ED209 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Adel said: Well I think the main reason the Tesla is no longer competitive is because of the 1600wh ACM2. Don't you agree ? The Tesla is more practical, it has an extended inbuilt handle, the ACM doesn't, the Tesla weighs less than 19 kilograms, the ACM2 weighs 22 kilograms or more. The Tesla is also more agile than the ACM2. Edited April 11, 2018 by Edddeus Incomplete 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 31 minutes ago, maltocs said: Is this typical where power/max speed is lowered as the battery depletes or is this an inmotion thing? My friend who owns a Tesla Car says he only notices power (acceleration) dropping when he gets below 30%. Thats a typical Inmotion thing... Other brands start warnings or reduce speed from 40-25% battery range.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted April 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Adel said: Well I think the main reason the Tesla is no longer competitive is because of the 1600wh ACM2. Don't you agree ? I think the ACM2 is in a different class of 16-inch wheels then the Tesla and V10. The ACM2 has a much longer range and is a wider and heavier wheel. The Tesla and V10 are slimmer and lighter wheels. I was just riding my Tesla last night for ~20-miles and was really enjoying the ride. I'm glad that I have both wheels. Although the Tesla and ACM are both 16-inch wheels they ride very differently. I haven't ridden a V10 but my sense is that it probably rides much more like a Tesla than the ACM due to its tall and thin stature. The Tesla/V10 are more like front wheel drive sports cars. In contrast, the ACM2 is a rear wheel drive muscle car You pick the wheel based on the ride feel that you're after. Edited April 11, 2018 by Marty Backe 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duf Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Great initial review Jason, fills in all the initial blanks. Looks like they kept all the good things from the V5F and V8 and added some muscle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Personally, I think the ACM2 beats both the Tesla & the V10F stat-wise, and cost. 1000wh battery max simply doesn't cut it for my needs. Besides the ACM is sexy in matte blue (even cliche black), gets you 1600wh for the same price, and the tesla motor, win win for the current 16" models available IMO. The KS16s is eliminated due to the measly 840wh battery, I mean, I don't want to be out of juice at the end of my driveway Kingsong! I'm pretty settled on a 1600wh battery being the minimum acceptable these days. All moot anyway because the Gotway MS X-Series is obviously wheel of the year if it doesn't explode when turned on.. @Marty Backe will let us know if it does i'm sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Hatchet said: Personally, I think the ACM2 beats both the Tesla & the V10F stat-wise, and cost. 1000wh battery max simply doesn't cut it for my needs. Besides the ACM is sexy in matte blue (even cliche black), gets you 1600wh for the same price, and the tesla motor, win win for the current 16" models available IMO. The KS16s is eliminated due to the measly 840wh battery, I mean, I don't want to be out of juice at the end of my driveway Kingsong! I'm pretty settled on a 1600wh battery being the minimum acceptable these days. All moot anyway because the Gotway MS X-Series is obviously wheel of the year if it doesn't explode when turned on.. @Marty Backe will let us know if it does i'm sure. Love your ACM posts @Hatchet I hope to get my MSuper X3 ASAP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8ps Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Not feeling the glossy plastic (looks tacky and prone to scratches) and linear speed decrease. Battery watt-hours isn't enough of an upgrade from my 840 watt-hour KS16S. If this was out in the market the same time I purchased the 16S, I would have gone with this though. As it stands, it is an incremental upgrade. Inmotion needs a MSuper or ACM competitor - fill that void in your lineup please! I may get desperate enough to buy a Gotway one day, despite the questionable quality. I look at some of the group rides and think to myself that I'd have to bail halfway through the ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 my hope and guess is, this wheel will appeal to those that want handling and safety. not saying speed and runtime aren’t huge factors in wheel desirability, but not the only two things. just like cars and motorcycles. if it’s comfortable to ride and maneuver, the build quality is good and doesn’t brick on me, the speed and range are way down my personal list. 20 mph is my warp speed. and i’m secretly hoping some of @Hirsute ‘s skills will magically infuse into my dna so i can at least mount and look cool doing it. u know, like golfer’s that run out and buy the same driver some golf pro was using. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hirsute Posted April 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 12, 2018 4 hours ago, novazeus said: and i’m secretly hoping some of @Hirsute ‘s skills will magically infuse into my dna so i can at least mount and look cool doing it. That's sure @novazeus! I didn't do anything special to do these skills. The V10F did it alone like if i where a puppet! It will probably be the same for you... 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) I don't see a huge deal with the speed decrease with lowering battery levels. It just makes sense to help avoid a BMS shutdown if the wheel is trying to draw more power than is available to achieve a certain speed. All the speeds on the chart are better than when a Ninebot One E+ hits low battery mode. Gosh it's hard to ride at 10 kph for any length of time. Now that is painful. If they could design wheels with a large enough capacitor that allows riders to keep riding at 40 kph throughout the battery range, but as a consequence the range was cut down say 40-50%, would riders prefer that? I wonder if something like that would be possible as an option. That 50 mile range wheel would be a 25 mile wheel, but you could ride at 40 kph for the entire time. I think most people would prefer to go slower with more range than vice versa. Edited April 12, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demargon Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) On 4/10/2018 at 10:37 PM, Jason McNeil said: The extended handle serves that purposes pretty well. I have to put the mudguard in my v5f because is really awkward getting the handle covered on mud ¿can I use the v5 mudguard in the v10? Edited April 12, 2018 by Demargon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 11 hours ago, Hirsute said: That's sure @novazeus! I didn't do anything special to do these skills. The V10F did it alone like if i where a puppet! It will probably be the same for you... i think the hat would help too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 The weight is the same for the V10 and V10F? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Yes, same weight for both - even though different battery packs the wheels are the same weight due to density of the batteries themselves, or so they say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 14 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: .... If they could design wheels with a large enough capacitor that allows riders to keep riding at 40 kph throughout the battery range, but as a consequence the range was cut down say 40-50%, would riders prefer that? I wonder if something like that would be possible as an option. That 50 mile range wheel would be a 25 mile wheel, but you could ride at 40 kph for the entire time. I think most people would prefer to go slower with more range than vice versa. A capacitor could only potentially help with instantaneous current demand for for short duration. The result of which could be longer battery life due to reduced peak demand. However it would not in any way increase the power available from a low battery beyond the short spike, so would not help with what you are asking for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) I'm no electronicsologist, but I was just thinking along the lines of how they use those large capacitors in car stereos. https://www.crutchfield.com/S-8VFw5GYIkuv/learn/learningcenter/car/capacitors/faq.html They seem to help buffer the voltage to prevent under-voltage. How to UPS AVR's work to keep a steady voltage? Would it be possible to design a circuit to maintain that 67.2 or 84 V voltage level constant and still have the range of current draw capability to maintain 40 kph throughout a battery's capacity? I'm just trying to think theoretically here. Battery backups for servers much be able to handle varying loads as disk drives kick in and demand varies. I don't think they can "brown out" when the battery gets below 50%? Do Tesla cars lose their top speed when their battery packs run below a certain threshold? It sounds like they are still able to maintain high speeds, but their range diminishes to about 35-45%. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/discharging-at-high-speed-100-mph.32873/ Edited April 12, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 They can buffer very short term voltage fluctuations and can provide high current discharge. Two different things, neither of which can maintain the voltage drop of the battery pack at a constant level as if the battery had not droped it's voltage. Sorry you are mixing up several unrealted things, believe me if they just needed a capacitor and they could get one that physically fit they would do it. That is not to say at some point they won't but it is unlikely the approach they will take with direct dc motors for this issue. Capacitors are not voltage regulators. A proper design is based on the power available from the battery pack and drive electronics the power discharge of the batterypack is the important factor not just the current it can deliver. However as the voltage drops more current is required to deliver the same power. The macimum power discharge of the pack is not a constant as it is discharged. If the design was based on the maximum power the pack could deliver, then sorry when the pack is hlf discharged it cannot deliver the power required. If they started with better packs they could design for a higher power. A Tesla is not designed to require or use the maximum instantaneous power of the pack, that's a point well beyond when fuses are blowing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) Thanks for sharing that. I only took some basic electronics classes way back in high school so my knowledge in that area is pretty limited unfortunately. It sounds like basically the only way to make an electric unicycle sustain 40 kph is to incorporate a very large capacity battery. Maybe if the energy density were increased with new cell technology we might see that one day. As it is, these wheels likely can safely hit 25 kph throughout their battery range, but when people see those top speeds it's hard not to want to be able to hit them even on low battery power. Edited April 13, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Thanks for sharing that. I only took some basic electronics classes way back in high school so my knowledge in that area is pretty limited unfortunately. It sounds like basically the only way to make an electric unicycle sustain 40 kph is to incorporate a very large capacity battery. Maybe if the energy density were increased with new cell technology we might see that one day. As it is, these wheels likely can safely hit 25 kph throughout their battery range, but when people see those top speeds it's hard not to want to be able to hit them even on low battery power. If you're referring back to your High School knowledge, I'm surprised your not trying to retrofit your Tesla with valves, Gotway boy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) On 10/4/2018 at 10:08 PM, Jason McNeil said: I'm sure there's a massive safety margin between the 40kph & the potential max that the Wheel is capable of attaining. I'm not a speed daemon, but I do enjoy riding close to the limiter on a open stretch from time-to-time So when do you head out to the Arizona's wide grassland? Should be fairly open I have heard. Edited April 14, 2018 by Unventor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jason McNeil Posted April 14, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) On 10/04/2018 at 1:36 PM, houseofjob said: So is the charging GX12-3 then? Yep, it's the GX12-3. On 10/04/2018 at 1:36 PM, houseofjob said: Does the current V8 eWheels rapid charger work on it? New 5A eWheels fast charge on the way perhaps (being it's 4P now)? The connector on the US V8, the G3, is now a GX12-4. For this 960Wh pack, a 5A charger is going to be more beneficial. It's a shame Inmotion moved away from the V5F USB type charging port, it was so reliable & easy to plug charger in. I believe it had something to do with the Chinese Electronics Regulatory body not being familiar with this type of connector. On 10/04/2018 at 1:36 PM, houseofjob said: Also, no chance they reintroduced the V5 pinhole power disable? Not on the prototype, just the charging port under the flap. On 10/04/2018 at 1:36 PM, houseofjob said: I'm guessing they kept the hold handle disengage + power button press trick to toggle the LEDs sans app? Yes, tested this out, still works on the V10F On 10/04/2018 at 1:36 PM, houseofjob said: Also, did they keep the V8-style power toggle, long press for On/Off, momentary for lights? (think that's what the V8 is) Same as the V8. Question, when you need to turn on the light while moving, do you stop & do the long-press, or reach down & perform the action under movement? I can't bring myself to fully trust a Wheel enough to the extent of pressing the power button while riding On 10/04/2018 at 1:36 PM, houseofjob said: Bluetooth Speakers: I'm guessing the bluetooth speakers are on their own bluetooth network, ala King Song speakers? . Exactly, it comes up in the BT discovery as "Unicycle Audio" On 11/04/2018 at 8:15 AM, maltocs said: Official V10F product specs show 55-62m, you estimate about 38m Generally accepted range figures are 25Wh/mile for ~20MPH cruising with a 160lb rider on flat terrain. There's a bit of variance depending on the model Wheel, but these estimates seem to hold up pretty well. On 10/04/2018 at 3:29 PM, Marty Backe said: Having the speed limiter kick in at 40% is too bad, but yes, it's understandable from Inmotion's perspective. Does it keep getting slower as the battery drains more? I understand there's the possibility that this programming may be adapted, as the power margins on the V10F are vastly higher than they were on the V8. Believe Inmotion want to see what the market response is first, make sure there is good safety record before do any tweaking of this kind. Axle Diameter: @Bobwheel also shared some details on the axle thickness, it's a 17mm wide axle, that has a machined flat profile at the top that locks it into place with the pedal arm (similar to KS). I need to do some comparison measurements, pretty sure this is the thickest axle of any Wheel motor. V10 & V10F Have Different Motors: I was really surprised to learn that the V10 & V10F use different motors. Not entirely sure what the driver is for this, perhaps cost. This may change as volume production gets underway. Edited April 14, 2018 by Jason McNeil 6 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z3n Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Question, when you need to turn on the light while moving, do you stop & do the long-press, or reach down & perform the action under movement? I can't bring myself to fully trust a Wheel enough to the extent of pressing the power button while riding For this case, I'd rather take out my phone and use the app instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefork Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Question, when you need to turn on the light while moving, do you stop & do the long-press, or reach down & perform the action under movement? I can't bring myself to fully trust a Wheel enough to the extent of pressing the power button while riding I reach down and tap the power button to turn on the lights on my V5F+, but I'm not so sure I would do it on a V8, since they switched the power/lights toggling around for that model (i.e. on the V8 you "long-touch" the button for lights - short for power). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 27 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Same as the V8. Question, when you need to turn on the light while moving, do you stop & do the long-press, or reach down & perform the action under movement? I can't bring myself to fully trust a Wheel enough to the extent of pressing the power button while riding I rarely use the onboard light as it isn't bright enough but when I have turned it on while riding I have done it while moving. Any faster than 1-2kph and the power off function will not work meaning that the power switch will only activate the lights (still requires to be held for a second). The one time I did stop to turn it on I remained on the pedals while holding a power pole. I misjudged the distance to the button and accidently hit it momentarily thus killing the power and tipping me off the now unbalanced wheel (thankfully stepped off and caught the wheel). This wouldn't have happened if I had been moving. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 32 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: The connector on the US V8, the G3, is now a GX12-4. For this 960Wh pack, a 5A charger is going to be more beneficial. It's a shame Inmotion moved away from the V5F USB type charging port, it was so reliable & easy to plug charger in. I believe it had something to do with the Chinese Electronics Regulatory body not being familiar with this type of connector. I have the 2.5A fast charger for the V8 and am unable to use it on a socket timer for an early morning pre-commute charge because the charger will not start charging if connected to the wheel when the charger is powered on. The InMotion slow charger will charge regardless of initial wheel connection. Can any new fast charger allow charging to commence if already connected to the wheel first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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