KingSong Wheels Never Cause Faceplants - right?

[Marty Backe]

Just to add a little balance to all the Gotway bashing that goes on about faceplants, etc. @Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" KS16B couldn't handle this hill, and blew it's fuse.

This video is for all those KingSong owners that like to comment about Gotway blown MOSFETs that can cause a faceplant. Yes, I agree that I'd rather replace a fuse then a control board, but in both cases your face hits the ground.

BTW, all the KingSing 'S' series of wheels still have fuses, so don't fool yourself into thinking that you are immune to faceplants. I'm looking at your @eddiemoy 

 

[Scott Henley]

And don’t forget my 14D cut out ! 

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, Scott Henley said:

And don’t forget my 14D cut out ! 

If I had a video of your 14D faceplant I would have posted that too 

[Scott Henley]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

If I had a video of your 14D faceplant I would have posted that too 

well here’s the aftermath . 

[Cloud]

Yep. Never say never.   Only 2 hours ago my ks14c hit me with a series of very aggressive tilt backs and no less aggressive come backs to horizontal . It tilted back and forth on me 3-4 times in a row in a matter of about 3 seconds .  If I was any less experienced I’d be on the ground licking my wounds. I am actually suprized I was able to stay upright through this sequence. 

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Cloud said:

Yep. Never say never.   Only 2 hours ago my ks14c hit me with a series of very aggressive tilt backs and no less aggressive come backs to horizontal . It tilted back and forth on me 3-4 times in a row in a matter of about 3 seconds .  If I was any less experienced I’d be on the ground licking my wounds. I am actually suprized I was able to stay upright through this sequence. 

That doesn't sound good. Hopefully there was a reason for the tilt-backs.

[Hatchet]

I don't get the point here. Your example to "equalize" things is an obviously extreme hill that I wouldn't blame any wheel overheating on.

Seems kind of a desperate stretch.

[Cloud]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

That doesn't sound good. Hopefully there was a reason for the tilt-backs.

Yes. Speeding over what the firmware allows. Or more likely the battery voltage drop. However the way these tilt backs come in was uncalled for, too aggressive and a series of 3 in a row?  never say never

[Cloud]

31 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

I don't get the point here. Your example to "equalize" things is an obviously extreme hill that I wouldn't blame any wheel overheating on.

Seems kind of a desperate stretch.

I think you are being too pedantic here) it was just his way of easing into the thread. I don’t think @Marty Backe is tying to knock Kingsong as a brand

[Marty Backe]

32 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

I don't get the point here. Your example to "equalize" things is an obviously extreme hill that I wouldn't blame any wheel overheating on.

Seems kind of a desperate stretch.

You are confirming my point. Regardless of how KingSong's fail, there's always a 'reasonable' explanation.

The two Gotway wheels didn't faceplant their riders on this hill.

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Cloud said:

I think you are being too pedantic here) it was just his way of easing into the thread. I don’t think @Marty Backe is tying to knock Kingsong as a brand

I happen to own a KS14S and love it.

My point is that KingSong wheels are not as infallible as sometimes they are portrayed (by the Gotway haters)

[eddiemoy]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I happen to own a KS14S and love it.

My point is that KingSong wheels are not as infallible as sometimes they are portrayed (by the Gotway haters)

I don’t think it was designed for someone over 200lbs and going up extreme hills.  I’m sure you are right, if users of King Song are extreme as gotway, I’m sure we would see the same amount of issue. 

[mezzanine]

The tribalism towards brands doesn't serve the community well.  I guess it's unavoidable to some degree, but it shouldn't be encouraged/rewarded.  

Newbs come here to try to get objective info about different wheels and are unprepared to have to filter through the personal biases of posters with too much emotional investment in a brand.  If I was a newb, I'd question whether some of y'all are being paid to shill.  

[Jerome]

Other than the firmware problem with the Gotway super v3(?) that caused Marty to crash, are Gotways actually failing under normal everyday riding conditions? By normal I mean: no riding up the insane dirt hills like Marty and crew traverse, no riding at, on beyond the maximum audible/tilt-back warnings, no Jason "ANDs", pushing maximum speed up maximum hill for maximum range. For the "enthusiast" who push their wheels to the limit, I guess some of the Gotway concerns are warranted. EUCs are transport for me. They are recreational only in the sense that they are a joy to ride. In contemplating a new wheel I had all but excluded Gotway because of the bad press, which often came from people who never own one. Now only price has stopped me from going in that direction. I am hoping the Z6 or possibly Z8 will have the price performance qualities I seek. If not I may wait and see if the V10 or KS16S drop in price or ... ?  In all fairness to the KS failures shown-mentioned, they were both older models .. just sayin. 

[Marty Backe]

15 minutes ago, Jerome said:

Other than the firmware problem with the Gotway super v3(?) that caused Marty to crash, are Gotways actually failing under normal everyday riding conditions? By normal I mean: no riding up the insane dirt hills like Marty and crew traverse, no riding at, on beyond the maximum audible/tilt-back warnings, no Jason "ANDs", pushing maximum speed up maximum hill for maximum range. For the "enthusiast" who push their wheels to the limit, I guess some of the Gotway concerns are warranted. EUCs are transport for me. They are recreational only in the sense that they are a joy to ride. In contemplating a new wheel I had all but excluded Gotway because of the bad press, which often came from people who never own one. Now only price has stopped me from going in that direction. I am hoping the Z6 or possibly Z8 will have the price performance qualities I seek. If not I may wait and see if the V10 or KS16S drop in price or ... ?  In all fairness to the KS failures shown-mentioned, they were both older models .. just sayin. 

@Scott Henley's KS14D (a new model) faceplanted him a short while ago. See his bruised-lip picture above. He was not going up insane hills or doing anything out of the ordinary.

IMHO Gotway wheels are not failing during normal everyday use, as you put it.

[Jason McNeil]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

KS16B couldn't handle this hill, and blew it's fuse.

@Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer", I don't understand, you have have the KS18S & GW Monster (ACM as well?) yet you voluntarily still ride a two year old 30kph, 800W KS16B Wheel? Why?! 

@Marty Backe for fairness sake, let's take stock of what GW were pushing out at the same time as this vintage Wheel; a 67v ACM with MOSFETs as fragile as a Song Dynasty vase & motor wires that have the dual-function for making toast on the way up that hill.

Yesterday I made a statement that there's been no reports of a ACMv2 dying, but that this was premature. This morning I received a dreaded 'I received my brand new ACMv2 & within 3 mile it cut-out, no longer turns on'. I wish I could say that the failure rate for GW is now as good as KS, but I'm afraid to say this is not the case. On a statistical basis, there is a 15% chance of a new Tesla/ACM board blowing within the first hour of use, if you make it through this critical danger point, then the likelihood is it's going to hold-up over time. 

 

[mezzanine]

@Marty Backe  Do you get paid by Gotway to post here?

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Jason McNeil said:

@Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer", I don't understand, you have have the KS18S & GW Monster (ACM as well?) yet you voluntarily still ride a two year old 30kph, 800W KS16B Wheel? Why?! 

@Marty Backe for fairness sake, let's take stock of what GW were pushing out at the same time as this vintage Wheel; a 67v ACM with MOSFETs as fragile as a Song Dynasty vase & motor wires that have the dual-function as being able to make toast on the way up that hill.

Yesterday I made a statement that there's been no reports of a ACMv2 dying, but that this was premature. This morning I received a dreaded 'I received my brand new ACMv2 & within 3 mile it cut-out, no longer turns on'. I wish I could say that the failure rate for GW is now as good as KS, but I'm afraid to say this is not the case. On a statistical basis, there is a 15% chance of a new Tesla/ACM board blowing within the first hour of use. This appears to be an issue with their board production.   

 

I'm just having a little fun with this video - doesn't everyone enjoy a little faceplant video every once in awhile (as long as nobody was hurt).

But hey, I'm Gotway's biggest fan, so I feel obligated to splash a little cold-water on the KingSong fanboys 

Your points are well taken of course 

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

@Marty Backe  Do you get paid by Gotway to post here?

I'm pretty sure that Gotway doesn't know that I or many others actually exist.

[meepmeepmayer]

13 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

a 67v ACM with MOSFETs as fragile as a Song Dynasty vase & motor wires that have the dual-function for making toast on the way up that hill.

Funny but true.

[Hatchet]

29 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

@Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer", I don't understand, you have have the KS18S & GW Monster (ACM as well?) yet you voluntarily still ride a two year old 30kph, 800W KS16B Wheel? Why?! 

@Marty Backe for fairness sake, let's take stock of what GW were pushing out at the same time as this vintage Wheel; a 67v ACM with MOSFETs as fragile as a Song Dynasty vase & motor wires that have the dual-function for making toast on the way up that hill.

Yesterday I made a statement that there's been no reports of a ACMv2 dying, but that this was premature. This morning I received a dreaded 'I received my brand new ACMv2 & within 3 mile it cut-out, no longer turns on'. I wish I could say that the failure rate for GW is now as good as KS, but I'm afraid to say this is not the case. On a statistical basis, there is a 15% chance of a new Tesla/ACM board blowing within the first hour of use, if you make it through this critical danger point, then the likelihood is it's going to hold-up over time. 

 

Holy hell that's a pretty high chance of failure for such expensive items, after so many generations of wheels.

@Jason McNeilhaving seen the improvements GW posted for the MSX (new mosfets, etc) do you think they finally have robust enough innards in this new wheel? It's the first time I even considered buying a GW.

[eddiemoy]

Just now, Hatchet said:

Holy hell that's a pretty high chance of failure for such expensive items, after so many generations of wheels.

@Jason McNeilhaving seen the improvements GW posted for the MSX (new mosfets, etc) do you think they finally have robust enough innards in this new wheel? It's the first time I even considered buying a GW.

I think their failure rate must have to do with their QC or lack there of.  I still think it has to do with all the loose wiring and the vibration.  These wheels take a lot of G’s when going over bumps.  I didn’t know how much until I tried to mount a GoPro on them and the first minor bump I went over the GoPro tilted down to the ground!  

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

  Upon closer forensic examination of the video evidence, and if you turn up your sound, you can clearly hear @YoshiSkySun zapping Jeff from behind with a hidden taser gun (see him holding it with his left arm) causing the resultant fall and fuse blow out.  That is all I have to say on this matter except to beware of your fellow riders behind you. 

Anyone else also spot the Gotway chopper in the background?  They are watching!  

[US69]

2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

 

@Marty Backe for fairness sake, let's take stock of what GW were pushing out at the same time as this vintage Wheel; a 67v ACM with MOSFETs as fragile as a Song Dynasty vase & motor wires that have the dual-function for making toast on the way up that hill.

Yesterday I made a statement that there's been no reports of a ACMv2 dying, but that this was premature. This morning I received a dreaded 'I received my brand new ACMv2 & within 3 mile it cut-out, no longer turns on'. I wish I could say that the failure rate for GW is now as good as KS, but I'm afraid to say this is not the case. On a statistical basis, there is a 15% chance of a new Tesla/ACM board blowing within the first hour of use, if you make it through this critical danger point, then the likelihood is it's going to hold-up over time

Exactly what i want t write... @Marty Backe

Yip, 16b's havent been as great as the S Series, and sure, every wheel can fail, especially on such hills and especially when it is a 2 year old version of a wheel......

What still stays is that no matter which time you take take, failure rate of GWs is -at least 5-10 times higher than on KS. (15% to 1-2%? respect, GW, btw: no assumptions, hard numbers of resellers!)

Yip,  for those 2 year old 16b wheel we would have to compare it to the ACM 67V v1 which came out even 4 months later as 16b, where GW later had to put out the v2, as there v1 6MOS version had a 50% failure rate and was that unreliable GW had to double the MOS. So congrats, Jrkline, your KS16b made it 2 years, before the fuse blows on a steep hill.

Perhaps we should send up a half year younger 67V v1 ACM GW with 6MOS up that hill.....aaah, Sorry, i forgot, its not possible...none is even existing or better say still working nowadays :-)

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, US69 said:

Exactly what i want t write... @Marty Backe

Yip, 16b's havent been as great as the S Series, and sure, every wheel can fail, especially on such hills and especially when it is a 2 year old version of a wheel......

What still stays is that no matter which time you take take, failure rate of GWs is -at least 5-10 times higher than on KS. (15% to 1-2%? respect, GW, btw: no assumptions, hard numbers of resellers!)

Yip,  for those 2 year old 16b wheel we would have to compare it to the ACM 67V v1 which came out even 4 months later as 16b, where GW later had to put out the v2, as there v1 6MOS version had a 50% failure rate and was that unreliable GW had to double the MOS. So congrats, Jrkline, your KS16b made it 2 years, before the fuse blows on a steep hill.

Perhaps we should send up a half year younger 67V v1 ACM GW with 6MOS up that hill.....aaah, Sorry, i forgot, its not possible...none is even existing or better say still working nowadays :-)

The KingSong fanatics will never be convinced   When I told @GoinPostal about the recent KS14D faceplant, he then told me, "only the S series are of great quality", even though the D and S are the same except for the batteries. So there will always be an excuse for the KingSong people 

I'm just having fun here folks. I would have posted the same video if it was a Gotway wheel (I think I have )