In the news...

[Toshio Uemura]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Thank God EUCs are very difficult to learn, otherwise EUCs would be everywhere and soon banned everywhere.

And I thought we were promoting this hobby/mode of transportation ... ? 

[Mono]

6 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

Do the fine distinctions matter that much?

To my understanding in this case it was a matter of number and type of people making the distinction, not so much type of transport device.

[Thai-lad]

An interesting article on the Dutch approach to personal transport. https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/8/28/17789510/bike-cycling-netherlands-dutch-infrastructure

[LanghamP]

On 8/28/2018 at 9:08 AM, RockyTop said:

Wow!  This is so poorly written.  Is this what the news paper has come to?  I have seen better writing by 4th graders.  Even I could write as well.  ( or even gooder! ). This is more of a sullen jealous  rant.  No facts just hearsay and “ I don’t like it!”   Also, she should probably find a way to control her boys. 

Cities can find a way to build paths for bikes and other personal vehicles. 

I sometimes (but not seriously) wonder if there isn't a giant conspiracy made by the established transportation entities to prevent any new and better guys on the block from competing. An anti-bike group (ABG?).

Municipalities are organizations created for the common good; for transportation that would be "get the mostest the quickest at the cheapest."

And yet, and yet...we have see such shockingly expensive transportation infrastructure decisions that work so poorly that here we have LimeBike or Bird which are for-profit organizations serving a need that municipalities cannot meet. That seems perverse as it's usually the public good that puts the brakes on corporations.

Essentially, for-private bike/scooter shares are successful because they address a strong need. A lot of people aren't poor because they do not own a car, rather, they are poor because they own a car. Most people need to take out loans to afford a car, and it's estimated the median cost of owning a car is $8000 per year. And yet, you're locked into using a car most of the time because the infrastructure is built around autos.

Both LimeBike and Bird have proven to be extremely popular in the Metro cities of the US, making back their money quite quickly, and surprisingly eating into Uber and Lyft. People using Bird scooters in SF and LA were a lot poorer (read ethnic) and a lot younger than what was initially thought; again, the not in my backyard Liberals stop real progress although suburbanites are in my opinion just as bad if not worse simply due to their tremendously high energy usage.

[maltocs]

17 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

No mention of Electric Unicycles 

It'll be nice to get the bicycle path back. I only ride there once every other week on average. We'll see if I'm proactively kicked off - I can't recall ever seeing any kind of enforcement officers patrolling the area.

 

 

I was there on the "the day without a scooter" when Bird and Lime shutdown services in Santa Monica in protest. I just happened to decide to take my kid with his Razor E-Scooter and me on MTen3 on the Expo Line Metro to the beach that day. There was a Santa Monica PD EZ-Up on the bike path right at the Venice/Santa Monica city lines with cops kicking people off e-scooters as they went north into S.M. They didn't really mess with me, just looked at me funny as I rode by with my kid. They didn't issue citations, just told people they can't ride them on the bike path. People just went on streets for a block or two, then went right back on the bike path. 

You are probably exaggerating when you say it is out of control. Only a small percentage of e-scooter riders I would consider wreckless. But if you stood stationary on the path you'd probably see one every 20-30secs, so a small % is still a lot of wreckless. But it only takes ONE to take me out, and one almost did when she came onto the bike path full speed from a side entrance without even looking. Most of those on the bike path are young are dressed like tourists, not in beach attire.

Keeping my fingers crossed with the outcome as surely "Electric Powered Devices" and definitely "non-human powered devices" DOES include EUCs.

 

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, maltocs said:

I was there on the "the day without a scooter" when Bird and Lime shutdown services in Santa Monica in protest. I just happened to decide to take my kid with his Razor E-Scooter and me on MTen3 on the Expo Line Metro to the beach that day. There was a Santa Monica PD EZ-Up on the bike path right at the Venice/Santa Monica city lines with cops kicking people off e-scooters as they went north into S.M. They didn't really mess with me, just looked at me funny as I rode by with my kid. They didn't issue citations, just told people they can't ride them on the bike path. People just went on streets for a block or two, then went right back on the bike path. 

You are probably exaggerating when you say it is out of control. Only a small percentage of e-scooter riders I would consider wreckless. But if you stood stationary on the path you'd probably see one every 20-30secs, so a small % is still a lot of wreckless. But it only takes ONE to take me out, and one almost did when she came onto the bike path full speed from a side entrance without even looking. Most of those on the bike path are young are dressed like tourists, not in beach attire.

Keeping my fingers crossed with the outcome as surely "Electric Powered Devices" and definitely "non-human powered devices" DOES include EUCs.

 

I'm actually not exaggerating. The last few times that I've ridden this area, there were literally traffic jams where I couldn't pass because of the masses of scooters going both ways. And many reckless riders. Must depend on the time of day or which day you are there. It really has ruined my riding experience in that area. I used to be able to cruise fairly fast from Venice beach to the Santa Monica Pier. That's now impossible. I feel like I'm stuck in traffic on the freeway. I'm not exaggerating 

[maltocs]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm actually not exaggerating. The last few times that I've ridden this area, there were literally traffic jams where I couldn't pass because of the masses of scooters going both ways. And many reckless riders. Must depend on the time of day or which day you are there. It really has ruined my riding experience in that area. I used to be able to cruise fairly fast from Venice beach to the Santa Monica Pier. That's now impossible. I feel like I'm stuck in traffic on the freeway. I'm not exaggerating 

wow, okay, THAT I did not see, scooter traffic jams. Then again it was mid week late day.

On a different note, do you know if it is legal to ride ON THE BEACH since your z10 is somewhat capable of it on the damp hard packed sections?

[Rehab1]

14 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm actually not exaggerating. The last few times that I've ridden this area, there were literally traffic jams 

 

 

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, maltocs said:

wow, okay, THAT I did not see, scooter traffic jams. Then again it was mid week late day.

On a different note, do you know if it is legal to ride ON THE BEACH since your z10 is somewhat capable of it on the damp hard packed sections?

I have videos of me riding my MSuper's on the beach, at low tide. Very fun to do. I doubt that there are any laws against it since nobody rides anything along the water on the sand (I've never seen bikes, scooters, etc). And honestly, how would they even get to you to issue a warning 

[LanghamP]

33 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I have videos of me riding my MSuper's on the beach, at low tide. Very fun to do. I doubt that there are any laws against it since nobody rides anything along the water on the sand (I've never seen bikes, scooters, etc). And honestly, how would they even get to you to issue a warning 

How would they even be able to catch you, assuming they are bicycle police?

[Mono]

50 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm actually not exaggerating. The last few times that I've ridden this area, there were literally traffic jams where I couldn't pass because of the masses of scooters going both ways. And many reckless riders. Must depend on the time of day or which day you are there. It really has ruined my riding experience in that area. I used to be able to cruise fairly fast from Venice beach to the Santa Monica Pier. That's now impossible. I feel like I'm stuck in traffic on the freeway. I'm not exaggerating 

That sounds more like you lost the privilege to be one of only a few going with an PEV on this seaside promenade.

[RayRay]

I completely understand the Santa Monica City Council's decision to ban motorized devices on beach and park paths. The clutter of abandoned scooters was hurting tourism and they needed a quick fix.  However, the majority of the councils decisions had little to do with the safety and efficacy concerns and a lot to do with cronyism and money politics.

Bird, Lime, Lyft, and Uber will be allowed to operate ride-sharing services in Santa Monica. Two of these companies already operate ride-hailing services in the city. Lyft recently partnered with the Santa Monica Pier Corporation (SMPC) to provide tourist services and Uber has a large presence in the area (employing and serving many Angelinos). After it was initially recommended that only Lyft and Uber would receive permits, Bird and Lime balked. After a brief protest, Bird switched tactics and argued the benefits of governments partnering with local companies and even offered to contribute kickbacks (er, funds) towards 'infrastructure improvements'.  Lime followed suit and committed $1.5 million to improving Santa Monica infrastructure, like bike lanes.

In the end, a few insider companies willing to 'play-ball' with the city won the exclusive contracts. Lyft and Uber (both major car hailing entities) gained contracts despite not having a dockless sharing service already in place. Lyft gained expertise at cooperating with cities to incorporate ride-sharing platforms through its acquisition of Motivate. Uber has multimodal operations through a partnership with Lime and its acquisition of Jump. When local startup Bird suggested contributing $1 per scooter per day to pay for city improvements, the city saw its chance to earn over $1Million per year by charging all the winning companies this fee. The most well funded names in the dockless industry appear to have the edge in SoCal.

Meanwhile, all of this is the opposite of what has played out in the Bay Area. San Francisco spurned local phenoms Uber and Lyft (for lesser known Skip and Scoot). The backlash against dockless scooters also hurt Bird and Lime, who apparently are being punished for past sins. Progressive actions such as building more areas designated for 'parking' scooters, requiring physical locks, and other campaigns aimed at improving rider behavior are starting to take place.  Once all the dust settles and the backlash begins to dissipate, will cities opt to allow competition to flourish thereby keeping ride-sharing cost low (to complement public transport) or will the winners be whoever has the lobbying muscle to dominate markets (delegating ridership to mostly affluent fun-seekers)?

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by RayRay

[maltocs]

43 minutes ago, RayRay said:

completely understand the Santa Monica City Council's decision to ban motorized devices on beach and park paths. The clutter of abandoned scooters was hurting tourism and they needed a quick fix.  However, the majority of the councils decisions had little to do with the safety and efficacy concerns and a lot to do with cronyism and money politics.

Nice synopsis of what's going on in our hood. But where did you read this was hurting tourism? Seriously, when I was down there, it seems MOST of the riders were tourists. When you live here long enough, it's easy to pick them out. They're the skinny ones.

[RayRay]

15 minutes ago, maltocs said:

Nice synopsis of what's going on in our hood. But where did you read this was hurting tourism? Seriously, when I was down there, it seems MOST of the riders were tourists. When you live here long enough, it's easy to pick them out. They're the skinny ones.

Maybe a better term would be 'beach tourism' (including locals who want to head to the beach).

It was a bit of a reach, but I'm not actually there - so I used the term tourism as a catch-all to describe everybody affected by scooters blocking bike paths.

I haven't read much about who's actually causing all the scooters to be strewn about. (I guess some say tourists while others probably blame immigrants...) For all I know the rival companies are sabotaging each other by placing scooters in peoples paths (or the haters are doing it).

Edited August 31, 2018 by RayRay
discussion good (many assertions have been made)

[JomMas]

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I have videos of me riding my MSuper's on the beach, at low tide. Very fun to do. I doubt that there are any laws against it since nobody rides anything along the water on the sand (I've never seen bikes, scooters, etc). And honestly, how would they even get to you to issue a warning 

SaMo police have have 4x4 trucks. At night you see them cuz they're cruising around shining their crazy bright spotlight around the beach.

 

 They also cruise around the beach on their 4x4 ATVs too. 

 

With summer winding down they, (the crazy swarms of Bird/Lime e-scooter riders) would have cleared up anyway. The last 2 days have been incredibly great to ride on the bike path! Only a few Bird & Lime scooters around and I think the ones I saw where chargers making pick ups.

I think there was no need for a blanket ban. They could have just banned the Bird and Lime scooters - they're dock less and there were no problems with e - riders on the bike paths until those guys showed up. People who have their own personal rides like an e - bike, skateboard, EUC, etc shouldn't be punished since it was only the, (irresponsible) Lime/Bird riders causing all the problems.

Well, now we can just get back to roadies blasting through the bike path at 28+mph and lord help whoever gets in their way!

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, JomMas said:

SaMo police have have 4x4 trucks. At night you see them cuz they're cruising around shining their crazy bright spotlight around the beach.

 

 They also cruise around the beach on their 4x4 ATVs too. 

 

With summer winding down they, (the crazy swarms of Bird/Lime e-scooter riders) would have cleared up anyway. The last 2 days have been incredibly great to ride on the bike path! Only a few Bird & Lime scooters around and I think the ones I saw where chargers making pick ups.

I think there was no need for a blanket ban. They could have just banned the Bird and Lime scooters - they're dock less and there were no problems with e - riders on the bike paths until those guys showed up. People who have their own personal rides like an e - bike, skateboard, EUC, etc shouldn't be punished since it was only the, (irresponsible) Lime/Bird riders causing all the problems.

Well, now we can just get back to roadies blasting through the bike path at 28+mph and lord help whoever gets in their way!

Nice update. I've yet to ride the Santa Monica beach at low time - I've always ridden the Redondo Beach area and haven't spotted the 4x4's but imagine they are there too.

[Thai-lad]

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/07/as-electric-scooter-use-increases-so-do-trips-to-the-er/

Don't know if I should post here or in a wearing protection thread...

[Circuitmage]

Cant read that article , says I've reached my 30 day limit.

 

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, Circuitmage said:

Cant read that article , says I've reached my 30 day limit.

Delete your browser data (cookies) and you're fresh and new

[Esper]

On 9/11/2018 at 8:44 AM, Circuitmage said:

Cant read that article , says I've reached my 30 day limit.

 

Pro Tip. If reading an article on a news site that only allows X amount per day/week/month. Right click and open in Incognito Mode.  
Pro Tip 2. There is a website and chrome addon called Outline. It takes any web page and rips all the main text out and places it in a nice format without ads or any other weird formatting. The chrome addon places a button that you can press on the page for easy Outline access.
Pro Tip 2.5. You can also use outline by simply placing 'outline.com/' in front of ANY url.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Esper

[Circuitmage]

I tend not to go to that much effort on websites that don't want me there.

[Esper]

1 hour ago, Circuitmage said:

I tend not to go to that much effort on websites that don't want me there.

The right click and open in Incognito is not a lot of effort though. It is literally 1 extra button that takes less than 3 seconds to do.

[Esper]

On 9/10/2018 at 11:20 PM, Thai-lad said:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/07/as-electric-scooter-use-increases-so-do-trips-to-the-er/

Don't know if I should post here or in a wearing protection thread...

I outlined it here for anyone wishing to look at it.
https://outline.com/98Z8sZ

[Circuitmage]

OMG...another button? 

[LanghamP]

On 9/11/2018 at 1:20 AM, Thai-lad said:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/07/as-electric-scooter-use-increases-so-do-trips-to-the-er/

Don't know if I should post here or in a wearing protection thread...

I read that article when it first came out. Some thoughts;

I wonder how many scooters were sabotaged. If I were anyone scooter then cutting brake lines would probably be pretty darned effective.

Scooters and bicycles get hit by cars a lot even when they follow the law, but I've never heard a car driver going to the ER from a car to bike crash.

There's a lot of car to car fatalities, so many that they don't even warrant attention.

Roads are for cars and sidewalks are for everything else, methinks sidewalks are overloaded. What do we do when roads cannot carry enough cars? Can we do the same thing with sidewalks?