Commuter versus Off Road setting explained (at least for V8F)

[rcgldr]

For V8F: commuter mode slows the rate of tilt, while off road allows near instant tilt. At 100%, since there is virtually no tilt, commuter and off road modes are the same. The difference only shows up at lower pedal settings.

I'm wondering if other's reading this can test this on other Inmotion EUCs: V10F, V11, V12.

How to test this:

If I hold my V8F by the handle and try to wiggle it front|back at commuter + 10%, there's no visible wiggle, but at off road + 10%, I can easily wiggle it. If I stand on it with commuter + 10%, and idle with support, I get tilt but the rate of tilt is slow and not that much, but at off road + 10%, the tilt is almost instant.

I was watching Marty Backe's videos of the V13 and I was wondering why I couldn't duplicate the wiggle that Marty Backe got on a V13 at 0%, which led me to try switching from commuter + 10%  to off road + 10%, which did allow me to duplicate the wiggle.

Marty Backe has been recently making videos with a V13 loaned to him for testing | review, and mis-understood softness setting, mistakenly thinking that setting softness to 0% meant hard mode, when what he wanted was 100%. The setting descriptions could be improved to avoid issues like this, the sensitivity setting should be described as pedal "hardness". He was able to significantly wiggle the V13 front|back very quickly via the handle, or while riding by wiggling his legs, something that I could never reproduce on my V8F until I tried off road mode after watching his video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtYUKtVaCp4&t=1180s

 

[rcgldr]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:40 PM, rcgldr said:

For V8F: commuter mode slows the rate of tilt, while off road allows near instant tilt. At 100%, since there is virtually no tilt, commuter and off road modes are the same. The difference only shows up at lower pedal settings.

If I hold my V8F by the handle and try to wiggle it front|back at commuter + 10%, there's no visible wiggle, but at off road + 10%, I can easily wiggle it. If I stand on it with commuter + 10%, and idle with support, I get tilt but the rate of tilt is slow and not that much, but at off road + 10%, the tilt is almost instant.

I was watching Marty Backe's videos of the V13 and I was wondering why I couldn't duplicate the wiggle that Marty Backe got on a V13 at 0%, which led me to try switching from commuter + 10%  to off road + 10%, which did allow me to duplicate the wiggle.

Marty Backe ... able to significantly wiggle the V13 front|back very quickly via the handle, or while riding by wiggling his legs, something that I could never reproduce on my V8F until I tried off road mode after watching his video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtYUKtVaCp4&t=1180s

 

On my V8F, I'm trying pedal setting 0%, mode off-road again. I want to see if this helps reduce peak current due to going over small bumps or dips (mostly when riding on a incline), since it would allow the V8F to tilt a bit without instantly trying to accelerate or decelerate. I won't know if it helps until I've done a few runs at a known location.

Edited May 21, 2023 by rcgldr

[rcgldr]

18 hours ago, rcgldr said:

On my V8F, I'm trying pedal setting 0%, mode off-road again. I want to see if this helps reduce peak current due to going over bumps or dips (mostly when riding on a incline), since it would allow the V8F to tilt a bit without instantly trying to accelerate or decelerate. I won't know if it helps until I've done a few runs at a known location.

I did some testing and didn't notice any difference in peak current. The small bumps I tested are seam transitions from cement to asphalt. Doing a rethink on this, if a small bump causes an EUC to slightly slow, then balancing would quickly react to regain speed, despite pedal setting. 

Another issue is I don't know what the V8F is reporting for current and if it has a separate read out for peak current or the peak current is just what the V8F happens to be sensing at the time it's sending current data to the app. 

I switched back to 100% pedal setting, commuter mode.

Edited May 21, 2023 by rcgldr

[mrelwood]

On 5/21/2023 at 5:00 AM, rcgldr said:

Doing a rethink on this, if a small bump causes an EUC to slightly slow, then balancing would quickly react to regain speed, despite pedal setting. 

I guess it makes sense for the wheel to react instantly to fast changes in the shell tilt angle. But if the tilting force remains (like it does in an acceleration), only then does the pedal mode settings come into play and the wheel lets itself tilt a bit.

 The GotWay soft mode did this quite clearly; The ride mode felt initially hard, but if one kept accelerating, the wheel would tilt forward quite slowly. In KS and IM wheels I haven’t felt a similar delay in the soft mode softness, and the pedals do tilt faster. But still not fast enough to be influenced by bumps and roots.

 The MSX, 16S and V11 all have a clear difference in range depending on the ride mode settings. On the MSX I think it was an added 5km for each step you go softer. So 10km between hard and soft setting.

 The pedal behavior on all wheels is a very complex combination of reaction times and resulting acceleration forces. Makes one appreciate the code.

[rcgldr]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I guess it makes sense for the wheel to react instantly to fast changes in the shell tilt angle. But if the tilting force remains (like it does in an acceleration), only then does the pedal mode settings come into play and the wheel lets itself tilt a bit.

I'm thinking this was what Wrong Way was describing when using medium mode instead of hard mode when riding off road. The EUC will balance as needed, but after balancing, it will allow some tilt instead of further acceleration or deceleration in response to momentary tilts due to bumps or dips. The result would be a smoother ride. As for my V8F, peak current apparently occurs during balancing, but the ride may be smoother.

One annoying issue with the V8F at 0% is that I was getting some pedal tilt back on a very mild decline (1 degree or so), despite the fact I was exerting some forwards torque to maintain speed (12 to 15 mph, so not an actual tilt back warning). Due to the light weight and low power of the V8F, I'm mostly riding Duf style now, using the pedals with just a light touch on the upper pads, so it's going to tilt more due to disturbances than it would if I was gripping the upper pads.

Edited May 22, 2023 by rcgldr

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, rcgldr said:

One annoying issue with the V8F at 0% is that I was getting some pedal tilt back on a very mild decline

That’s strange. Have you calibrated the wheel recently? A bad (or drifted) calibration could have strange effects.

Btw, I just realized that there is a clear difference in pedal modes when going over roots. A soft mode feels like it would struggle behind each root a bit, so it does let some tilting happen due to instant power requirements after all. A hard mode rides definitely more stably over the roots, as the wheel gives out it’s power sooner.

 But it makes little sense to compare the measurements on the V8 with behaviors of other wheel models. It could be that the V8 softness wouldn’t feel like struggling at roots, while it does on other wheels (16S, MSX, V11).