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The Byrd scooters (which we had here for a few days before St Louis kicked them out) are somewhat expensive.

$1 to start, then 15 cents per minute.

Assuming a gentle 10 mph (they max out at 12 mph) so around $10 per hour, or about $1 per mile.

In comparison, I commonly ride my EUCs 10-20 mp per day, and my bicycle 20-50 miles per day (I use the bicycle for longer distances), and so you can see that within a very short amount of time the Byrd scooter would exceed just buying the EUC or bicycle outright.

However, the Byrd scooter's appeal is being able to leave it without worry about it being stolen.

And theft is a big problem with bicycles and, presumably, EUCs that are left alone. 100% of people in my bicycle club, including me, have had their bicycle stolen at least once regardless of its locked status. Theft is just a huge problem, much more than most people realize, and Byrd scooters/Limebike solves this problem by making the vehicles public.

The problem that it raises, of course, is that undoubtedly the same people who steal bicycles also trash the public vehicles. Honestly, there's no helping scum and villainy.

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48 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

And theft is a big problem with bicycles and, presumably, EUCs that are left alone. .

Theft is one of the reasons I bought an EUC. My first folding bike was stolen within 2 weeks in Brussels.

I take my EUC literally everywhere with me: shops, theater, bars, under my desk at work, etc... obviously a decent trolley is key, another reason I lean more towards KS and IM.

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1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

The Byrd scooters (which we had here for a few days before St Louis kicked them out) are somewhat expensive.

$1 to start, then 15 cents per minute.

Assuming a gentle 10 mph (they max out at 12 mph) so around $10 per hour, or about $1 per mile.

In comparison, I commonly ride my EUCs 10-20 mp per day, and my bicycle 20-50 miles per day (I use the bicycle for longer distances), and so you can see that within a very short amount of time the Byrd scooter would exceed just buying the EUC or bicycle outright.

However, the Byrd scooter's appeal is being able to leave it without worry about it being stolen.

And theft is a big problem with bicycles and, presumably, EUCs that are left alone. 100% of people in my bicycle club, including me, have had their bicycle stolen at least once regardless of its locked status. Theft is just a huge problem, much more than most people realize, and Byrd scooters/Limebike solves this problem by making the vehicles public.

The problem that it raises, of course, is that undoubtedly the same people who steal bicycles also trash the public vehicles. Honestly, there's no helping scum and villainy.

Why did the scooters get kicked out of St Louis?  They just were approved here in Kansas City yesterday and the City will be making money on the rental.

Edited by fryman
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16 minutes ago, fryman said:

Why did the scooters get kicked out of St Louis?  They just were approved here in Kansas City yesterday and the City will be making money on the rental.

The business immediately drew the attention of city officials. Koran Addo, a spokesman for St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson, said the company launched without the needed permit .

“We are in favor of these dockless programs, but this company did not go about it in the right way,” Addo said. “They absolutely came in and started operating without a permit. They didn’t even reach out to the city until (Thursday) morning.”

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Most public servants and elected officials, despite being stewards of the people, are either ignorant or (worse yet) not stewards of the people.

You would do everything possible to reduce the number of internal combustion engine vehicles in your city because the health effects and the minimum dollar amount damage due to ICE's is now well known. In other words, the medical costs due to polluting autos far exceeds any auto-related revenue you can collect from your citizens.

To me, this seems so obvious, that if you were to dump 65 million dollars to purchase a "free" electric scooter for every man, woman, and child for St Louis, and they were to use the e-scooters occasionally, then the city of St Louis would still come out ahead due to the saved health care expenses alone. And that's just in the first year.

Let's just be optimistic, and assume it costs $500,000 to treat carbon related cancers such as caused by carbon being breathed into the lungs. All you would have to do is stop 100 people from getting carbon related cancers. That's it. Mind you a tank of gas puts out something like 70 pounds of carbon dioxide...

If cities were interested in public good, then they would be begging for Byrd and other types of electrics into their boundaries.

From a public good viewpoint, these electrics are a bargain. It's absolutely bonkers to ban them. It's the equivalent of throwing away a hundred dollar bill at the end of the year in order to make a buck today.

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2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

the flip side, these sharing programs are the best thing that could have happened for us; each Bird/Lime Scooter is a Gateway drug, 

Jason old buddy, that would make you the drug dealer. :thumbup:

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3 hours ago, Michael Vu said:

Links from two more news articles with very unflattering pictures of me in them.....

Thanks for getting involved Michael. There was nothing unflattering with your photos in the 2 articles. 

A reader just posted a response to the one of the articles (abbreviated) pertaining to the San Antonio City Ordinance on motor assisted scooters.  Is there a specific law for EUCs or one wheeled vehicles in your city?

 
Tommy Thompson on August 2, 2018 at 10:51 AMsaid:

San Antonio City Ordinance Sec. 19-294

Motor assisted scooters, neighborhood electric vehicles, pocket bikes, and mini motorbikes.

Motor assisted scooter means:

(1) A self-propelled device with:

a. At least two (2) wheels in contact with the ground during operation; (et al.)................

 

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It's a shame that there are e-bike share and e-scooter share companies, but no EUC share companies.  Yet fundamentally, there is nothing preventing such a thing except that no one knows how to ride them...  which is a problem that's not that difficult to solve.   Apple realized that a long time ago, when they started their school support programs.

 

Likewise EUC dealers and manufacturers could, if they were so inclined, provide inexpensive loaner wheels to elementary schools for a week or two of balance training during the winter months leading up to Christmas.  Volunteer EUC riders could give the students lessons; most 10 to 13 year olds would probably master the skill in an hour or less.  Most schools would jump at the chance, I think, to add this to their gym curriculum, if not it could be set up as a lunch time or after school program.  Staging a riding contest with an EUC as the prize at each school would ensure the winner would be a strong evangelist to the other students.  Having the final contest round occur during a football or basketball half time break would maximize the public exposure.  

 

Additional Christmas gift sales of EUCs should more than repay the initial investment, but the real benefit is the huge rise in EUC-capable teen numbers if this program was repeated year after year.

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On 8/3/2018 at 9:18 AM, Thai-lad said:

It's a shame that there are e-bike share and e-scooter share companies, but no EUC share companies.

The backlash on e-scooter sharing is all over the web today because of LA Times article. (Also, a couple of older articles...)

37185707_250991359051296_6535334593938063F3RQKRFUE4M5I53NANGGDQCF4.jpg

I'm afraid the time isn't right for EUC sharing (except among friends). :cheers:

 

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16 minutes ago, RayRay said:

The backlash on e-scooter sharing is all over the web today because of LA Times article. (Also, a couple of older articles...)

37185707_250991359051296_6535334593938063F3RQKRFUE4M5I53NANGGDQCF4.jpg

I'm afraid the time isn't right for EUC sharing (except among friends). :cheers:

 

I think their are three main reasons for the scooter backlash.  

The first is the parking problem.  This could be addressed by dedicating reserved parking spaces on each block, protected from automobiles by the installation of vertical posts blocking vehicle access.  Sounds extreme?  Many cities are already taxing ride-share companies for each scooter, so they should be prepared to re-invest some of those funds in basic infrastructure dedicated to this new form of transport.  Once dedicated parking was available, people leaving them blocking the sidewalk would be fined.

The second is the inconsiderate/untrained rider problem.  A backlash based on that will affect all PEVs, including EUCs.  Rules similar to the ones in effect in Singapore (but a bit more reasonable and less restrictive, so that people will accept to follow them and innovation not be stifled), coupled with active "traffic" enforcement plus public service education on the "rules of the sidewalk and/or road" as applies to PEVs would eventually tame that problem.

Cities have had to deal with disruptive transportation issues before; we've all just become so accustomed to the primacy of the automobile that for many people, it's all they've ever known, and therefore they assume that autos have some sort of "right" to dominate the city roadways.  Which brings me to the final reason for the backlash, the scooter  share companies have taken the approach that it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.  Which given municipalities unwillingness to tackle the legislative and regulatory actions needed until forced to do so, I completely understand.  But it comes at a cost.

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22 hours ago, Holt said:

During a ride to lunch on my KS18s on a workday in downtown Raleigh last week somebody called out 'Hey look its the Bird Master!'.

Uh oh! That means we might be in for a 'rough ride' due to all the backlash against the d*ckless... (Dockless scooter users behaving badly)

I agree with @Thai-lad especially the part where he said...

On 8/10/2018 at 9:34 PM, Thai-lad said:

Cities have had to deal with disruptive transportation issues before; we've all just become so accustomed to the primacy of the automobile that for many people, it's all they've ever known, and therefore they assume that autos have some sort of "right" to dominate the city roadways.

I just don't want to get run off the road by someone with a grievance against e-scooters in the meantime... :efeed51798:

Edited by RayRay
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On 8/3/2018 at 11:18 PM, Thai-lad said:

It's a shame that there are e-bike share and e-scooter share companies, but no EUC share companies.  Yet fundamentally, there is nothing preventing such a thing except that no one knows how to ride them...  which is a problem that's not that difficult to solve.   Apple realized that a long time ago, when they started their school support programs.

 

Likewise EUC dealers and manufacturers could, if they were so inclined, provide inexpensive loaner wheels to elementary schools for a week or two of balance training during the winter months leading up to Christmas.  Volunteer EUC riders could give the students lessons; most 10 to 13 year olds would probably master the skill in an hour or less.  Most schools would jump at the chance, I think, to add this to their gym curriculum, if not it could be set up as a lunch time or after school program.  Staging a riding contest with an EUC as the prize at each school would ensure the winner would be a strong evangelist to the other students.  Having the final contest round occur during a football or basketball half time break would maximize the public exposure.  

 

Additional Christmas gift sales of EUCs should more than repay the initial investment, but the real benefit is the huge rise in EUC-capable teen numbers if this program was repeated year after year.

Brilliant idea. Australia is just waking up to EUCs. It would be a great idea to promote awareness in this way. 

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Yes, unfortunately I do see the downtown e-scooter use massively increasing, and along with that is the noob rider syndrome.

1) They are going down the sidewalks at full speed, almost clipping people, not stopping at intersections. I've already seen web posts of people in the hospital from not safe driving. There are many people riding safely, but it's the one or two a day going at full speed and being inconsiderate that leaves a bad mark.

2) They are riding down the main streets, with no safety gear, among the cars...something I won't even do on my EUC.

3) And yes...they are still leaving these things laying around wherever they want. More obstacles for us.

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On 8/15/2018 at 8:40 AM, Thai-lad said:

https://www.flexport.com/blog/scooter-war-caught-up-in-trade-war/ 

https://qz.com/1311881/the-us-china-trade-war-could-hurt-hot-silicon-valley-startups-bird-spin-limebike/

There may be fewer of them showing up in the future...  unfortunately EUCs will probably also get caught in this.

The public and media assault on e-scooters could unfortunately have a negative impact on EUC owners in the future. If you look at recent social media comments and posted signs appearing around communities the public’s outrage against e-scooters is multiplying.

If the general public begins to form hasty generalizations grouping respectful EUC riders with immature e-bike renters that are fragrantly abusing basic public courtesies we could easily be subjected to guilt by association. 

43228449455_01711e31ac_b.jpg

 

30267080158_c6d19f1916_b.jpg

 

 

Edited by Rehab1
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24 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

The public and media assault on e-scooters could unfortunately have a negative impact on EUC owners in the future. If you look at recent social media comments and posted signs appearing around communities the public’s outrage against e-scooters is multiplying.

If the general public begins to form hasty generalizations grouping respectful EUC riders with immature e-bike renters that are fragrantly abusing basic public courtesies we could easily be subjected to guilt by association. 

43228449455_01711e31ac_b.jpg

 

30267080158_c6d19f1916_b.jpg

 

 

This is what I see (including that sign BTW) during my beach rides from Venice Beach to Santa Monica. The E-Scooters are really out of control.

Fortunately, my sense is that people are not conflating my EUC with these scooters when they see me. We are still a unique breed :thumbup:

Edited by Marty Backe
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1 hour ago, novazeus said:

this doesn’t help our cause.

 

I disagree. This video was hilarious. Bravo for the guys who created it. So funny :laughbounce2:

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