/race wheel. For me the Lynx  looks like the wheel that covers these two use cases the best at the moment. I am sure that there will be enough people buying a wheel like the Apex, especially if it will prove itself good at what is designed for. 

       Post Scriptum: I hope they will change the name of the company “Nosfet” which is embarrassingly similar (if not outright copied from) Hsiang’s company “The Mosfet”, especially that he seems to not be involved in any way in this endeavour. Apex is a very nice name in itself. No need to Borrow Your Design/Name needed.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

7 minutes ago, PourUC said:

Does your back not bend?

That's a pretty poor argument. Now your just being a fan boy. My v13 is a "tall wheel" and it would be ridiculous if i had to bend over and walk with it every time i needed to wheel it somewhere. It's not a light wheel so you cant just grab it and carry it around. And the trolley handle only weighs about 8 oz on the v13. The difference is not like a " Honda convertible with less trunk space". It's like a Honda that someone removed the passenger door and the trunk lid. This all just my opinion and i have no plans on buying this wheel, i'm just giving a little feedback. Isn't that what forum discussions are for? I think it's great that another company has formed and feedback is crucial to it's development. Everyone's always screaming that the manufacturers "don't listen to the people". Maybe Jack will.

[techyiam]

22 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I think it's great that another company has formed and feedback is crucial to it's development. Everyone's always screaming that the manufacturers "don't listen to the people". Maybe Jack will.

Perhaps Jack can provide the reason as to why they decided not to include a trolley handle on the Apex. There has to be a reason.

I think the feedback would be more accurate and legitimate if Apex owners get a chance to use their Apex first than voice their complaints. 

[PourUC]

17 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

That's a pretty poor argument. Now your just being a fan boy. My v13 is a "tall wheel" and it would be ridiculous if i had to bend over and walk with it every time i needed to wheel it somewhere. It's not a light wheel so you cant just grab it and carry it around. And the trolley handle only weighs about 8 oz on the v13. The difference is not like a " Honda convertible with less trunk space". It's like a Honda that someone removed the passenger door and the trunk lid. This all just my opinion and i have no plans on buying this wheel, i'm just giving a little feedback. Isn't that what forum discussions are for? I think it's great that another company has formed and feedback is crucial to it's development. Everyone's always screaming that the manufacturers "don't listen to the people". Maybe Jack will.

It isn't a poor argument.

The point I argued against made it seem like a Trolley handle is needed for the things mentioned, I was suggesting that it isn't needed. It's not some mandatory requirement to achieve the things suggested.

The difference is like a convertible. The trolley handle mechanism must go somewhere. You could make something in the suspension sliders, but the handle itself would cover the charging ports and would be cumbersome. The point I made is that the vehicle itself is designed around it's core features. In the case of an EUC the handle if included needs to either be a core part of the design or an afterthought.

The reason I am hostile is because you ignore the Lynx. This isn't some wheel that is meant to cater for all. It clearly realises that the Lynx exists by the fact it uses Lynx components. The type of arguments I see from you and others is people crying for it to sacrifice it's main focus and instead include features that make it more like other wheels... without seeming to realise that this would just make it a Lynx.

It's like you believe that Nosfet forgot about the trolley handle. Like it just slipped their mind and you have actually just come to deliver some valuable information. When in reality it was purposefully omitted and you don't seem to consider the reasons behind that. You just think "I want trolley handle, why wheel not cater to me" fully ignoring that the wheel is focusing on something you don't care for.

Which brings me back to the back comment. The kind of person who is sending big jumps and drops doesn't care about manoeuvring a wheel 2 meters bent over a little. If that is a sacrifice made to achieve greater suspension travel in the lightest format possible then they won't care. I know they won't because I don't. My Lynx handle has been broke for a few months and whilst having the handle is nice, I am not in some huge bind because of it... demonstrated by the fact I have 2 spare handle systems and haven't fixed it yet.

[Rawnei]

12 minutes ago, PourUC said:

It isn't a poor argument.

The point I argued against made it seem like a Trolley handle is needed for the things mentioned, I was suggesting that it isn't needed. It's not some mandatory requirement to achieve the things suggested.

The difference is like a convertible. The trolley handle mechanism must go somewhere. You could make something in the suspension sliders, but the handle itself would cover the charging ports and would be cumbersome. The point I made is that the vehicle itself is designed around it's core features. In the case of an EUC the handle if included needs to either be a core part of the design or an afterthought.

The reason I am hostile is because you ignore the Lynx. This isn't some wheel that is meant to cater for all. It clearly realises that the Lynx exists by the fact it uses Lynx components. The type of arguments I see from you and others is people crying for it to sacrifice it's main focus and instead include features that make it more like other wheels... without seeming to realise that this would just make it a Lynx.

It's like you believe that Nosfet forgot about the trolley handle. Like it just slipped their mind and you have actually just come to deliver some valuable information. When in reality it was purposefully omitted and you don't seem to consider the reasons behind that. You just think "I want trolley handle, why wheel not cater to me" fully ignoring that the wheel is focusing on something you don't care for.

Which brings me back to the back comment. The kind of person who is sending big jumps and drops doesn't care about manoeuvring a wheel 2 meters bent over a little. If that is a sacrifice made to achieve greater suspension travel in the lightest format possible then they won't care. I know they won't because I don't. My Lynx handle has been broke for a few months and whilst having the handle is nice, I am not in some huge bind because of it... demonstrated by the fact I have 2 spare handle systems and haven't fixed it yet.

"Does your back not bend?" is objectively a poor argument, you both got your wishes and points and they are not mutually exclusive, having different requirement and wants is normal and none of you is wrong in what you want or need.

If no trolley handle (or other design choices) is a good or bad idea sales numbers will tell. 😁

[PourUC]

6 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

"Does your back not bend?" is objectively a poor argument, you both got your wishes and points and they are not mutually exclusive, having different requirement and wants is normal and none of you is wrong in what you want or need.

If no trolley handle (or other design choices) is a good or bad idea sales numbers will tell. 😁

The comment I replied to implied, well stated exactly that without a handle you are unable to manoeuvre this wheel around or lean it against a tree. I am pointing out that you ARE able to do these manoeuvres easily without a trolley handle and the only reason you would struggle is if your back did not bend. I am being antagonistic yes, but the point I am making is valid.

It is farcical to pretend that without a trolley handle you are now suddenly unable to lean a wheel against a tree (which was the example they gave as not being able to do without a trolley handle).

[Rawnei]

11 minutes ago, PourUC said:

The comment I replied to implied, well stated exactly that without a handle you are unable to manoeuvre this wheel around or lean it against a tree. I am pointing out that you ARE able to do these manoeuvres easily without a trolley handle and the only reason you would struggle is if your back did not bend. I am being antagonistic yes, but the point I am making is valid.

It is farcical to pretend that without a trolley handle you are now suddenly unable to lean a wheel against a tree (which was the example they gave as not being able to do without a trolley handle).

Well I think that things like this becomes posting in bad faith, a better way of putting the same argument is that you believe that a lot of riders interested in this wheel would accept that they have to bend a bit to move it around, then it's just your opinion without values attached to it.

Personally I don't know what to think about lack of trolley handle, if I bought an Apex it would be because I love off-roading and wanted the 150mm suspension travel for that, but I would also commute with it, take it with me into the store and all those normal things I do with all my wheels regardless of how much I like off-roading, possibly I would miss having a trolley handle and if I was actively thinking about getting one it might be a factor to consider.

Another approach by Nosfet could be to have the optional possibility of a trolley addon, maybe something similar and simple like the Begode fold-up handle that you can buy and/or install if you wanted it, then everybody would be happy in that regard (it's not impossible from an engineering viewpoint to design something like that).

Edited 1 hour ago by Rawnei

[techyiam]

Regarding add a trolley handle, the suspension linkage already attaches basically to the top center of the wheel. This is a structural point that would be a workable and convenient location to attach a trolley handle. If there is a high enough demand, either Nosfet.com or an aftermarket vendor can come up with a trolley handle option for the Apex. 

Edited 41 minutes ago by techyiam

[PourUC]

40 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Well I think that things like this becomes posting in bad faith, a better way of putting the same argument is that you believe that a lot of riders interested in this wheel would accept that they have to bend a bit to move it around, then it's just your opinion without values attached to it.

Personally I don't know what to think about lack of trolley handle, if I bought an Apex it would be because I love off-roading and wanted the 150mm suspension travel for that, but I would also commute with it, take it with me into the store and all those normal things I do with all my wheels regardless of how much I like off-roading, possibly I would miss having a trolley handle and if I was actively thinking about getting one it might be a factor to consider.

Another approach by Nosfet could be to have the optional possibility of a trolley addon, maybe something similar and simple like the Begode fold-up handle that you can buy and/or install if you wanted it, then everybody would be happy in that regard (it's not impossible from an engineering viewpoint to design something like that).

You can simply ride a different wheel.

If you want a handle, and enough people do then some 3rd party will produce one. Jack has openly stated that they are leaning on the community to produce components that are not included. 

As a base wheel, being focused on off-roading I just don't think a trolley is essential. I understand the benefits of one, my point was highlighting how the impossibilities of having a wheel without a trolley are exaggerated. 

[Rawnei]

11 minutes ago, PourUC said:

You can simply ride a different wheel.

If you want a handle, and enough people do then some 3rd party will produce one. Jack has openly stated that they are leaning on the community to produce components that are not included. 

As a base wheel, being focused on off-roading I just don't think a trolley is essential. I understand the benefits of one, my point was highlighting how the impossibilities of having a wheel without a trolley are exaggerated. 

There you go again correcting other people what they should want and wish for, just stop it man.

A wheel can be both intended for off-road and have a trolley handle, it's not up to you to decide that and in this case it's you making a hen from a feather.

Edited 13 minutes ago by Rawnei

[PourUC]

Just now, Rawnei said:

There you go again correcting other people what they should want and wish for, just stop it man.

A wheel can be both intended for off-road and have a trolley handle, it's not up to you to decide that and in this case it's you making a hen from a feather.

I am not correcting any person. I am stating what is objectively the case.

The Apex DOES NOT have a handle. It doesn't have one for specific reasons. Jack HAS said that the aftermarket can sort out people's particular desires. The Apex IS powered by Lynx power train.

Did I design the Apex? It's news to me that I am saying a wheel intended for off-road cannot have a trolley handle. I am saying that the Apex doesn't have a trolley handle because it was designed for off-road. These are not the same thing. I am annoyed that people struggle to understand why it was omitted when to me it seems plain as day.

I am not the one stuck on a feature. I am not the one joining a mini army of people going "why no trolley" as if the answer is unfathomable. I am simply giving the obvious answer and telling people who are surprised or making "this isn't a wheel for me" type comments where to look. To me, these kind of complaints are no different to people who go to a thread complaining that the wheel is too large, or that it has too much battery, or that it should be slighter etc etc. This is the Apex, if you don't like a core design point of it... don't complain. Just don't get it.

What I wish was here instead was off-road enthusiasts going "oh sick the suspension travel is huge" and engineer types going "the suspension mechanism could be improved by X", some people theorising what after-market shock to use with discussions over DNM vs RockShox vs Fox. Some people theorising mods they would make or potential 3D prints. 

Some people asking questions about unclear things like the motor cable rubbing on the tyre.

Not looking at a wheel and going "it doesn't have trolley handle... this is such a bad wheel for the majority of riders omg" when the wheel never intended to be the wheel for the everyman.

[Rawnei]

Just now, PourUC said:

I am not correcting any person. I am stating what is objectively the case.

The Apex DOES NOT have a handle. It doesn't have one for specific reasons. Jack HAS said that the aftermarket can sort out people's particular desires. The Apex IS powered by Lynx power train.

Did I design the Apex? It's news to me that I am saying a wheel intended for off-road cannot have a trolley handle. I am saying that the Apex doesn't have a trolley handle because it was designed for off-road. These are not the same thing. I am annoyed that people struggle to understand why it was omitted when to me it seems plain as day.

I am not the one stuck on a feature. I am not the one joining a mini army of people going "why no trolley" as if the answer is unfathomable. I am simply giving the obvious answer and telling people who are surprised or making "this isn't a wheel for me" type comments where to look. To me, these kind of complaints are no different to people who go to a thread complaining that the wheel is too large, or that it has too much battery, or that it should be slighter etc etc. This is the Apex, if you don't like a core design point of it... don't complain. Just don't get it.

What I wish was here instead was off-road enthusiasts going "oh sick the suspension travel is huge" and engineer types going "the suspension mechanism could be improved by X", some people theorising what after-market shock to use with discussions over DNM vs RockShox vs Fox. Some people theorising mods they would make or potential 3D prints. 

Some people asking questions about unclear things like the motor cable rubbing on the tyre.

Not looking at a wheel and going "it doesn't have trolley handle... this is such a bad wheel for the majority of riders omg" when the wheel never intended to be the wheel for the everyman.

You wrote "You can ride a different wheel.", maybe you had a different intent but to me that reads as that I should not bother with the Apex since I'm not sure about the trolley handle.

And then again you wrote "If you want a handle, and enough people do then some 3rd party will produce one." in a direct reply to me thus dismissing the arguments I made, again maybe not your intent but that is how it reads.

I'm not going to read all the other things you wrote the discussion already spiraling out of control but to keep it short, neutral and objective, a trolley handle whether it be included, an addon, made by Nosfet or a 3rd party would surely be appreciated by some potential customers, not much else to add on this topic.