S22 Pro vs. Sherman S

[Weatherman159]

Hi,

I'm having a hard time deciding and I would like your input to help me figure it out.

I own (and quite like) the KS 18XL, but I'm starting to outgrow it. I've been hitting tiltback in places, but really, the biggest issue is that my daily commute doesn't have the best of surfaces, so my knees actually hurt from acting as a suspension.

I've looked at my options, and have come down to the two in the topic listing.

S22 Pro

• +cheaper
• +more mature, since it's basically the version of the S20 that we would all have liked to have come out at release
• +lighter, only weighing about 12kg more than my current 18XL
• +easier to work on
• -the sliders still aren't ideal, but there is a known fix (replace the KS wheels with better ones)
• -less range, but should be enough for me

Sherman S

• +seems better built
• +trolley handle, while still not ideal, seems better than the S22
• +suspension design is better
• -HEAVY - almost double what I am used to
• -expensive
• -new wheel, so new issues may not yet be known

Regarding my usage:

• daily commute, 9km (one way), terrain: roads, sidewalks, bike paths (with tree roots), cobblestones, potholes...
• rides for fun, maximum of 100km I would say
• don't need to carry the wheel anywhere
• I would like whatever I buy to last me a good while, not wanting to replace it anytime soon
• I can stretch my budget to allow for the Sherman S, but it IS a stretch
• Europe, so I get a 2 year warranty on either

Thanks in advance for your help

[meepmeepmayer]

Both are great. Which one do you want? Usually there's a favorite in your head. Pick that one!

My first (and personal) instinct was "Sherman-S!" because I like range... but for a 9km commute, the S22 might be less cumbersome than that 45kg beast. And it's significantly cheaper. So the S22 seems the sensible choice (just my opinion, don't let me get in the way of "But I kind of want the Sherman-S!" if that is the case.)

[Milordas]

seems worth to wait for Sherman 16s  Rummors says there will be 16" wheel. And my needs is exactly the same

Edited March 11, 2023 by Milordas

[Alton Dillon]

I have the S22 and the Sherman S, S22 is better if you don't need the speed or range.  9/10 I take out the S22 unless I know I'm going on a 40+ mile group ride.

[Milordas]

On 3/17/2023 at 4:47 AM, Alton Dillon said:

I have the S22 and the Sherman S, S22 is better if you don't need the speed or range.  9/10 I take out the S22 unless I know I'm going on a 40+ mile group ride.

i suppose S22 Pro version or at least upgraded sliders?

[Weatherman159]

I didn't want to wait for the 16 inch Veteran, because I don't really want to buy a first batch wheel. For those interested, I went with the S22 and I am enjoying it quite a lot - the suspension is amazing and the speed is plenty for me. I have also done basically a range test and I can do 90km with my riding style (and then a few more in 'limp home' mode, which I also got to test today - that was not fun).

[EUC Phenomenon]

On 3/22/2023 at 5:36 AM, Weatherman159 said:

I didn't want to wait for the 16 inch Veteran, because I don't really want to buy a first batch wheel. For those interested, I went with the S22 and I am enjoying it quite a lot - the suspension is amazing and the speed is plenty for me. I have also done basically a range test and I can do 90km with my riding style (and then a few more in 'limp home' mode, which I also got to test today - that was not fun).

Glad to hear you’re enjoying the s22 pro. I’m thinking of buying the pro as my next wheel. Can I ask how the wheel is going? How are you finding the tire? I’ve read that some people have changed the tire because it’s hard to carve on the tire it comes with.

[Weatherman159]

7 hours ago, EUC Phenomenon said:

Glad to hear you’re enjoying the s22 pro. I’m thinking of buying the pro as my next wheel. Can I ask how the wheel is going? How are you finding the tire? I’ve read that some people have changed the tire because it’s hard to carve on the tire it comes with.

Yeah, a couple hundred kms later, this thing is all I wanted and more. Once I got used to the weight, it is surprisingly nimble as well. And the stock tire is honestly fine - I was also thinking of changing it at first, but I've gotten used to it and I can carve on it now without issues. I'm keeping it, because although I mostly ride on road, I can go offroad without worrying too much and I know the tire will manage. I also come across various road hazards from loose gravel to broken glass daily and I feel that the offroad tire is a lot less likely to get punctured by said glass/slip on the gravel.

It takes a bit to get it moving and stopped due to inertia, but I have a set of Grizzlas sitting on my workbench waiting to get installed, and I think those will resolve the issue.

The only minor thing is the wheel has developed a squeak. It's only audible when trolleying, because while riding it's covered by air rushing/tire noise. I suspect bearings, because it squeaks at a certain point in every rotation, so I'm probably going to take it in to the local shop that does EUC's and have them take a look at it. But honestly, I think most wheels develop bearing issues sooner or later, due to the lack of quality parts/quality control on the manufacturing side.

[superox]

I'm in the same boat. I really like the 16X, but my body is not so young anymore, so I could really do with a suspension. More range, 100 km realistic would be nice, too. On the other hand, a small wheel like 16X can be easily brought to public transport which sort of extends its range by quite a lot.

I've been looking at the Sherman S. The suspension seems good. The build looks fair enough. But... I just don't love it. It's innovative, but there are signs that the designers just didn't think it out properly. Like, what's up with the stupid pedals? Terrible trolley handle? No overpower tiltback (as far as I understand)? Only beeps, and the beeper shuts ups when it gets some moisture in it? It's frustrating, and not confidence-inspiring.

I like the V13 much better as far as quality. It seems like it's been designed by serious, grown up people. But the size... and range. Tough.

Patton seems cool, but I think I'd like 18-20" wheel better.

I'm actually thinking about S19 too. If it's small and easily manageable enough, and could fit underneath a seat in a train, that would seem to be a decent replacement for 16X as far as knee arthritis is concerned.

Edited April 11, 2023 by superox

[Hellkitten]

@superox Why not a V11?

[Bustapalapno]

I've got lots of miles on both the S22 and the Sherman-S. Given the criteria and preferences you stated, I would suggest the S22 Pro. I wouldn't consider build quality a problem for either wheel. The S22 had some teething issues, but it's mostly sorted out. The Sherman-S may still yet have some issues but I think it is unlikely at this point. 

There are many small advantages and disadvantages to each wheel. A trolley handle here (s22 better), and headlight there (s22 also better), some marginally better suspension (win for Sherman-S), or a faster top speed (Sherman-S) but at the end of the day there is one huge differentiator, battery size. 

The Sherman-S is huge, high, and heavy. The S22 is a much more manageable and enjoyable weight for most types of riding. If you don't need the range of the Sherman-S or the speed of a Master, I think the S22 Pro is the most enjoyable wheel to ride, full stop. I bought the Sherman-S because I ride hilly, twisty roads and I never want to have to think about battery or PWM. My riding partner is on an S22 and I can confidently say I would enjoy the ride more on an S22 Pro for the first 20 miles, and be annoyed after that. 

[Cassy0110]

I suppose it's obvious  I'd better choose Sherman.

[GottaWay]

I don't believe the Sherman models have PWM tiltback, like KS and Inmotion have. That's a safety feature I'd want. Begode wheels can at least have it added via Freestyler's firmware.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong,  please. 

[Milordas]

do you consider that Sherman S only have one side suspension working? as it have one blue knob for softness and red for rebound. KS S22 working both sides as one as there only one suspension is in the center.. Also i dont like thin plastic battery cover from motor side on Serman S - definetly seems carbon/glassfiber board is needed there

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Milordas

[Bustapalapno]

1 hour ago, Milordas said:

do you consider that Sherman S only have one side suspension working? as it have one blue knob for softness and red for rebound. KS S22 working both sides as one as there only one suspension is in the center.. Also i dont like thin plastic battery cover from motor side on Serman S - definetly seems carbon/glassfiber board is needed there

 

Not sure why you need sturdier material on the wheel-side of the battery boxes. I don't work for a repair shop, but I don't see a lot of damage to EUC wheel-wells on the forums or in my riding community. I am fine saving a few pounds and a few dollars with the plastic. Fiber reinforced nylon would definitely be preferred, but I don't think it is "needed."

I definitely have some long term concerns about the separated suspension not being bridged properly. But in riding the Sherman-S for 600 miles, it does not feel like the suspension "only has one side working." The Sherman-S is the smoothest, most well balanced wheel I have ever ridden, including Commander Pro (a very close second), Ex30, S22, and others. 

[Milordas]

you can get a stick between wheel and battery case in offroading.. it can cause a big problem to plastic inner plating

[RhoadsNRoses82]

On 3/21/2023 at 3:36 PM, Weatherman159 said:

I didn't want to wait for the 16 inch Veteran, because I don't really want to buy a first batch wheel. For those interested, I went with the S22 and I am enjoying it quite a lot - the suspension is amazing and the speed is plenty for me. I have also done basically a range test and I can do 90km with my riding style (and then a few more in 'limp home' mode, which I also got to test today - that was not fun).

Just to clarify, do you mean the S22 pro ? or OG s22? I'm particularly curious how your experience has been in comparison to the 18XL, cuz i've been riding the v11 for over a year now and i have been eyeing the S22 pro as my next wheel. My concern is that the S22 pro looks really wide in comparison to the V11 (and by comparison to the 18XL as well), so wondering how much less comfortable that is? also the weight increase, and different type of trolly set up. I really like that I can just press the kill switch under the V11 handle when i need to carry it up any stairs. With the S22 pro it looks like the only way to get it up the stairs is to pick it up with both hands by the handles. how has your experience been in regards to all these things?

[Weatherman159]

9 hours ago, EF95 said:

Just to clarify, do you mean the S22 pro ? or OG s22? I'm particularly curious how your experience has been in comparison to the 18XL, cuz i've been riding the v11 for over a year now and i have been eyeing the S22 pro as my next wheel. My concern is that the S22 pro looks really wide in comparison to the V11 (and by comparison to the 18XL as well), so wondering how much less comfortable that is? also the weight increase, and different type of trolly set up. I really like that I can just press the kill switch under the V11 handle when i need to carry it up any stairs. With the S22 pro it looks like the only way to get it up the stairs is to pick it up with both hands by the handles. how has your experience been in regards to all these things?

So, funny story - I have, in the meantime, gotten rid of the S22 in favor of the Sherman S. But I can still give you some insight into the S22.

I did have the "Pro" version. Regarding width - yes, it was really wide, coming from the 18XL, but I got used to it, just required a slightly different stance. 

The weight - again, you can get used to it, and fairly quickly - it's just a bit different to balance when starting. I got to try a V11 on a group ride a few days ago and it felt tiny and unstable to me. I don't have to carry the wheel up any stairs regularly, so I don't care about the weight in that regard. 

Trolley handle - absolutely terrible. You can somewhat mitigate it by trolleying backwards, but even then the wheel has an annoying tendency to fall over, accelerate and crash into things. Do not recommend. There is a 3D printed handle that appears to mitigate some of the issues, but I never had a chance to try it so can't comment. 

One additional point - the suspension sliders. I rode mine very gently, no big jumps, mostly paved roads, and after 400 miles 4 of the slider wheels needed replacement. If you don't mind doing maintenance, it's a good wheel for trails, jumps etc. - all the technical riders I know ride an S22. Otherwise, my recommendation would be to look at something else.

[RhoadsNRoses82]

10 hours ago, Weatherman159 said:

So, funny story - I have, in the meantime, gotten rid of the S22 in favor of the Sherman S. But I can still give you some insight into the S22.

I did have the "Pro" version. Regarding width - yes, it was really wide, coming from the 18XL, but I got used to it, just required a slightly different stance. 

The weight - again, you can get used to it, and fairly quickly - it's just a bit different to balance when starting. I got to try a V11 on a group ride a few days ago and it felt tiny and unstable to me. I don't have to carry the wheel up any stairs regularly, so I don't care about the weight in that regard. 

Trolley handle - absolutely terrible. You can somewhat mitigate it by trolleying backwards, but even then the wheel has an annoying tendency to fall over, accelerate and crash into things. Do not recommend. There is a 3D printed handle that appears to mitigate some of the issues, but I never had a chance to try it so can't comment. 

One additional point - the suspension sliders. I rode mine very gently, no big jumps, mostly paved roads, and after 400 miles 4 of the slider wheels needed replacement. If you don't mind doing maintenance, it's a good wheel for trails, jumps etc. - all the technical riders I know ride an S22. Otherwise, my recommendation would be to look at something else.

interesting, very valuable input here thank you!