Width vs Diameter Snow Riding

[Helmetgurus]

I’m thinking of getting a small wheel for commuting which involves taking the train. I’ve tried the v8, v10, and ks18L on the train, and only the v8 is practical enough dimensions-wise. 
Im planning on riding it in the snow during winter, and was looking at the mTen3 as an option, which I haven’t tried.

Since a v8 has a 16x2” tire, but the mTen3 has a 10x3” tire, how would they compare in the snow? Does width provide equal/superior traction to a larger wheel that’s narrower?

If I am planning on getting a 2nd wheel for longer rides next summer (ks18xl), am I better off with a significantly smaller wheel for those short commute and contrast, being the mTen3?

[Jayzao]

When comparing the V8's 16x2" tire to the mTen3's 10x3" tire in snow, several factors come into play:
(Speaking for myself I am apprehensive about snow riding, but winter is coming...)

Width vs. Diameter in Snow

• Width: Wider tires generally offer better traction on dry surfaces due to their increased contact patch. However, in snow, a narrower tire can "cut" through the snow and reach the firmer surface below, providing better grip.
• Diameter: A larger tire can help with ground clearance, preventing the vehicle from getting stuck in deep snow. But it doesn't directly influence traction in the same way width does.

Specific Comparison

• V8 (16x2"): The narrower 2" width will likely provide better snow traction than the mTen3, as it can more easily penetrate the snow layer.
• mTen3 (10x3"): The wider 3" tire might offer slightly better flotation in deep snow due to its larger contact patch, but its wider footprint might make it more prone to "floating" on top of the snow instead of gripping the surface below.

Other Factors

• Tread Pattern: The specific tread pattern of each tire plays a significant role in snow traction. Look for tires with deep treads and aggressive biting edges designed for snow and ice.
• Tire Compound: Winter tires are made with specialized rubber compounds that remain flexible in cold temperatures, providing better grip than all-season or summer tires.
• Weight Distribution: The weight distribution of the vehicle also affects traction. A vehicle with more weight over the driven wheels will generally have better traction.

Conclusion

In general, the narrower V8 tire is likely to have an advantage in snow compared to the wider mTen3 tire, especially in packed snow or icy conditions. However, the mTen3's wider footprint might be slightly better in deep, loose snow.

It's important to remember that tire width alone doesn't determine snow performance. The tread pattern, tire compound, and other factors also play crucial roles. If you're looking for optimal snow performance, consider investing in dedicated winter tires designed for your specific vehicle and driving conditions.

Remember, safety is paramount in winter driving. Always adjust your driving style to the conditions and prioritize caution over speed.

[Esash]

4 hours ago, Helmetgurus said:

I’m thinking of getting a small wheel for commuting which involves taking the train. I’ve tried the v8, v10, and ks18L on the train, and only the v8 is practical enough dimensions-wise. 
Im planning on riding it in the snow during winter, and was looking at the mTen3 as an option, which I haven’t tried.

Since a v8 has a 16x2” tire, but the mTen3 has a 10x3” tire, how would they compare in the snow? Does width provide equal/superior traction to a larger wheel that’s narrower?

If I am planning on getting a 2nd wheel for longer rides next summer (ks18xl), am I better off with a significantly smaller wheel for those short commute and contrast, being the mTen3?

way too small a wheel, and the tire is way too slick.  And snow doesn't stay fluffy, it turns into hard clumps and ice chunks and slick slush.

Then the problem with an off-road tire in your case is that the snow would chunk in every groove all around your wheel. That snow will melt and drip all over you on the subway/bus, and it'll make a slippery mess for everybody around you and after you. You don't want to have to ... floss the snow out of your winter tire for 3 minutes with a stick or something every time you get on the subway from a snowy ride.

I'd say go with your V8 with street tire for now, just take it easy and slow. At least you won't get launched off the wheel over the slightest chunk of snow like you would on the MTen3.

16" wheel like the V8 is just about right for winter urban last mile riding, unless you're in a mid-winter thaw for a few days. And even then, the V8 is still sweet/ideal.

Just take it really easy when riding in the winter. We could recommend all sorts of superior winter EUCs that you obviously would not want to drag up and down the subway stairs.

Biggest trick about winter riding, besides riding slow for the most part, is to know that turning is where you will slide out on ice and fall. Straight line is fine and just watch our for bumps/clumps. And just slow way down when you need to turn. And if you ever do start sliding out, just try to stay on the wheel and ride it out, a lot of times you can catch/save yourself despite sliding sideways.

 

[alcatraz]

A narrower tire is better for slippery roads. Also the Mten3 is pretty crap for non-smooth surfaces. I have one and love it but I'd never take it if it isn't nice and sunny.

The original V8 is the weight/perf king. The next step up from the V8 is the MCM5 84v. It smokes the V8 when it comes to performance/safety margin, and is just as practical and almost as light. I've seen tire mods for the MCM5 up to 3in but a 2.5in fits without mich trouble = way more comfortable than V8.

[alcatraz]

(On slippery roads a V8 isn't at much of a disadvantage because you won't be pushing the wheel.)

[InfiniteWheelie]

On 9/13/2024 at 11:23 AM, Jayzao said:

When comparing the V8's 16x2" tire to the mTen3's 10x3" tire in snow, several factors come into play:
(Speaking for myself I am apprehensive about snow riding, but winter is coming...)

Width vs. Diameter in Snow

• Width: Wider tires generally offer better traction on dry surfaces due to their increased contact patch. However, in snow, a narrower tire can "cut" through the snow and reach the firmer surface below, providing better grip.
• Diameter: A larger tire can help with ground clearance, preventing the vehicle from getting stuck in deep snow. But it doesn't directly influence traction in the same way width does.

Specific Comparison

• V8 (16x2"): The narrower 2" width will likely provide better snow traction than the mTen3, as it can more easily penetrate the snow layer.
• mTen3 (10x3"): The wider 3" tire might offer slightly better flotation in deep snow due to its larger contact patch, but its wider footprint might make it more prone to "floating" on top of the snow instead of gripping the surface below.

Other Factors

• Tread Pattern: The specific tread pattern of each tire plays a significant role in snow traction. Look for tires with deep treads and aggressive biting edges designed for snow and ice.
• Tire Compound: Winter tires are made with specialized rubber compounds that remain flexible in cold temperatures, providing better grip than all-season or summer tires.
• Weight Distribution: The weight distribution of the vehicle also affects traction. A vehicle with more weight over the driven wheels will generally have better traction.

Conclusion

In general, the narrower V8 tire is likely to have an advantage in snow compared to the wider mTen3 tire, especially in packed snow or icy conditions. However, the mTen3's wider footprint might be slightly better in deep, loose snow.

It's important to remember that tire width alone doesn't determine snow performance. The tread pattern, tire compound, and other factors also play crucial roles. If you're looking for optimal snow performance, consider investing in dedicated winter tires designed for your specific vehicle and driving conditions.

Remember, safety is paramount in winter driving. Always adjust your driving style to the conditions and prioritize caution over speed.

AI copy paste?

[Poker]

Having a narrow tire for snow makes sense for a car but when you only have one point of contact with the ground the rules feel different. 

Last year I got a K66 tire, its a snow tire for a scooter, that means the rubber mixture is probably right but this season I'm going for a studded knobby tire.

If the snow is deep enough you just aren't going anywhere with an euc but if there's only a few patches of deeper snow you need to force yourself through then a knobby just gives more traction. 

I suggest going for a fat tire with a large diameter. Sort of how you see fatbikes riding next to the ski tracks if you get those where you live.

[Phonoman]

I have ridden a V8F through a winter and while being an exercise (because I was tense at all times as you can slip in random moments) - it was doable as long as ice is barely involved. I also later changed the tire to "Kenda Comp III Style Wire Bead Bicycle Tire, Blackwall" (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G7P4HU) and it helped with some more grip when in the snow - you could feel it get traction way quicker after free-spinning under you for a sec. And, of course, I did take a couple of falls, but as you're barely moving and gear is love, the falls didn't involve any damage to me or the wheel. 

But I ended up upgrading my V8F to a A2 for this exact reason - winter riding - since it's actually super water resistant, super wide tire, big knobby out of the box and still doesn't cost an arm and a leg. It was way more stable and much easier winter than the last. 

The only time I had issues was.. when I didn't turn around and tried going through solid, dripping wet and full of imperfections ice road of almost 1km.. x) Worst riding mistake and experience of my life. 
But if you were to stud the tire, then probably it would be as good as a peaceful ride in the autumn.  I didn't feel like I need the studs at any other point besides that awful day, tho! 

[Jayzao]

On 9/15/2024 at 3:34 PM, InfiniteWheelie said:

AI copy paste?

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• Software:
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[Funky]

On 9/13/2024 at 6:35 PM, Esash said:

Then the problem with an off-road tire in your case is that the snow would chunk in every groove all around your wheel. That snow will melt and drip all over you on the subway/bus, and it'll make a slippery mess for everybody around you and after you. You don't want to have to ... floss the snow out of your winter tire for 3 minutes with a stick or something every time you get on the subway from a snowy ride.

Huh.. I have done that for 3 years now. Yes i leave behind me a big lake size poodle. From window to edge of seat - where the walkway in middle of train are, but i never have tried to clean the snow off or anything. Maybe one/two hard dunks against ground, (lift wheel up and throw down) to get most of snow off..

FYI: The ground on train is already wet from people boots walking in/out non stop.. Who cares that there's little bit more water now.  Same as after riding in heavy rain - you enter and leave poodle, as tire/motor was very wet.

 

On topic - tire studs are what you really need in winter. Riding freshly fallen snow - without any foot prints yet - any tire gets the job done. The next day, when there are dozens/millions of footprints that have frozen over night and made many, many small icy potholes - there you need (not want, but actually need!) tire studs - it's gamer changer for sure. You can ride the same as on asphalt in summer. More studs you have - the better, less slippery the ride will be.

For that you want FAT knobby tire for sure - so you can add the studs yourself... The bigger the knobs - the better.

I have Heidenau K66 tire on my wheel. I got one for summer and second one i have DIY studded for winter use. Wheels that can use big/fat knobby tires are the best for winter.. Slick tires gonna slide like hell!!!

Also Mten3 going over those "icy potholes" that i mentioned - let's just say.. It won't be great ride, that's for sure. I recommend A2 at least. Big fat knobby, add some studs = great success.

 

And i personally don't count winter walls.. You simply slide sideways and land on ground. Puffy snow jacket - you don't feel anything. Clean snow off, get on wheel and continue riding.  (No protective gear, etc.. Regular snow clothes.) Half of those times you simply run out of fall.. Or try riding out the slide in Tokyo Drift style.  

 

Edited September 17 by Funky

[Jayzao]

Has anyone ever seen a home-made or mass produced studded tire that could be used on an EUC?
This season will be our first winter on EUCs, and the thought is daunting, to say the least. 
We did not ride our hyper-scooters in winter because of similar fears. 

[goatman]

mike likes bald

 

 

[Phonoman]

22 hours ago, Jayzao said:

Has anyone ever seen a home-made or mass produced studded tire that could be used on an EUC?
This season will be our first winter on EUCs, and the thought is daunting, to say the least. 
We did not ride our hyper-scooters in winter because of similar fears. 

AFAIK, it's DIY or bust. Either invest time and tools and stud the tires yourself by checking some videos and reading some safety precautions on it (like which studs, probably a sealant in case it's punctured, etc) or carefully ride with a knobby. 

[Funky]

All one needs to DIY stud a tire is a drill and a empty screwdriver without bit at the end. Put the tire stud inside screwdriver and push it in tire - where you drilled the pocket hole. (Don't drill true tire.. Just make a small pocket..)

Or get knobby tire which has those small slits in tire. Then you won't need to drill even. You can use those slits.

 

Mine looks the same - i just used those smaller > < > > << Slits. Not ~~ ~ ~ ~~ Slits.. ~ ~ where to big and studs fell out over time. < < > < Slits where perfect.

Edited September 18 by Funky