Fresh newbie here. I seem to be wobbling a whole lot. Is that normal?

[mallowmaru]

Hi, very new to EUC. Only tried for a few days, about 30 minutes at a time. I have an S22. I don't know if that's crazy wheel to start, but this is the deal. I've tried one day with a v10f, and I found that the S22 is far more stable with its fatter tires.

That said, I seem to have an issue, and I haven't seen a lot of beginners, so I don't know if this is normal. As soon as I try to ride, I wobble almost immediately, and I'm unable to keep from hard turning and falling. This is at relatively slow speeds (about walking speeds and a little faster). I've practiced both starting by holding a fence, and kicking off. I've managed to keep it together for a good 10 meters at my best. A lot of times I just lose balance very quickly due to the wobble. (Edit, I'd say about half the time when on fence. I'd be able to keep it steady for like 5 meters before serious wobbling)

I have found that squeezing both knees inward (as if I'm holding my bladder) helps so I'll keep doing that.

Edited July 11, 2023 by mallowmaru

[Funky]

It's natural to wobble at beginning. (Especially if you accelerate and brake fast.) Anything under 1000km ridden you count as beginner.

Lowering tire PSI can help decreasing wobbles. What PSI are you ridding at the moment and your weight?

I personally could not ride anything over 28psi for first ~300km.. As soon as i got near 20mph, it started to wobble.. Keeping it under 28psi fixed that issue for me. After the 300km ridden mark - i was used to ridding already and could ride what ever PSI i wanted.

 

Also try riding like this ~~~~~left~~~~~right~~~~~. Don't go completely in straight line ----------- that increases the probability to get wobbles.

Even little bit of shifting weight to right/left are good enough. Take your arms length and ride left/right in that distance, when you're going on somewhat straight path.

 

Ride at least 200-500km and all these "problems" will disappear.  (Also riding/learning off-road, not completely smooth ground - increases the speed you learn.)

Edited July 11, 2023 by Funky

[mallowmaru]

Thank you. Given how fast I fall over I am probably still well under 1km. I'm 135lbs. I think my tires are at 40PSI. Although, I don't have a gauge, just a bike pump.

[Funky]

28 minutes ago, mallowmaru said:

Thank you. Given how fast I fall over I am probably still well under 1km. I'm 135lbs. I think my tires are at 40PSI. Although, I don't have a gauge, just a bike pump.

I'm 280lbs and i rode 28psi.. You can easily go down to 25-30psi.

1/3 third of tire should somewhat compress under your weight. (Check in mirror while standing on euc.) Then you know you're got somewhat "softer" tire. At your weight even 30psi will be rock solid.. 

40psi right from gecko.. No wonder you get wobbles. I bet it even feels like you're riding on knife edge. (Euc wants to go left/right, like it has it's own mind.) Because rock solid tire - only middle of tire get contact on ground. Softer tire - bigger contact area - less wobbles.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Funky

[Poker]

It gets easier to balance the faster you are driving btw, learning at walking speed is like learning on hard mode

[Funky]

Can't say much about riding. - I didn't have any problems riding.

My biggest problem was free mounting. Took me 4 days, 20 min each day to mount it and start riding. First ride i was already going in circles.. (My mistake - i wasn't leaning forwards enough, i was balancing in place - till i fall over. Both feet on pedals.) I didn't ride even once, before i learned to mount it.

You literally need to do "trust fall" but forwards.  To start going.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Funky

[rcgldr]

It would be better to try to learn at a bit faster speed, but for a beginner to ride at slow speed, normally the rider extends arms, and twists the EUC side to side to steer it for balance and direction control. This will be difficult on a 77 lb S22 versus a 35 lb V8F which is what I started with and still my only EUC almost 2 years later, since this is just a hobby for me as I'm an old retired guy (71 years old). The how to ride videos mention that it going a bit faster will make it easier to learn. At sufficient speed, around 7 mph in the case of my V8F, an EUC will become self-stable and balance corrections won't be needed to ride in a straight line. At stable speeds, riders normally turn by tilting an EUC left  or right instead of twisting it. It will take a while to coordinate how much to tilt the EUC versus how much the rider leans. At slow speed, an EUC is tilted more than the rider leans, and higher speeds, an EUC is tilted less than the rider leans.

After about 20 minutes of the normal beginner stuff (using support to mount, rock back and forth, short runs), I ventured away from a screened in fence (essentially a wall) arm flailing at 3 to 5 mph, which I wouldn't recommend, but I was able to do a lap then laps around a tennis court on my first try, since the light weight of my V8F made this easier. My wife took a video on the next day, but essentially the same thing. I didn't realize I was hunched over until I saw the video, which I corrected afterwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPyy84EThmM

I moved to a long straight where I could ride a bit faster, and that is when I discovered I no longer had to make balance corrections, and could relax and lower my arms. I then learned to tilt steer (inner foot down, outer foot up). I waited until day 5 before I did free mount. My wife took a video on day 10, and from the headlight beam, you can see how stable my V8F become.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keDvRMScO1g

My turning kept improving over time, mostly during the first couple of months (30 minutes a day, 3 days a week).

A better example of all of this is Kuji's how to ride video where he teaches a girl to ride on a V8. She's probably going 5 mph or so (a bit faster than walking speed) at first, then 8 mph or so later.  I set the time to where she's just able to ride a short distance, using extended arms at around 5 mph or so, but at 8:07 into the video, she's increased her speed to 8 mph or so, enough for the V8 to become stable and she's tilt steering. She bailed trying a speed bump, but skips trying to learn it and continues. If you go to the start of the video, Kuji mentions setting tire pressure to 25 psi, but that is due to the girl's light weight. A heavier rider would start at 30 to 35 psi. Kuji also mentions pressing with the inner toe to turn, but if a rider really did this, it would cause an EUC to accelerate. The idea is to tilt the EUC (inner foot down, outer foot up), which will turn  due to camber effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6o8ZMlo5ko&t=412s

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by rcgldr

[mallowmaru]

@Funky Thank you greatly for your perspective. Didn't know how much PSI affected learning.

@Poker I reduced the EUC to learning mode and I feel like I'm stalling quite a bit, whereas before I was on the highest setting (previous owner), and I was going quite fast but swerving a LOT. Had one bad crash, but overall I could handle. I feel like I am doing slightly better now but that could come down to experience.

@rcgldr Wow I'm very glad to hear your achievements, especially at such an age. Unfortunately no going back to a lighter wheel now so I'll have to grind my way through it.

[rcgldr]

12 hours ago, mallowmaru said:

@rcgldr Wow I'm very glad to hear your achievements, especially at such an age. Unfortunately no going back to a lighter wheel now so I'll have to grind my way through it.

The key point I was trying to make was to ride a bit faster (jogging speed instead of walking speed) where twisting won't be needed and the weight of the S22 will actually help. Extending your arms outwards will help for balance. 

Using Kuji's how to ride as an example, just like the girl on a V8, use support to mount, then rock back and forth, and while rocked back and leaned forwards, release (don't push) from support, where you will quickly get up to a more stable speed. Try to find a long straight like an outdoor parking lot. I took a picture of the one I used but I don't have a video. I used the two yellow trash bin enclosures for supported mount and launch. Those enclosures are over 550 feet apart, allowing for a 40+ second ride at 8 to 10 mph in a straight line, which was very helpful.

https://rcgldr.net/euc/euc_pklt.jpg

Some riders learn to free mount at the same time they learn to ride, but this can get tiring if you're constantly having to bail and remount, plus the starting speed will be a bit slower at first when learning to free mount. If you learn to ride first using support to mount and launch, free mounting won't be an issue, since you just need to get both feet on and the EUC moving, if you can already ride. As an example of this, Wrong Way had been teaching Kate (Monokat) to ride, and using support to mount and launch she had ridden 60 to 80 km before trying to free mount on a 77 lb Sherman, and she gets it on her second try:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW-y5RiecMc&t=634s

A rider can tilt an EUC for balance at low speeds, but it's more of an advanced skill, and you need to have a loose grip on the upper pads to allow the EUC to tilt enough. Example video (note that his feet are on the outside of the pedals to allow the EUC to tilt more, you see this near the end of the video as he approaches the camera):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4IdImdnUCA

Again, I recommend skipping the slow speed stuff (other than starting and stopping where speed is only slow for brief periods) and try to reach at least jogging speed (5 to 7 mph or so).

Edited July 12, 2023 by rcgldr

[mallowmaru]

Update: Finally got it! It's SO exciting! I can free mount ride straight indefinitely.Yes it was exhausting learning it that way. Took me about 7 days for 30-60 minutes. I think starting with a wall/fence/poll at the start is better.

Honestly, there was no real eureka moment. My body just suddenly "knew" how to do it. No tips or tricks, except that bending my knees forward and contact the top really helped. I think each person will find their own groove.

I will say that I did end up going like 8-10 mph without even realizing the speed. Got wobbly but at around 5-7 it was pretty steady.

I think the larger wheel made it maybe a tad harder and costed me a couple days and a lot more energy, but now that I got it, I don't regret it.

[rcgldr]

1 hour ago, mallowmaru said:

Finally got it!

Congrats.

1 hour ago, mallowmaru said:

Honestly, there was no real eureka moment. My body just suddenly "knew" how to do it.

In my case, when I went fast enough for my V8F to become stable, I was aware that I didn't just suddenly know how to ride, since I was already able to ride at slow speeds with a lot of balance corrections. Instead what I noticed was at sufficient speed and when riding in a straight line, I no longer had to make any balance corrections, relaxed and lowered my arms, and I could essentially just stand still and let the V8F do the balancing for me. This self-correcting for balance is due to having enough speed that the EUC tilting in the direction of imbalance is enough to straighten the rider back up. The EUC turns in response to tilt due to camber effect.

It was at this point that I learned to tilt steer (inner foot down, outer foot up). At first, just small tilts to see how my V8F would respond, then a weave pattern, and finally large radius turns.

1 hour ago, mallowmaru said:

I will say that I did end up going like 8-10 mph without even realizing the speed. Got wobbly but at around 5-7 it was pretty steady.

That was pretty much my experience, but with narrow tire of the V8F (less responsive to tilt), I had to go 7 to 8 mph before it became steady.

As for turning, I did a weave drill on a long straight. I would lean to the left a bit, then tilt my V8F left enough to straighten me back up, and repeat this to the right, weaving while going straight. I then extended the weave by tilting just enough to hold the lean angle for a bit before tilting more to straighten up. I did this over a range of speeds. The point of this was to develop a tilt reaction for balance, such as getting hit by a gusting crosswind.

I used this video of a girl on a S18 as a guide for tilt steering. Unlike a lot of EUC videos, she rides Marty Backe | Duf style, no carving, no twisting, nearly motionless other than tilting the S18 and leaning for turns and very stable. Due to tire parameters, speed, ... , she tilts the S18 less than she leans. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWMwK3Cfs0

Once you can turn reasonably well, learn to be able to look | move around a bit while riding without upsetting balance or changing direction. This is useful when looking for cross-traffic. As an extreme example, this girl swings a back pack around, puts her cell phone in the back pack, then swings it back on while riding:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5HB40I4C3g&t=438s

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by rcgldr

[techyiam]

59 minutes ago, Kingsong Customer Support said:

I work in Kingsong factory,I spent almost one week to learn riding,it was an interesting experience.

S22 is too heavy for beginners, you 'd better ride cheap and lightweight models to learn.after master the riding,enjoy the S22.

Which wheel did you learn to ride on?

[Charg1na]

HI All,

First time poster, been reading for a bit.  I am a novice rider as well.  Thank you to the info here as it is very informative.  Congrats Techy and thank you for starting this thread.

[TheNotoriousEUC]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:23 PM, Poker said:

It gets easier to balance the faster you are driving btw, learning at walking speed is like learning on hard mode

I agree with the first part but not the last. I actually prefer hard/strong mode on my CP. I think I only have about 30 miles on my wheel. I tried medium and hated it. Never even tried soft mode. Hard mode just felt more responsive, instant feedback which lead to faster learning for me. 

[TheNotoriousEUC]

On 7/13/2023 at 8:52 PM, Kingsong Customer Support said:

I work in Kingsong factory,I spent almost one week to learn riding,it was an interesting experience.

S22 is too heavy for beginners, you 'd better ride cheap and lightweight models to learn.after master the riding,enjoy the S22.

Do not agree. Commander Pro is my first wheel. It’s about 100 lbs. I have no problems with it. I was up and riding it in 15 minutes and about another 20 I was able to get up and ride without holding anything to mount it. It was a wobbly mount and start, but I was able to do it. I said this in another thread but comfort of weight is relative to the rider. I have put on about 30 miles on to my wheel and can comfortably start and stop, wobble free (if I’m riding within my level/ability). Still struggling with tighter turning at higher speed but the answer is pretty simple, I slow down until I get better. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by TheNotoriousEUC

[Gkindy]

The first EUC I ever rode (and learned to ride on) was the KingSong S22. Very steep learning curve going from never riding an EUC at all to learning on a suspension wheel ~77 lbs. However, just keep at it and it eventually clicks and is an experience unlike any other! A lot of learning occurs between your practice sessions and you build upon the previous experiences until you finally have the moment where you are riding around for miles and having the time of your life. 

[Poker]

On 7/19/2023 at 4:02 PM, TheNotoriousEUC said:

I agree with the first part but not the last. I actually prefer hard/strong mode on my CP. I think I only have about 30 miles on my wheel. I tried medium and hated it. Never even tried soft mode. Hard mode just felt more responsive, instant feedback which lead to faster learning for me. 

You are absolutely right. Also it was poor choice of words on my part as I wasn't referring to the settings on the euc but rather to imply that you are making it more difficult for yourself to learn if you choose to drive as slow as possible instead of speeding up to running speed.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Poker