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KS16: After accident constant beeps...


Gunthor
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I need advice:

My accident today: Batteries not fully loaded: I drive up the hill to my bakery - then I drive down the hill (I do this regularly - a route I am acquainted with). On the steep decline (20%) I hear 3 beeps  - pause - 3 beeps  while the KS16 is having difficulties decelerating. I jump off (no harm done to myself) and the wheel jumps into the air and is doing 3 loops before crashing into a metal post. The plastic covers (the top one and one on the side) break on two locations. The KS16 refuses to get switched off (Power button does not seem to function). The wheel seems to be locked somehow and it takes some effort to push it downhill for approximately 50 meter to my house. Only after lying the wheel sideways it switched off after maybe 30 seconds. When switching the wheel on it beeps constantly (without a pattern)!

In my cellar I dismounted the plastic covers, disconnected the power-cord for 10 minutes, reconnected it and tried again, but my hope for a reset was in vain - again: Beep - Beep - Beep - Beep - Beep - Beep - Beep...

My next intension was to upgrade the firmware, but my KingSong app cannot connect to my KS16! This is nothing new. For well over a year the KingSong app does not connect any longer with my KS16! As I always use WheelLog (this works reliably) I opened this app - the connection is done instantaneously but the second page does not contain any information!!! I guess there may be something wrong with sensors (because of the impact with the metal post!?). What do you think? Any advice... ?

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Sounds like you need a new board. Whether or not board failure was the cause of the accident, no idea.

You could open it up and see it a mosfet is blown, which would explain the locked tire. Or maybe you see some other damage.

First step would be to ask your seller.

And don't try to ride it again, even if it somehow starts working again. You need to find out what happened!

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OK - installing the "monster" KingSong App (>40MB) did the trick in order to upgrade firmware from 1.18 to 2.25. The constant beeping switched off for upgrading but returned once the firmware upgrade finished. One more thing: The serial number is no longer displayed in the KingSong app (before and after firmware update)!

Thank you meepmeepmayer for your input. I couldn't reach Chris (1Radwerkstatt.de) on his phone this morning so I'll have to wait until Monday. :(

However - I searched the control board with a torch looking out for anything "burned" - but everything looks normal - even below the cables:

98rlvm.jpg

The unicycle appears to be ridable (wheel spins freely!) apart from the constant beeping. . .

Edited by Gunthor
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6 hours ago, Gunthor said:

 

OK - installing the "monster" KingSong App (>40MB) did the trick in order to upgrade firmware from 1.18 to 2.25. The constant beeping switched off for upgrading but returned once the firmware upgrade finished. One more thing: The serial number is no longer displayed in the KingSong app (before and after firmware update)!

Thank you meepmeepmayer for your input. I couldn't reach Chris (1Radwerkstatt.de) on his phone this morning so I'll have to wait until Monday. :(

However - I searched the control board with a torch looking out for anything "burned" - but everything looks normal - even below the cables:

98rlvm.jpg

The unicycle appears to be ridable (wheel spins freely!) apart from the constant beeping. . .

Everyone has their own comfort level, but I'm never going to ride a one-wheel self-balancing device that is behaving in any abnormal manner.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just a final note to this issue: The accident triggered a Hardware-Reset of the control board. My dealer used his tools to fix it. Today I received my KS16 back and can ride again...

  • without those constant beeps
  • without showing four red LEDs on each side
  • with displaying the serial number in the KingSong app and
  • with displaying all other information in the Wheel Log app

:D

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2 hours ago, Gunthor said:

Just a final note to this issue: The accident triggered a Hardware-Reset of the control board. My dealer used his tools to fix it. Today I received my KS16 back and can ride again...

  • without those constant beeps
  • without showing four red LEDs on each side
  • with displaying the serial number in the KingSong app and
  • with displaying all other information in the Wheel Log app

:D

 

On 4/7/2018 at 1:58 PM, Gunthor said:

On the steep decline (20%) I hear 3 beeps  - pause - 3 beeps  while the KS16 is having difficulties decelerating. I jump off (no harm done to myself) and the wheel jumps into the air and is doing 3 loops before crashing into a metal pos

So the hardware reset happened in because of the accident - you also know what caused the accident? This three beeps and the dificulties with deceleration?

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My assumption is that I went down the hill faster than normal and then when decelerating the beeping started. Today I drove down this part of the mountain more carefully. I need to build up trust to this wheel again ?

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And the story goes on...

Same setup: Batteries not fully loaded (1.5 amp limit with charge doctor v2): I drive up the hill to my bakery - then I drive down the hill (I do this regularly - a route I am acquainted with). I enter the steep decline (20%) slower than usual (still afraid of what happened last month) and pass the position I had the accident. Nevertheless the KS16 again starts shaking, I decelerate moderately and hear it beeping again! Fortunately the street is empty, the steep decline already behind me (currently only ~15%), I softly continued to decelerate and managed to "ride" (I should say swim because my arms were doing a lot of silly looking swimming motions) further downhill with only ~10% decline while the whole EUC is wobbling violently from side to side - (this was really scary)! Then I grabbed the handle, jumped off and ran alongside the EUC until I managed to stop. Catching breath the KS16 looked and sounded normal as if mocking me (and my now shaking legs)!

Yesterday I had no difficulties:

In the morning: 10 km
In the afternoon: 10 km
In the evening: 27 km

But the batteries were more empty when riding downhill! My assumption is that my batteries are worn out and have difficulties storing the produced energy when going downhill (even though they managed to do so in the past). My KS16 is 2 years old (with approximately 10.000 km* - I had to replace a totally worn out tyre two months ago), but I managed to ride 57 km at Easter (this was the first and only time I depleted the 100% filled batteries to 0-1%). So I thought the batteries are still OK. I will set my charge doctor v2 to 1.8 amp limit and hope this will help avoiding such situations. Can someone confirm decreasing charging abilities of aging batteries? If this is the case then EUCs need to be equipped with charge doctor functionalities and dynamic program-settings depending on logged battery performance taking into account individual riding habits.

What are your thoughts on this issue?

 

*Sidenote: I regret doing the firmware update from 1.18 to 2.25 because the total km display (odometer) now is getting reset regularly! This bug was in firmware 1.16 and corrected in firmware 1.18! How come it slipped into firmware 2.25? :furious:  All I know now is that my accident is not a firmware issue because I experienced the same issue with 2.25 as I did with 1.1.8!

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12 minutes ago, Gunthor said:

And the story goes on...

Same setup: Batteries not fully loaded (1.5 amp limit with charge doctor v2): I drive up the hill to my bakery - then I drive down the hill (I do this regularly - a route I am acquainted with). I enter the steep decline (20%) slower than usual (still afraid of what happened last month) and pass the position I had the accident. Nevertheless the KS16 again starts shaking, I decelerate moderately and hear it beeping again! Fortunately the street is empty, the steep decline already behind me (currently only ~15%), I softly continued to decelerate and managed to "ride" (I should say swim because my arms were doing a lot of silly looking swimming motions) further downhill with only ~10% decline while the whole EUC is wobbling violently from side to side - (this was really scary)! Then I grabbed the handle, jumped off and ran alongside the EUC until I managed to stop. Catching breath the KS16 looked and sounded normal as if mocking me (and my now shaking legs)!

About time to stop riding this KS16 - until the problem is resolved! I assume you are not to eager reporting of an grave accident... :(

Quote

Yesterday I had no difficulties:

In the morning: 10 km
In the afternoon: 10 km
In the evening: 27 km

But the batteries were more empty when riding downhill! My assumption is that my batteries are worn out and have difficulties storing the produced energy when going downhill (even though they managed to do so in the past). My KS16 is 2 years old (with approximately 10.000 km* - I had to replace a totally worn out tyre two months ago), but I managed to ride 57 km at Easter (this was the first and only time I depleted the 100% filled batteries to 0-1%). So I thought the batteries are still OK.

That seems to be a normal range and should indicate a good overall battery cells state! And easter is not to long past - would be very strange for cells to detoriate so fast. I'd strongly assume you did not store your wheel at below freezing temperatures or fullly charged in some very hot place (car trunk/porch in the direct sun shine)?

Quote

I will set my charge doctor v2 to 1.8 amp limit and hope this will help avoiding such situations.

Thats about which end voltage/ charge percent? Once one only charges to ~90% there should be absolutely no prob with breaking... Which voltage shows your KS after charging?

Quote

 Can someone confirm decreasing charging abilities of aging batteries? If this is the case then EUCs need to be equipped with charge doctor functionalities and dynamic program-settings depending on logged battery performance taking into account individual riding habits.

You could look at the charged Wh shown from the Charge Doctor charging the battery from empty to full, if there is some bigger discrepancy in announced Wh and measured Wh...

Quote

What are your thoughts on this issue?

 

*Sidenote: I regret doing the firmware update from 1.18 to 2.25 because the total km display (odometer) now is getting reset regularly! This bug was in firmware 1.16 and corrected in firmware 1.18! How come it slipped into firmware 2.25? :furious:  All I know now is that my accident is not a firmware issue because I experienced the same issue with 2.25 as I did with 1.1.8!

There is imo the possibility to downgrade a KS if one has the binary file... Maybe @HermanTheGerman has some and knows how to?

Edited by Chriull
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Thank you @Chriull,

11 minutes ago, Chriull said:

That seems to be a normal range and should indicate a good overall battery cells state! And easter is not to long past - would be very strange for cells to detoriate so fast. I'd strongly assume you did not store your wheel at below freezing temperatures or fullly charged in some very hot place (car trunk/porch in the direct sun shine)?

The wheel is always stored in a cupboard within my office or in my cellar at home. 

11 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Thats about which end voltage/ charge percent? Once one only charges to ~90% there should be absolutely no prob with breaking... Which voltage shows your KS after charging?

1.5 amp equals about 90% battery capacity. My intension to set the limit to 1.8 amp should result in ~85% or less (need to check). I just checked (didn't touch the wheel since this incident yet) and my KS16 reads 90% battery capacity and 64,4 Volt.

11 minutes ago, Chriull said:

You could look at the charged Wh shown from the Charge Doctor charging the battery from empty to full, if there is some bigger discrepancy in announced Wh and measured Wh...

My usual charges go from 35-40% up to 90% and are usually above 5 Ah. I didn't notice any BIG discrepancies - however I don't log this info only take a brief look.

Thank you for the downgrade hint - however I feel reluctant about this as it will not restore my odometer reading. :efee8c29ce:

If the battery seems to be alright, then control board and motor could be the issue: But I think it is not the motor - if so I would get this behavior always when going downhill which is not the case. And I think it is not the control board either - there is nothing discolored, burned or looking unusual. And the incident repeated twice now with two different firmwares! 

One thought comes to mind: Changing the tyre two months ago required me to dis- and reconnect the battery pack. Maybe I reconnected poorly...? I will check...

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OK - this clearly wasn't it: Connection was perfect:

huhguo.jpg

ibcpzm.jpg

The 3 bigger sockets are also recognizable and the connection is firm. After reassembly I switched on the EUC and did a few but strong pendulum motions. !!!HOLY SMOKE!!! something is seriously wrong with this unit: At each forward <> backward turn there is some "play" where the pedals move ~1cm up (forward > backward) or down (backward > forward). This feels anything but stable! However those were my first pendulum motions with the new firmware. I need to check the riding settings. I hope this seriously wrong behavior feeling is due to some Chinese default setting coming along with the 2.25 firmware that I did not notice yet...

Edited by Gunthor
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1 hour ago, Gunthor said:

OK - this clearly wasn't it: Connection was perfect:

huhguo.jpg

ibcpzm.jpg

The 3 bigger sockets are also recognizable and the connection is firm. After reassembly I switched on the EUC and did a few but strong pendulum motions. !!!HOLY SMOKE!!! something is seriously wrong with this unit: At each forward <> backward turn there is some "play" where the pedals move ~1cm up (forward > backward) or down (backward > forward). This feels anything but stable! However those were my first pendulum motions with the new firmware. I need to check the riding settings. I hope this seriously wrong behavior feeling is due to some Chinese default setting coming along with the 2.25 firmware that I did not notice yet...

ihave used the x.25 firmware a longer time and didnt have any problems beside the km announced.

the app does not log the last ride if the wheel is powerd off before the app (or it was vice versa)

 

If you really have  very large play in the pedal...i would think that thats a hardware prob with the capacitors! a leg of then loose or something e!se.! If so....stop riding ...faceplant will come sooner or later!

other reason,might be a board problem with voltagd measuring!

The very early Ks16 boards are known to have both of those probs in a low percentage of them!

Fazit:

check haRdware...change the board(after measuring the battery packs...which i exspect to be OK!)

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Thank you for your insight @US69. I just did some test that may confirm what you say: The KS16 is in Player mode. I turned on voice control and after two pendulum movements I hear "Be cautious - Overpowered!"

20 minutes ago, US69 said:

If you really have  very large play in the pedal...i would think that thats a hardware prob with the capacitors! a leg of then loose or something e!se.! If so....stop riding ...faceplant will come sooner or later!

I also tried calibration: After 5 short beeps instead of getting a long beep another short beep exits the calibration! Then the wheel looses its self-balancing abilities even though it is still on (LEDs are shining bright). After about 30 seconds (no push on the power button!) the balancing abilities return. I use the power button to switch the EUC off. Then tried to switch it on again and can only hear a faint beep from the mainboard (stays off!). I hold the power-button pressed and can hear the fan kicking in followed by a loud continuing whining tone (no LED light, no self balancing ability). :eff04a58a6: I managed to switch it off by pressing the power-button for 1 second. Then I waited a minute and retried: Three times I am now able to switch on and off the EUC successfully.  I also think this might be due to dying capacitators...

...I will chat with my dealer next week and ask him if he too thinks replacing the control-board will solve the issue. 

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1 hour ago, Gunthor said:

will chat with my dealer next week and ask him if he too thinks replacing the control-board will solve the issue. 

Whatever is the outcome...my advise would be -until then- definitly not to ride anymore:

There seams to be some nasty software/hardware glitches on your board. Even with 10000km (respect! very impressive) i would still guess has nothing todo with the batterys. If your seller is scooterhelden or electro-sport...i will guess they would send you to 1radwerkstatt, where you will receive the best knowledge available in germany (if not even europe or more ? )

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