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Taming the MTen3 - My First-Wheel Learning Log


beast@tanagra

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12 hours ago, beast@tanagra said:

<snip>

(I also saw, in the New York City group ride videos posted today, that one MTen3 user seemed to have removed the lower pads entirely, which may have the perceived effect of widening the pedals and extending the upper pads. Not sure I want to go there, though.)

<snip>

Those bottom pads don't wear very well. I think the rubber is too soft. Depending on your riding style they may fully fall apart. That may be why his were removed.

On my wheel I got some early tearing on one of the pads, but after 400-miles both pads are good. I essentially never touch this rubber with my feel. Maybe when learning to first ride the Mten3 your ankles touch this rubber a lot???

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10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Those bottom pads don't wear very well. I think the rubber is too soft. Depending on your riding style they may fully fall apart. That may be why his were removed.

On my wheel I got some early tearing on one of the pads, but after 400-miles both pads are good. I essentially never touch this rubber with my feel. Maybe when learning to first ride the Mten3 your ankles touch this rubber a lot???

I contact the lower pads pretty consistently, and I can foresee them wearing down. My lower legs just don't like to bend inward as much as I see you doing in your MTen3 videos, though, so I barely touch the upper pads at all without extra padding.

Day 9: Legs are rock solid. Back is still crazy sore and twinges when I bend or unbend just so. Not as bad as yesterday, though.

45 min on sidewalk and asphalt: Go the distance? Off to a late start tonight while my wheel is in the mod shop getting some padding upgrades at the hand of my wife. Bumpers are better held in place now, and I have that extra thickness and softness on the upper pad that I’ve been craving.

Lovely evening, and the new padding had me feeling super well planted. The only boundary I felt like pushing tonight was a distance one — going farther from my house than I’ve yet gone. I succeeded, but not by all that much on account of encroaching darkness and my leisurely pace. Noteworthy moment: pulling off my first snap sidewalk U-turn in response to car backing out in front of me. Total distance about 8.5km. Feet were feeling it by the time I got back. Pretty plush ride, otherwise. Going to mount my newly-arrived rear-view mirror tomorrow. I might be ready to run some errands this week — at least at places where I can drop the machine in a cart; the trolley mod still intimidates me and might require changes to my padding config.

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Day 10: Legs are solid. Feet don’t have any lingering effects from yesterday’s distance fatigue. Back continues to mend, but is still not 100%.

I affixed my new rear-view mirror and took some to adjust it so that it would be in the field of vision of my prescription glasses and yet not interfere with the tinted visor attachment for my helmet (which I’ve only used once, given my preference for evening rides).

60 min on mixed terrain: Looking for trouble! I mostly poked around the neighborhoods getting a feel for how to check my mirror, and looking for deserted cul-de-sacs and interesting bits of sidewalk in which I could practice turns of varying speed and diameter. I had a couple of dismounts and pedal scrapes, but nothing serious.

On a brief slalom through Crappy Grass Basin, though, I suffered my very first fall. Having harmlessly dismounted after losing too much speed on a tight turn, I had an off-center re-mount and made the mistake of trying to adjust my foot on the go rather than take a mulligan. The first good bump of grass sent me tumbling. I took the hit on my right elbow, slightly fore of my elbow pad, so the pad was only partially effective at absorbing the blow. Other than a very minor scratch, and a bruise to my ego, there was no harm done. As for the wheel, I had to readjust my new bumper harness 2.0, but it seems to be fine as well.

The thing that struck me about this fall was how quickly I was on the ground. I don’t recall giving any thought at all to where my limbs were flailing as I hit. One second I was tottering, the next I was down. This is somewhat eye-opening. Perhaps with training I could develop some safe-fall muscle memory, but that’s not training I know how to pursue. So, it doesn’t look like I can expect to trust my limbs to protectively land where I would like even in a very low speed mishap. Either I’m wearing protection at the destined points of impact or I’m not.

I ended the night working on controlled dismounts and mounts. I did my first rolling mounts (feeble) and my first mount from my off leg (dicey). Once I felt like I had gotten a minor aerobic workout from all of this, I called it a night.
 

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2 hours ago, beast@tanagra said:

Day 10: Legs are solid. Feet don’t have any lingering effects from yesterday’s distance fatigue. Back continues to mend, but is still not 100%.

I affixed my new rear-view mirror and took some to adjust it so that it would be in the field of vision of my prescription glasses and yet not interfere with the tinted visor attachment for my helmet (which I’ve only used once, given my preference for evening rides).

60 min on mixed terrain: Looking for trouble! I mostly poked around the neighborhoods getting a feel for how to check my mirror, and looking for deserted cul-de-sacs and interesting bits of sidewalk in which I could practice turns of varying speed and diameter. I had a couple of dismounts and pedal scrapes, but nothing serious.

On a brief slalom through Crappy Grass Basin, though, I suffered my very first fall. Having harmlessly dismounted after losing too much speed on a tight turn, I had an off-center re-mount and made the mistake of trying to adjust my foot on the go rather than take a mulligan. The first good bump of grass sent me tumbling. I took the hit on my right elbow, slightly fore of my elbow pad, so the pad was only partially effective at absorbing the blow. Other than a very minor scratch, and a bruise to my ego, there was no harm done. As for the wheel, I had to readjust my new bumper harness 2.0, but it seems to be fine as well.

The thing that struck me about this fall was how quickly I was on the ground. I don’t recall giving any thought at all to where my limbs were flailing as I hit. One second I was tottering, the next I was down. This is somewhat eye-opening. Perhaps with training I could develop some safe-fall muscle memory, but that’s not training I know how to pursue. So, it doesn’t look like I can expect to trust my limbs to protectively land where I would like even in a very low speed mishap. Either I’m wearing protection at the destined points of impact or I’m not.

I ended the night working on controlled dismounts and mounts. I did my first rolling mounts (feeble) and my first mount from my off leg (dicey). Once I felt like I had gotten a minor aerobic workout from all of this, I called it a night.
 

Did you see me recent posting regards the KS16B blown fuse? You can see how fast a person hits the ground when the wheel fails :cry2:

Be safe.

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Yea, you don't superman nosedive in an arc like you would from a bike, you just rotate down in some way when suddenly the pedals under your feet are gone (meaning no chance to push yourself off, and since the pedals are so low, no falling time).

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3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yea, you don't superman nosedive in an arc like you would from a bike, you just rotate down in some way when suddenly the pedals under your feet are gone (meaning no chance to push yourself off, and since the pedals are so low, no falling time).

first piece of me that landed was the chin part of my helmet, then the visor, then it was shoulders so yeah face first is very common

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16 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Did you see me recent posting regards the KS16B blown fuse? You can see how fast a person hits the ground when the wheel fails :cry2:

Be safe.

Yes, it was also eye-opening. I found myself wishing it had been packaged as "Here's how fast and ungraceful an EUC fall can be. Wear your gear.", and I hope this message wasn't lost in the resultant debate about KS safety.

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Day 11: Except for a back that isn’t quite done being sore and twitchy, feeling ready to rock a wheel.

50 min on mixed terrain: La de da… I wasn’t sure how long I would have tonight, so I didn’t venture too far and mostly puttered around doing various turns and slalom runs. Felt very planted tonight. Wrapped up with more mounting practice, with an emphasis on a slight rolling start. Some progress made. No significant events to report.

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Day 12: Diminishing returns as the health of my back approaches 100%. It’s close, but not there yet, and I’m getting impatient because I promised myself I would wait until I was all better before trying to wear a backpack and run errands.

50 min on mixed terrain: Need for speed… Given that I want to try to go useful places soon, I started to scout out the best approaches for this wheel and figure out how long they would take. With this mindset, my typical cruising speed of ~12 kph is starting to feel… pedestrian, but I’ve still been a bit antsy sustaining speeds in my typical burst range of 15-18 kph. It seems like this wheel ought to feel safe and stable at 18-20 kph in good conditions, so I made a point of trying to hold these speeds a little longer and see if there’s some stability reason for my discomfort that I can work on. I didn’t find one, and it may just be that my comfort level will take a while to catch up to my skill and improved upper grips. The only sketchy moment was getting tugged along a seam in a stretch of asphalt. I recovered, and now know to avoid such features.

As I got more used to mid-range velocities, I was surprised at how quickly I could scoot around the neighborhood by quickly adjusting speed according to conditions — sprinting in the clear, slowing when approaching obstructions to my view or less trusted terrain. This made getting around more fun.

I took another stab at Loose Gravel Cut, but was still dismounted twice. On the plus side, I didn’t resort to carrying the wheel nearly as far, and still made it down the long fork. Strolls around Crappy Grass Basin and a better kept version of it were fun and without incident today.

Ended the night with some more tight turns and mounting practice. Managed to spin tight and fast enough to make myself dizzy a few times. Getting closer to a leisurely mounting speed. Stopped on account of darkness. No injuries or significant spills today.
 

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1 hour ago, beast@tanagra said:

Day 12: Diminishing returns as the health of my back approaches 100%. It’s close, but not there yet, and I’m getting impatient because I promised myself I would wait until I was all better before trying to wear a backpack and run errands.

50 min on mixed terrain: Need for speed… Given that I want to try to go useful places soon, I started to scout out the best approaches for this wheel and figure out how long they would take. With this mindset, my typical cruising speed of ~12 kph is starting to feel… pedestrian, but I’ve still been a bit antsy sustaining speeds in my typical burst range of 15-18 kph. It seems like this wheel ought to feel safe and stable at 18-20 kph in good conditions, so I made a point of trying to hold these speeds a little longer and see if there’s some stability reason for my discomfort that I can work on. I didn’t find one, and it may just be that my comfort level will take a while to catch up to my skill and improved upper grips. The only sketchy moment was getting tugged along a seam in a stretch of asphalt. I recovered, and now know to avoid such features.

As I got more used to mid-range velocities, I was surprised at how quickly I could scoot around the neighborhood by quickly adjusting speed according to conditions — sprinting in the clear, slowing when approaching obstructions to my view or less trusted terrain. This made getting around more fun.

I took another stab at Loose Gravel Cut, but was still dismounted twice. On the plus side, I didn’t resort to carrying the wheel nearly as far, and still made it down the long fork. Strolls around Crappy Grass Basin and a better kept version of it were fun and without incident today.

Ended the night with some more tight turns and mounting practice. Managed to spin tight and fast enough to make myself dizzy a few times. Getting closer to a leisurely mounting speed. Stopped on account of darkness. No injuries or significant spills today.
 

Really glad this Mten3 is working out so well for you :cheers:

It's going to feel very strange (but great) when you get the bigger wheel.

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23 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Really glad this Mten3 is working out so well for you :cheers:

Yeah, it does feel like it's all coming together for me, especially after tonight's ride:

Day 13: Woke up with lingering traces of my back complaint, along with a new kind of leg soreness when applying any kind of lateral pressure. Not sure whether this has to do with last night’s sustained turns, mounting practice, or both. Soreness mostly gone by evening, though. Big obstacle was weather: more strong winds and blowing dust.

30 min on sidewalk and asphalt: I got this! I started really late, after putting off my ride as long as I could resist in hopes of less dusty conditions. Started with the headlight on and scooted around the immediate neighborhood. I had glimpses of the sensation I had imagined when first getting interesting in EUC — that of feeling so at home on the wheel that I wasn’t thinking of the mechanics of riding so much as the larger picture of situation awareness and the path ahead that I want to take. The wheel was an extension of my body. I don’t know how I looked, but I felt more stylish and graceful than I have in the past. If I had a “last mile problem”, I would consider it solved now, but since my riding is, for now, purely recreational (errands will be a gimmick, really), I need other ambitions to keep me interested.

For now, I mostly want to figure out one-legged riding, less for the freestyle than for the added poise and flexibility: being able to adjust an off-kilter foot, or let the blood circulate to it on a long ride, would be pretty nice. (I do feel like this is probably harder on the MTen3 than on a wheel that connects higher on the leg, though.)

Reverse is also on my list, but I’m still waiting for my wife to be available to help with this. I think some sustained, supported backwards rides will greatly speed the acquisition of muscle memory in that direction, as was the case with forwards rides.

I also need to start thinking about places I can go to with a short car trip, pull out the wheel, and try myself in new conditions that, if not more scenic, will at least provide some novelty. This wheel is obviously not the best for off-road trails, though, so I guess I’m looking at parks and mixed-use paths. (And looking ahead to my next wheel as the all-purpose all-terrain expedition device.)

23 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

It's going to feel very strange (but great) when you get the bigger wheel.

I'm sure! Looking forward to your V10 review!
 

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On 4/8/2018 at 10:05 PM, beast@tanagra said:

Put 2 oz. slime in the wheel (exactly, as measured by kitchen scale)

 

How did you put 2 oz of Slime in a wheel using a kitchen scale?  Did you weigh the Slime bottle before beginning to squeeze the stuff out, and from time to time thereafter until you had depleted it by 2 oz?

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Day 14: More of the same minor soreness as yesterday, but better weather.

60 min on mixed terrain: Round and round… Without really intending to, I broke my overall distance record, with about 11km, nearly all of that in the first 30 min. I was just scooting around at varied speeds when I did this, but also tried a couple of new offroad cuts, including a 600m stretch of hard dirt trail that only gave me moderate difficulty where I was expecting a little more; I now think that one will be trivial for a bigger and treadier tire, and useful, as it is seldom traveled. Swooped through Crappy Grass Basin in record time. Had my first successful case of idling in sharp circles while waiting for an opening at an intersection. Ended the night as I have been lately, by working on fine control, tight turns, and mounting, this time with a special focus on playing with my posture to get slower mounts and inch closer to one-legged balance. I think I may have made a tiny amount of headway on that.

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Day 15: Standard soreness. I’ll probably have to take a day off at some point and see if it all clears up. Lovely weather.

30 min on sidewalk and asphalt: Can I hear you now? This mid-morning ride was an experiment in wearing earbuds to listen to an audiobook while I worked on maneuvers — a good combination, I figured, as I would be mostly removed from audible hazards. This worked out better than I expected. The book didn’t drown out ambient noises the way music might have, and what I lost in raw hearing was partially compensated for by isolation from wind noise, which made vehicle sounds stand out better. All but the most technical riding also left enough linguistic cognitive capacity to actually process what I was listening to as well, which I wasn't too sure about going in. I’m way behind on my audiobook listening, so this looks like a winning combo. Stopped on account of sun exposure.

That evening...

30 min on mixed terrain: Loosen up? I had experimented with removing my extra upper side padding for a bit this morning while trying to figure out one-legged riding, and didn’t find myself as bereft of control as I had expected. This made me think my improved skill for the past week may have preempted their value, but this proved to be a mistake. (Trying comfier shoes at the same time may or may not have compounded the mistake.) A dip through Crappy Grass Basin was way squirrelier without more constant leg contact, and I had a hard run-off that left my off leg throbbing. This, combined with my accumulated baseline soreness, was enough to remind me that I’m not a teenager anymore, and I decided to pack it in for the day. As I feel out what’s left of that new pain tonight, my day off idea is looking more reasonable than ever.

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15 hours ago, beast@tanagra said:

trying to figure out one-legged riding

One-legged riding on MTen3 is more difficult than on any other (bigger) wheel, but still is possible. It is especially important to feel secure with the pedal grip, so I suggest a simple mod, which you can try if you plan to continue one-legged exercises:

 

at the same time,  it doesn't mean that one-legged riding is not possible on the original MTen3 pedal, however better grip makes you a lot more confident, especially when learning. The below video is with the original pedals, for example.

 

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3 hours ago, trya said:

One-legged riding on MTen3 is more difficult than on any other (bigger) wheel, but still is possible.

So I'm not crazy! That's good to know, I guess. I notice the one-legged riding in your video is all with the "wrong" foot. I'm assuming it's easier with the normal foot? Your freestyling is pretty cool, but I'm really just hoping to lift a foot now and then to adjust position and let the blood circulate.

3 hours ago, trya said:

It is especially important to feel secure with the pedal grip, so I suggest a simple mod, which you can try if you plan to continue one-legged exercises:

That looks... horrifyingly effective. You're just cutting open the rubber a bit to let the screws out? Or is there more to it than that? A feeling of imminent slippage is definitely one sensation that has been holding me back, though I think I might look more for a grip tape option -- or even just put one-legged riding on hold until I've had a chance to figure it out on my next wheel. As the MTen3 is said to be great for riding backwards, I may just move that higher up in my priorities list. You certainly make it look easy!

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39 minutes ago, beast@tanagra said:

I notice the one-legged riding in your video is all with the "wrong" foot. I'm assuming it's easier with the normal foot?

Yes, normal foot is easier, that video was shot during my first ride on MTen3 and I tried to do those tricks, which I could do on my bigger Inmotion V5F - to see how it feels on that wheel. Actually, there are some elements, which are easier to do on MTen3 than on other wheels (for example, pendulum and riding backward).

 

39 minutes ago, beast@tanagra said:

That looks... horrifyingly effective. You're just cutting open the rubber a bit to let the screws out?

No, watch how it is done in the video I mention in my post:

 

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4 hours ago, trya said:

No, watch how it is done in the video I mention in my post: [link]

Ah, I missed that. Thank you for the explanation.

Day 16: All the new soreness of last night, with some extra stiffness to boot. I was totally settled on taking a day to rest. But, by evening, I really was feeling tons better. And, and… I had an audiobook to make some progress on. And I had left my wheel at a higher state of charge than is healthy. And the sun was already setting, so there was little risk of me overdoing it. What if I just took it really easy?

30 min on sidewalk and driveway: Stand tall… Reverting to my stiffer style of days 3-4, but with the benefit of experience and my round-the-house shoes, I did, in fact, take it easy. My only goal was to minimize stress on my knees and leg muscles, and I feel like I succeeded. It takes so little twisting to do even fairly sharp turns on this wheel if you’re not in any hurry. At gentle cruising speeds of ~8-10 kph, I could even lock my knees for extended stretches on smooth terrain. I enjoyed my book, scratched my riding itch, and ended my ride feeling no more worn down than when I had started.

Legs actually feeling good, a few hours later, like how they would feel during a good sit after a long walk. Holding out hope that I’ll feel ready to push the envelope again tomorrow, as I think the Mrs. will finally have some time to help me jumpstart riding backwards.

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Day 17: Right leg is A+. Left leg still a bit tender under pressure.

30 min on concrete and asphalt: Little of interest tonight. Wife turned out to be unavailable for backwards practice, so I listened to my audiobook and continued to take it easy on account of that left leg. Had one unexpected dismount when tire bit into a seam on the driveway when I didn’t think I was parallel enough to it for this to occur. My casual shoes didn’t feel as comfortable tonight, and I’ll probably switch back to my half boots tomorrow, as they work better with my extra side padding.
 

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Day 18: About the same as yesterday.

40 min on concrete and asphalt: Too easy… I had expected this ride to turn out like yesterday’s, but as I rode, back in my heavier shoes and with my extra side padding, I felt increasingly stable and comfortable — and naturally slid back into my more vigorous style of a few days earlier. Notable event was my first time being assertively questioned by an enthusiastic observer. It probably took 18 days on account of my going relatively slow and looking deliberately dweebish with my safety gear and wheel bumpers — and on account of me generally avoiding people while I meander the neighborhood. This guy only had a chance because I didn’t see him peeking over a wall.

Stopped due to darkness. Feeling pretty good.

 

Day 19: Feeling the best, physically, since day 0. Only the faintest lingering traces of soreness and bruising.

45 min on mixed terrain: Warming up... The return of near-hundred-degree temperatures had me putting this ride off closer to dark, and saving the envelope pushing for tomorrow when my wife should finally be around to help for real. I mostly just darted around to wherever the wheel wanted to go tonight, including a bit of grass, but mostly just quieter streets and cul-de-sacs where I could reliably hear my audiobook. That’s the trade-off of audio that doesn’t drown out traffic: traffic drowns out the audio. I did some more aggressive turns than I have in a while, and worked on some stability at very low speed. I feel like I should probably check tire pressure tomorrow (just because it’s been a few weeks) and research where the danger zone is as far as the wheel’s internal heat tolerance. I doubt I’m anywhere near the red, but I’ve noticed my max temperature reaching higher peaks on my more recent rides — up to 45 C — when in fairer weather it reliably warmed up to 40 C and stayed there. Stopped tonight on account of darkness.

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53 minutes ago, beast@tanagra said:

Day 18: About the same as yesterday.

40 min on concrete and asphalt: Too easy… I had expected this ride to turn out like yesterday’s, but as I rode, back in my heavier shoes and with my extra side padding, I felt increasingly stable and comfortable — and naturally slid back into my more vigorous style of a few days earlier. Notable event was my first time being assertively questioned by an enthusiastic observer. It probably took 18 days on account of my going relatively slow and looking deliberately dweebish with my safety gear and wheel bumpers — and on account of me generally avoiding people while I meander the neighborhood. This guy only had a chance because I didn’t see him peeking over a wall.

Stopped due to darkness. Feeling pretty good.

 

Day 19: Feeling the best, physically, since day 0. Only the faintest lingering traces of soreness and bruising.

45 min on mixed terrain: Warming up... The return of near-hundred-degree temperatures had me putting this ride off closer to dark, and saving the envelope pushing for tomorrow when my wife should finally be around to help for real. I mostly just darted around to wherever the wheel wanted to go tonight, including a bit of grass, but mostly just quieter streets and cul-de-sacs where I could reliably hear my audiobook. That’s the trade-off of audio that doesn’t drown out traffic: traffic drowns out the audio. I did some more aggressive turns than I have in a while, and worked on some stability at very low speed. I feel like I should probably check tire pressure tomorrow (just because it’s been a few weeks) and research where the danger zone is as far as the wheel’s internal heat tolerance. I doubt I’m anywhere near the red, but I’ve noticed my max temperature reaching higher peaks on my more recent rides — up to 45 C — when in fairer weather it reliably warmed up to 40 C and stayed there. Stopped tonight on account of darkness.

The wheel will operate safely into the 70's, and if it gets too hot the wheel will tilt-back on you to prevent anymore riding. On hot days my Gotway wheels can regularly run for long periods of time in the mid-60's. Bottom line: there is no danger zone regarding heat because the wheel will stop you before any damage can occur. 

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I'd say, instead of just further meandering around, set yourself a concrete destination and go for it (and back). Don't think too much about it, just mind a good distance, ideally somewhere you haven't been before, and do it and see how it works out!

(45°C is totally harmless. My ACM's regular riding temp in moderately warm weather is around 47°C without any big stresses.)

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22 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The wheel will operate safely into the 70's, and if it gets too hot the wheel will tilt-back on you to prevent anymore riding. On hot days my Gotway wheels can regularly run for long periods of time in the mid-60's. Bottom line: there is no danger zone regarding heat because the wheel will stop you before any damage can occur. 

Yeah, I wasn't too worried. Figured I should look into it, though. Thanks for the pointer!

Day 20: Feeling great. Ready to roll. Don’t know if I let a bunch of air out when testing tire pressure, but it came in low, about 25 psi, so I inflated to 35 and made a mental note to check this once a week from now on.

60 min on sidewalk and asphalt: What would @meepmeepmayer do? For life reasons outside either of our control, the wife-assisted backwards date has been newly postponed. So instead, after gearing up in record time (about 3.5 min), I got the audiobook going and took off in the easiest direction to get some distance, eventually reaching my previous far point, but no farther, as this would be difficult without a different route or a bigger wheel. Along the way, I was stopped by my second inquisitive onlooker — this one flying an impressively small micro-drone and geeking out about our mutual “tech moment”. He pointed and said, “Hey, that’s what the Segway was supposed to be!”, and I knew exactly what he was talking about. Good times.

On the way home, I got a little turned around in a labyrinthine subdivision, and spent the last 20 minutes in more darkness than I would normally brave beyond the safety of my driveway. Slowed down for fear of @Rehab1-ing. Just when this threatened to make me impatient, I had a solitary zen-like moment where it was just me and the moon, and my soul heard the call of the meep.

Broke my distance record with just over 12 km. Feet are definitely the weak link for me on sustained rides, and they first complain at about the 15-minute mark. I’m not sure if it’s a circulation shortage, vibration-induced numbness, or some combination of the two, but what wiggling exercises I was able to try while mounted were not enough. Spending even 30 seconds off the wheel pacing around, though, as when I checked Google Maps, fully restored them for another 10 min or so. If eventually figuring out one-legged riding lets me restore my feet on the go, this may make a big difference in my feelings about distance riding. As it is, unless I have a purpose to my destination, I think I’m happier staying closer to home where I can respond more readily to issues with my ride or my family.

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