What EUC is the safest and most durable?

[2disbetter]

The more I use an EUC, the more I think the primary focus of these machines should be safety. We need every assurance that these things will not fail while in use. 

After breaking my shoulder on a V12HT this point was driven home to me. 

My answer to this question is the Inmotion V13. However, one area where I feel this is not true is the suspension and the need to perform maintenance on it. 

The Inmotion V13 is the wheel I feel safest on. But I can't help but thing that no suspension means the wheel will be more durable. 

Honestly though, what wheel do you feel you are the safest from having a problem other than your own fault on? 

[BKW]

I don't think I can answer that question technically, especially since I really don't know the technology well with regards to the safety measures in place, so this is just my opinion..

I've been riding EUCs for roughly 4 years now and the only time I got a cut out was on my Sherman Max due to riding in the pouring rain for 4 hours. And even then I had warning signs like the lights flickering and other weird things happening in advance. Regardless of that event, I've found the wheels to be incredibly reliable when it comes to weight and riding. For example, I ride daily doing deliveries with heavy weights on my back and never a cut out on any of my EUCs. Maybe I've been lucky, but I think most of the cut outs from EUCs that don't have any abnormal defects are due to the rider's error (pushing too hard with too low of battery, riding in the rain, putting an excessive and unnecessary amount of strain on the motor, etc). Considering my personal experiences so far, I'd say if you have a defect-free EUC and you combine that with a brain for safety, and just be mindful of possible scenarios that could cut out the wheel, you'll be safe nearly 100% of the time.

My concerns aren't really cut outs anymore as much as it is tinkering with the electronics/batteries, etc., all of which could cause disaster as you need all components working to stay upright and not crash. So, once again, if the wheel is defect-free from the manufacturer, and you don't do really dumb stuff with it, I wouldn't worry too much about cut outs unless you start messing with the electronics, etc., and even then you'd be safe if you know what you're doing.

Oh, I'd also like to mention if your wheel starts acting funny -- like, for instance, my Sherman Max started doing free spins randomly in stores after 13K miles -- then you should definitely replace parts or find out what is causing the issue and fix it. This is also what contributes to cut outs and the like. After I changed my control board on my Sherman Max after those weird things happening, I haven't had any issues with it.

Edited July 10 by BKW

[alcatraz]

Good question 2disbetter. I'd also like to know.

Most km ridden without incident speaks to me.

I watch a lot of electronic repairs on youtube and these guys that fix hundreds of laptops a week say that if the owner/somebody has been inside tinkering it reduces the chance of fixing it significantly. From 80% to 20% or something like that.

Because malfunction can lead to faceplant I don't really view eucs like motorcycles/cars, I don't really care about what those repair guys consider safe practice is.

So ideally I'd love to just buy a wheel model with an outstanding track record of km ridden between failures, and one that has never/rarely been opened or dropped hard. (no cracks) 

But until we get to that level of perfection, I'm going to be just as anxious (if not more) about new wheels having bugs in them. Time bombs waiting to happen. Until we get there I'd rather ride an older wheel with a great record. I'd gladly open it and inspect everything.

I'd be anxious if it can't (or it's too much trouble to) be opened to check for contamination/liquid damage.

Wheels like the Kingsong 18S inspires confidence because that wheel has been modded to long distance by many enthusiasts. I've also seen modded S18 and Gotway MSX. I believe though that the 18S still holds the crown.

[BKW]

4 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Good question 2disbetter. I'd also like to know.

Most km ridden without incident speaks to me.

I watch a lot of electronic repairs on youtube and these guys that fix hundreds of laptops a week say that if the owner/somebody has been inside tinkering it reduces the chance of fixing it significantly. From 80% to 20% or something like that.

Because malfunction can lead to faceplant I don't really view eucs like motorcycles/cars, I don't really care about what those repair guys consider safe practice is.

So ideally I'd love to just buy a wheel model with an outstanding track record of km ridden between failures, and one that has never/rarely been opened or dropped hard. (no cracks) 

But until we get to that level of perfection, I'm going to be just as anxious (if not more) about new wheels having bugs in them. Time bombs waiting to happen. Until we get there I'd rather ride an older wheel with a great record. I'd gladly open it and inspect everything.

I'd be anxious if it can't (or it's too much trouble to) be opened to check for contamination/liquid damage.

Wheels like the Kingsong 18S inspires confidence because that wheel has been modded to long distance by many enthusiasts. I've also seen modded S18 and Gotway MSX. I believe though that the 18S still holds the crown.

Yeah, I agree about the anxious part even after what I said previously. I'm always anxious with a new/fixed/updated wheel until I've "tested" it by riding it in many situations and variables.

To answer the OP's question more precisely, like I said, I don't know all the wheels or their safety specs in detail, but I'd venture to say if a specific EUC model has been tested thoroughly by other riders over time, and no issues have been reported, I would consider that specific model/brand most "safe" when comparing to others within the market (broad but accurate answer).

[Frolic0415]

KingSong 16x, most durable wheel I've ridden

[daniel1234]

Durability and safety dosent go really hand in hand. And only time can tell if something is or isnt, what the manufacturer claims. When something is old it is no longer "trendy".

16x have good reputation to be durable. 

I have almost 0 issues after 3 years with S18, but I would not recommend it in the current marketplace. But it never drops me without reason so I ride it without pads. To me seems "safest", even though is underpowered. The fact that s18 doesn't let you go crazy fast makes me ride safer. Is it durable out of box, hell no...

Lynx seems like a safe product but is heavy and not as sturdy/durable as it seems.  
 

[BKW]

28 minutes ago, Frolic0415 said:

KingSong 16x, most durable wheel I've ridden

I've had issues with the KS16X motherboard, but this was likely due to my own fault by riding in wet and rainy conditions in the past. So I think this would apply to any EUC. I've also almost experienced a cut out due to its lighter specs, but this only happened once, which probably had a lot to do with me ignoring the battery and other constraints at the time.

Edited July 11 by BKW

[slippyfeet]

 can vouch for the 16S and 18XL as well, zero problems with both.
16S acquired secondhand last month with a lot of surface scratches & 300km, 100% functioning.
18XL new, 7000km in 2 years, 100% functioning.

[Rawnei]

Inmotion fooled you once and you still ready to trust them?

My gut feeling is that LeaperKim has the best track record and reliability.

[alcatraz]

I like seeing ads like this. 17600km on the odometer and working fine.

[on one]

18 hours ago, 2disbetter said:

The more I use an EUC, the more I think the primary focus of these machines should be safety. We need every assurance that these things will not fail while in use.

I love that you made this point. Owning and operating an EUC requires about the same level of responsibility of owning a fire arm. We should continue to foster a culture of safety.

I can't really provide a reference to a single manufacturer and model that is the safest. Make sure you have pedals large enough to accommodate your entire foot. At least wear your helmet and wrist guards. I'm sorry that you broke your shoulder, but at least you didn't get a brain injury. Broken shoulders heal.

[2disbetter]

5 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Inmotion fooled you once and you still ready to trust them?

My gut feeling is that LeaperKim has the best track record and reliability.

Solid question. While the V12HT just died on me in mid ride, there were signs that I ignored. I left the wheel on leaning up against a wall for about 6 hours on accident. When I came back to it, the thing was CRAZY hot. Afterwards the balancing of the wheel back and forth was off and funky. I ignored all this because I just really liked the wheel. I've learned my lesson. 

On the flipside, the V13 I don't think could do that. But I don't see any other EUC company talking so much about safety. And honestly while Veteran makes good EUCs, they have almost no company presence. I don't think I wheel that can hurl me 70mph down the street can feel like a no name company without a support infrastructure. Inmotion is the closest I have seen to a company trying to behave the way a company making products like this should. 

Maybe it is all for show, but I just feel like, these companies need to get up to the same levels as car companies. 

The heavier the wheel the more stable it is, but on the flipside the more in motion in the event of crash that is deadly. 

So a heavy suspended EUC is the safest but not without consequences. 

Does anyone think I am wrong about the V13? Does Leperkim do it better? Why do you think so? 

[Rawnei]

14 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

Solid question. While the V12HT just died on me in mid ride, there were signs that I ignored. I left the wheel on leaning up against a wall for about 6 hours on accident. When I came back to it, the thing was CRAZY hot. Afterwards the balancing of the wheel back and forth was off and funky. I ignored all this because I just really liked the wheel. I've learned my lesson. 

On the flipside, the V13 I don't think could do that. But I don't see any other EUC company talking so much about safety. And honestly while Veteran makes good EUCs, they have almost no company presence. I don't think I wheel that can hurl me 70mph down the street can feel like a no name company without a support infrastructure. Inmotion is the closest I have seen to a company trying to behave the way a company making products like this should. 

Maybe it is all for show, but I just feel like, these companies need to get up to the same levels as car companies. 

The heavier the wheel the more stable it is, but on the flipside the more in motion in the event of crash that is deadly. 

So a heavy suspended EUC is the safest but not without consequences. 

Does anyone think I am wrong about the V13? Does Leperkim do it better? Why do you think so? 

But all that talk is hollow, it's marketing, their wheels have a pretty high failure rate and have plenty of problems, V12HS was released with underspecced motherboard they had to replace most of them (and let the customer find out and initiate this process, no recall), V12HT still dropping people on their ass to this day causing them to crash, V13 had problems with motorbolts sheering off (is this fixed?), moisture inside display and other things. A lot of their wheels had software problems related to safety features (alarms and tiltback), so maybe they had some good intent but flawed execution and the reality is far from what their marketing wants us to think.

If we disregard the Abrams I haven't heard of many problems with LeaperKim wheels except for smaller early batch things which they are on top and fix fast, I've owned all of them except the Abrams and they have been super reliable and problem free.

[2disbetter]

Things like the motorbolts, are an issue of the bolts used, not a failure of engineering. I agree that it is troubling. But sense Leperkim is not free of issues either, I think the issue of the bolts is not something that normally would have an issue with. I got the new bolts, but I still haven't replaced them, and I have no indication that it is even a problem. 

Still not saying it is ok. With the cost of these wheels, things like this should not be possible. 

I'm going to be visiting family in Atlanta soon, and maybe I'll be able to hook up with someone running a Lynx. I am really thinking about pulling the trigger on that. I just feel like Inmotion is far more polished. 

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, 2disbetter said:

I'm going to be visiting family in Atlanta soon, and maybe I'll be able to hook up with someone running a Lynx. I am really thinking about pulling the trigger on that. I just feel like Inmotion is far more polished. 

That's the thing, it's marketing, they are great at affecting your perception, if you see a Lynx or Sherman S in real life you will see the quality and how robust they are, if you ride one you will feel how good it feels.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

39 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

That's the thing, it's marketing, they are great at affecting your perception, if you see a Lynx or Sherman S in real life you will see the quality and how robust they are, if you ride one you will feel how good it feels.

Yeah, no problems with any of those wheels.... Just disregard the lack of an IP rating the cut outs in batch one for the lynx and now the massive play in back and forth from the wheel that some are experiencing.  The bottom line is every manufacture has had problems, it's the nature of the business. Pick your poison.

https://packaged-media.redd.it/3pc8vniixr8d1/pb/m2-res_854p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1720753200&s=37013f50f4e824324eecf6f4ba1e2632e7c2aa6e#t=0

Just a recent example of the "robustness" of the lynx. This one had 1k miles on it.

[Rawnei]

31 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Yeah, no problems with any of those wheels.... Just disregard the lack of an IP rating the cut outs in batch one for the lynx and now the massive play in back and forth from the wheel that some are experiencing.  The bottom line is every manufacture has had problems, it's the nature of the business. Pick your poison.

https://packaged-media.redd.it/3pc8vniixr8d1/pb/m2-res_854p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1720753200&s=37013f50f4e824324eecf6f4ba1e2632e7c2aa6e#t=0

Just a recent example of the "robustness" of the lynx. This one had 1k miles on it.

Maybe you missed it but Lynx is IP rated, not that I personally value those IP ratings that much, people still have various water ingress problems on their wheels despite a "rating" such as moisture in display or rusted bearings, it's usually just some parts they are better protected and tested.

There was 1 case of a Lynx cut out and they fixed that with a firmware update.

Nowhere did I say that LeaperKim has no issues, if you actually read what I wrote it was the contrary.

They still have a great track record and are fast to fix things and don't ignore and hide the problems (unlike Inmotion), and in my 1st hand and 2nd hand experience they have the least amount of problems.

Edited July 11 by Rawnei

[Punxatawneyjoe]

40 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

There was 1 case of a Lynx cut out and they fixed that with a firmware update.

yes and there was 1 case with broken axle bolts on the v13 with idiots that used an impact gun on them , but that doesn't stop you from mentioning that does it?

My point still stands, no manufacturer is without problems and we get it , you hate Inmotion wheels. But you were making your case for lynx and Sherman s how great they were and how crappy Inmotion wheels are and i just figured I'd bring you up to speed on your beloved leaper kim wheels. It wasn't just "smaller early batch things" there is currently a serious problem with play in the wheel on the frame. Racers have pointed it out. the Sherman s was plagued with problems, bearings,rubbing suspension,misaligned motors etc. and no maybe i didn't " miss it ". I was referring to the Sherman s on waterproofing. It's actually nice to see manufacturers coping Inmotion with progressive tilt back,batter battery management,IP protections,acceleration and braking assist,wire management just to name a few. Maybe someday they will be able to engineer a modular wheel with a super fast tire change like the v14.

 

 

[Rawnei]

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

yes and there was 1 case with broken axle bolts on the v13 with idiots that used an impact gun on them , but that doesn't stop you from mentioning that does it?

Huh no it was a widespread issue, they even recommended people not riding them and wait for replacement bolts that they sent out, my friend had this problem.

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

and we get it , you hate Inmotion wheels.

That is very mature of you.

Imagine this, you ordered a V12HS, it takes 2-3 months to arrive, you ride it for maybe 2 weeks and you find out there is a problem with the motherboard having underspecced components so that the wheel can suddenly and randomly cut out worst case scenario, community and resellers pushing Inmotion to do something about and the general advice from the resellers is to not ride the wheel until this issue is fixed, finally Inomotion acknowledges the problem and promises a fix due to pressure from the community and will later a replacement program for the motherboard, you send your wheel in to the reseller and and wait to get it back with a new motherboard, that's a total of 6 months not riding brand new wheel due to design flaw, that was my situation and this problem was not just an early batch problem.

Imagine you buy a V12HT, you're happy with your wheel, suddenly it throws you backwards randomly for no reason, this happened to 2 of my friends, one of them got his wheel refunded the other one broke his ankle, it happened to WrongWay he spoke in a video about it, there are more people here on the forums and Facebook talking about this issue, no acknowledgment from Inmotion that this issue exists to this day and not sure if they fixed it but it was happening to brand new V12HT's as late as November last year from my knowledge, when my friends contacted Inmotion they didn't give any clear reason and just sent a new motherboard for the customer to replace, anyone who had this issue does not have trust for their wheel anymore.

I also had an early batch V11, I rode a total of 2 times (not even in rain) before bearings seized and I had to wait for a new motor (2 months delivery time), this was a widespread issue on early batches, you can write this one off as early batch issues because they fixed this on later batches but it's worth mentioning. V11 also had firmware bugs related to alarms and tiltback (I believe V12 had similar bugs which caused some accidents).

Now also imagine that you have owned every LeaperKim wheel that existed (except the Abrams) and the only problem was that one of them (Early Batch Sherman Max) had too little silicone around the motor wire which was an easy fix you could do yourself, now also imagine you have a bunch of friends with different LeaperKim wheels that are completely trouble free, if you have the ability to imagine this maybe you can sympathize with my perspective.

And have you ever heard of a LeaperKim wheel battery fire? I haven't, not a single battery fire reported in the fire history thread, not even one.

[Rawnei]

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

there is currently a serious problem with play in the wheel on the frame.

No there isn't any serious problem.

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Racers have pointed it out. the Sherman s was plagued with problems

Really, please show your sources, Sherman S is a beloved wheel, I know multiple Sherman S owners, no problems at all, same on the forum here.

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Maybe someday they will be able to engineer a modular wheel with a super fast tire change like the v14.

Lynx has very fast tire change, you just remove one side battery and you have access to the tire.

You only own Inmotion wheels so it's pretty apparent that you are biased and at this point it seems more likely that you are just trolling with these remarks, can't really take you seriously.

Edited July 12 by Rawnei

[2disbetter]

Gentlemean, let's simmer down. I value both of your inputs. But this in ability to have a clear opinion on this is part of the main issue. I think Inmotion is doing a lot of things for the EUC market, but I think Leperkim is as well. 

I just wish there was more in the way of quality control on these wheels. I wish there was more material about how to check and inspect our wheels. I mean these things are so awesome, but I don't want to die on one. 

10 hours ago, Rawnei said:

That's the thing, it's marketing, they are great at affecting your perception, if you see a Lynx or Sherman S in real life you will see the quality and how robust they are, if you ride one you will feel how good it feels.

I hope so. I ordered a Sherman Max initially to my brother in Atlanta. Couldn't get it shipped to me, so it is still there. So I will see first hand there about this. I hope that I can try a Lynx though. 

I do not like the V14 because I think it looks stupid. The V13 combined with a Lynx would be the pinnacle of utilitarian practical design. 

[Rawnei]

16 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

Gentlemean, let's simmer down. I value both of your inputs. But this in ability to have a clear opinion on this is part of the main issue. I think Inmotion is doing a lot of things for the EUC market, but I think Leperkim is as well. 

I just wish there was more in the way of quality control on these wheels. I wish there was more material about how to check and inspect our wheels. I mean these things are so awesome, but I don't want to die on one. 

I hope so. I ordered a Sherman Max initially to my brother in Atlanta. Couldn't get it shipped to me, so it is still there. So I will see first hand there about this. I hope that I can try a Lynx though. 

I do not like the V14 because I think it looks stupid. The V13 combined with a Lynx would be the pinnacle of utilitarian practical design. 

Well general advice and manufacturer independent, try not to buy early batch wheels, that way you can both avoid early batch problems and get a sense of if there is any serious issues with a new model.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Now also imagine that you have owned every LeaperKim wheel that existed (except the Abrams)

Ha ha!

I am in the complete opposite scenario. The only Leaper Kim wheel I own or have owned is the Abrams. LOL.

Other than a couple of poor design choices, the wheel was well built. I think the Abrams is better suited for riders who are bigger and heavier than me.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Now also imagine that you have owned every LeaperKim wheel that existed (except the Abrams) and the only problem was that one of them (Early Batch Sherman Max) had too little silicone around the motor wire which was an easy fix you could do yourself, now also imagine you have a bunch of friends with different LeaperKim wheels that are completely trouble free, if you have the ability to imagine this maybe you can sympathize with my perspective.

And have you ever heard of a LeaperKim wheel battery fire? I haven't, not a single battery fire reported in the fire history thread, not even one.

I think they must have sent all the good ones to Sweden.. I am not saying Inmotion is without problems or the Sherman s was a junk wheel. I was just saying that all manufacturers have had issues on first/second batch wheels. It's not exclusive to Inmotion. I understand your perspective and can appreciate the gravity of what you have unfortunately endured. Yes, i am bias towards Inmotion wheels because even with a few batch issues on a few wheels in my opinion they remain the leaders of the pack as far as innovation and engineering goes and have had great luck with their wheels apart from a few early batch issues that were immediately addressed with the v13. You are obviously bias towards leaper kim wheels and it seems like for good reason so we will have to agree to disagree. I never said those wheels were junk, i think they are better made than others but not without problems. Lastly i think you make a good point about battery fires, i hadn't thought of that aspect.

[Anthraksi]

I might also be biased as well, but even if you view things objectively, LK probably has the best track record of all of them. One bad wheel but the rest are solid. 0 reported battery fires. Though LK is the youngest company of the current ones so they didn’t really have to deal with the early shit.

Lynx has had a couple problems, biggest ones being the calibration issues and the front light being a bit shit. Front light has been fixed, but some people are still reporting calibration issues which are pretty hard to document and they have been having issues with getting it covered under warranty. Not sure if thats more on the retailer than LK.

I don’t think the Sherman S had many issues either. The suspension might rub on the battery case even on later models but I havent seen that cause any issues, its the plastic wire cover rubbing on the magnesium battery case so it has 0 impact on anything. Its not good either, but it also has 0 impact on anything as well. The motor being misaligned is a user error when changing the tire. There are instructional videos how to realign it and avoid it in the future.

I also don’t recall many issues with the Patton either, but as always on new wheels, if you want to avoid issues don’t get first batch.

I got 5000km on the Sherman S and have had 0 issues. Been caught in heavy rain a couple of times with no issues, but I did tear down the wheel and added silicone to the battery and controller boxes to make it even more waterproof for the extra piece of mind.