US Administration's Tariffs May Effect Electric Unicycles!

[Esash]

15 minutes ago, SuperSport said:

Hahahaha!!!  

I mean for a real wheel. ?

That's the other issue. Biggest reason US wheels would cost double would be some company like Solowheel thinking they can "get away with it"

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

SuperSport!  Welcome back from the abyss!  I'm sure there will be people like you who would purchase at twice the price for made in US products, but I think the availability of Chinese wheels even at 25% more in price would tend to lure purchasers away for some people.

Why didn't you buy a Solowheel?   It's engineered in the US with safety and liability in mind.  Price is about double the Chinese offerings for half the performance.  Buying a Solowheel would support an US company and your economy.  Imagine how much iPhones would cost if they made them in the US entirely.  Would you buy a $3400 iPhone X,  or would you rather buy a Xiaomi android phone for $200 + $25 tariff fee?  I think in the end, it's more a matter of whether you want to pay $3400 for a US wheel versus $1800 say for a Chinese wheel with the same performance specifications.

Trump is getting things done?  It just looks like he is doing an extended version of "The Apprentice" by firing everyone and endlessly replacing them while having fun with porn stars on the side.    How can you have an effective government if the managers are changing so often?  Usually high staff turnover is a sign that something is not working well.

I have no clue though so since I'm not a big fan of politics.  Maybe Trump is doing much better than Obama?  It just doesn't seem so clear from what I hear on the news.  South and North Korean are doing much better so that's a good thing.  It sure makes news reports on The Daily Show entertaining! Is the general concensus that Trump is doing a good job?  What positive things has he accomplished?  Do you think these proposed tariffs are a good thing?

People up here seem to like Trudeau, but I honestly wonder whether legalizing marijuana is the best idea.  It's like opening up a big can of worms... kinda like talking about politics.  

[houseofjob]

9 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

Imagine a no-frills version of the V8 that sold for $700, or a no-frills KS14D for $500, etc etc.

They've basically already done something like this, look up Glide 2 Lite and KS14M.

 

9 minutes ago, SuperSport said:

Hahahaha!!!  

I mean for a real wheel. ?

Tariffs + US patent trolling means, for your MiUSA, this IS one of your real wheel options then.

[Esash]

15 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

They've basically already done something like this, look up Glide 2 Lite and KS14M.

 

 

Those are both 500 watt motors, with low speed limits. When a lot of prospective EUC fans see that the top speed is 12 mph and it only goes 8 miles on a charge, it just seems like another hoverboard toy.

 

[houseofjob]

8 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

Those are both 500 watt motors, with low speed limits. When a lot of prospective EUC fans see that the top speed is 12 mph and it only goes 8 miles on a charge, it just seems like another hoverboard toy.

You're not thinking like a company with a set budget / bottom line and ROI for the most expensive investments, like outer shell molding lasts.

They need to get proper return first, via sales running on average 2 years per model design. Then they can blowout the model as an intro wheel, plus driving down production cost by removing unessential details and specs.

The V8 and KS14 are too new right now for that. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot, poor business decisions.

[eddiemoy]

27 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

Any kind of global economic slowdown could also change EUC business models.

Right now there's an arms race with everybody coming out with $1700-2500 wheels. Reminds me of the 1990s economic bubble when everybody was buying luxury SUVs and that's all the car companies wanted to make.

If business strategy changed more towards value and cheap price, we could start seeing some great deals on some 800 watt wheels like the V8 or the KS14D/KS14s, and 1200 watt wheels like the KS16s.

Imagine a no-frills version of the V8 that sold for $700, or a no-frills KS14D for $500, etc etc.

Today's EUC market seems to be driven by speed addiction and the luxury market, not practicality or expanding the market to as many people as possible. 

If a trade war and/or economic recession changed business strategies to focus more on the entry level/mid level wheels, and focused on making good wheels affordable to as many people as possible, that could be a very good thing for the industry.

 

What wheel are you going to double up on? I forget which wheel you like best.

If money was the barrier, the $300 NB1 C+ would have accelerated the adoption.  But it didn’t....  I don’t think it is a pricing issue preventing people from buying.  I still think it is just too hard to learn.  Even the mini pro with the less than 1 minute learning time didn’t speed up people’s adoption.  Strange.  On second thought when the mini pro came out it was close to $1000.   They dropped the price to sub $500 now.  Will see if it gets more adoption.  It certainly isn’t as fun as an EUC.

[dmethvin]

Well face it, an EUC is a luxury item at this point and nobody outside our forum is going to care if they get a tariff or not. So if there really are tariffs implemented it wouldn't surprise me to see EUCs in there.

If China does retaliatory tariffs it will hurt a lot of Americans, especially with agricultural products that we ship there. The tariffs will also make the steel used in US-built products more expensive, even if the steel comes from somewhere other than China. It may even cause scarcity on some products because not all raw material is the same and China may be the only supplier of some forms. The whole thing is a bit ironic because nearly all of the areas affected were pro-Trump and they will suffer the most. Let's just hope that everyone comes to their senses before a lot of people get hurt.

[FreeRide]

4 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

If money was the barrier, the $300 NB1 C+ would have accelerated the adoption.  But it didn’t....  I don’t think it is a pricing issue preventing people from buying.  I still think it is just too hard to learn.  Even the mini pro with the less than 1 minute learning time didn’t speed up people’s adoption.  Strange.  

While I agree, until you have a certain level of recognition you can get all the emotional factors working in purchase decisions.  I would not buy a NB1 C+ if it was $100 because it's not a wheel that I consider useful.  But Granted, money is not the main adoption issue.   Still the companies have to survive with their current customer base as more people get exposed to them, and that means they have to sell more, newer wheels to their existing customers and try to find news ones.  Price matters.  You don't want to lose those inclined to try one because the price of the wheels most people are using or recommended are out of their price range.  Most people don't really want to buy a learner wheel and then have to upgrade it so fast so they can really have something they like and is useful.

[novazeus]

45 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

Any kind of global economic slowdown could also change EUC business models.

Right now there's an arms race with everybody coming out with $1700-2500 wheels. Reminds me of the 1990s economic bubble when everybody was buying luxury SUVs and that's all the car companies wanted to make.

If business strategy changed more towards value and cheap price, we could start seeing some great deals on some 800 watt wheels like the V8 or the KS14D/KS14s, and 1200 watt wheels like the KS16s.

Imagine a no-frills version of the V8 that sold for $700, or a no-frills KS14D for $500, etc etc.

Today's EUC market seems to be driven by speed addiction and the luxury market, not practicality or expanding the market to as many people as possible. 

If a trade war and/or economic recession changed business strategies to focus more on the entry level/mid level wheels, and focused on making good wheels affordable to as many people as possible, that could be a very good thing for the industry.

 

What wheel are you going to double up on? I forget which wheel you like best.

for me at the ranch, 18s is my favorite, but i’m hoping the z10 will fit me better. the ks16s and the new v10f sb nice safe wheels for my pavement, and possibly future pavement. if the z10 wins out, i’ll try for redundacy there. so if i don’t sell any, that would put me at 9 wheels if u count batman s2 trying to kill or maim me. at least i’ve been getting a warning that it’s hurting. could be my imagination but today with what i’d call “snap back” as opposed to “tilt back” i coulda sworn i heard something like my mosquito zapper between the blurted chirp. it kept going but started out very slowly like regaining it’s composure. i’m always planning on falling like a thousand times a minute, analyzing every square inch of my road and shoulder looking to where i might bail. i didn’t like it, but it didn’t throw me, but i’m taking that and the wobbles as it trying to communicate with me. if it was a big ass cordless drill, i’d probably stop using that too, until i figure out what is wrong. i’m in a different environment where i hear exactly how hard that motor is working. same road over and over. side by side comparisons.that’s why i wanna taste them all, except gotway. i don’t know anything about them but even the people that love them question their quality and i’m too perfectionist in building stuff, poor build quality, whether it worked great or not, would bug the shit out of me. simple, rugged, low maintenance, safety, strong, tracks like it’s on rails(sounds like inline skates)speed not important. if Bob can’t slow his lope down to twenty mph, i’ll just have to catch up. maybe a fast walk for him at 15mph.

honestly, it’s all timing. if the z10 gets here first and it works here at the ranch for what i want, i’ll cancel the v10f and order another z10 the next day. if the v10f gets here first, i’m still getting the z10 and if it gets the job done, order another one. if i had more pavement the v10f would be a keeper for me, maybe someday soon. if that happens, tarriffs won’t bother me.

[Esash]

26 minutes ago, dmethvin said:

Well face it, an EUC is a luxury item at this point and nobody outside our forum is going to care if they get a tariff or not. So if there really are tariffs implemented it wouldn't surprise me to see EUCs in there.

If China does retaliatory tariffs it will hurt a lot of Americans, especially with agricultural products that we ship there. The tariffs will also make the steel used in US-built products more expensive, even if the steel comes from somewhere other than China. It may even cause scarcity on some products because not all raw material is the same and China may be the only supplier of some forms. The whole thing is a bit ironic because nearly all of the areas affected were pro-Trump and they will suffer the most. Let's just hope that everyone comes to their senses before a lot of people get hurt.

If the results of this trade war are more American jobs and higher wages because it's a workers' market, the "pain" of the lower 80% of Americans will be temporary and worthwhile.

Cheap Chinese goods as the norm was never worth it for the working and middle classes, only for the economic "elites" who convinced us it was good for us.

 

[Esash]

17 minutes ago, novazeus said:

for me at the ranch, 18s is my favorite, but i’m hoping the z10 will fit me better. the ks16s and the new v10f sb nice safe wheels for my pavement, and possibly future pavement. if the z10 wins out, i’ll try for redundacy there. so if i don’t sell any, that would put me at 9 wheels if u count batman s2 trying to kill or maim me. at least i’ve been getting a warning that it’s hurting. could be my imagination but today with what i’d call “snap back” as opposed to “tilt back” i coulda sworn i heard something like my mosquito zapper between the blurted chirp. it kept going but started out very slowly like regaining it’s composure. i’m always planning on falling like a thousand times a minute, analyzing every square inch of my road and shoulder looking to where i might bail. i didn’t like it, but it didn’t throw me, but i’m taking that and the wobbles as it trying to communicate with me. if it was a big ass cordless drill, i’d probably stop using that too, until i figure out what is wrong. i’m in a different environment where i hear exactly how hard that motor is working. same road over and over. side by side comparisons.that’s why i wanna taste them all, except gotway. i don’t know anything about them but even the people that love them question their quality and i’m too perfectionist in building stuff, poor build quality, whether it worked great or not, would bug the shit out of me. simple, rugged, low maintenance, safety, strong, tracks like it’s on rails(sounds like inline skates)speed not important. if Bob can’t slow his lope down to twenty mph, i’ll just have to catch up. maybe a fast walk for him at 15mph.

honestly, it’s all timing. if the z10 gets here first and it works here at the ranch for what i want, i’ll cancel the v10f and order another z10 the next day. if the v10f gets here first, i’m still getting the z10 and if it gets the job done, order another one. if i had more pavement the v10f would be a keeper for me, maybe someday soon. if that happens, tarriffs won’t bother me.

Sounds a little dicey. Might want to wait a couple months and see what kind of track record for build quality the Z10 gets after a lot of people have used the wheel for a while. It might be Gotway quality. Ninebot specializes in cheap little wheels that go 12 MPH, so assuming this big Z10 is built to top notch standards might be wishful thinking at this point, or even at the point where you'e had the wheel for a couple weeks.

Imagine having two Gotways of a model that turned out to be a lemon.

Your Ninebot S2 gave you problems today? Hmm.

 

[novazeus]

8 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

Your Ninebot S2 gave you problems today? Hmm.

yeah, i got a whole big long topic called wobbles about it. just out of the blue it started wobbling. figured out turning it around made it ok, not as smooth as either of my s1’s. then today riding it opposite direction, the pffft, waark, snapback. i was like wtf, huh? what do u wanna do now wheel?

i should get on tearing into this s2. if i don’t like the guts of segway products, say, at least as good as kingsong, i might just stick with my ks18s. nothing at all wrong with that wheel just takes a little more effort to turn it. like the difference between my new touareg and my traded in chevy one ton dooley.

[houseofjob]

22 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

If the results of this trade war are more American jobs and higher wages because it's a workers' market, the "pain" of the lower 80% of Americans will be temporary and worthwhile.

No one wins a trade war. History has proven this, just look up the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 and all its short-sighted ramifications. (a very good short podcast on this here: iOS / web)

 

22 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

Cheap Chinese goods as the norm was never worth it for the working and middle classes, only for the economic "elites" who convinced us it was good for us.

It's not just about the cheapness, it's about the Chinese government subsidies that allow them to sell at a loss and be covered by these subsidies, preventing fair competition, fair trade. 

[Goodman]

Doesn't make any sense to be blaming the Chinese for the trade difference when the powerful American companies created this problem to start with. Closing manufacturing and moving it offshore for short term gains only benefit the rich and affects everyone else. When you destroy the middle class the whole economy suffers, it's the middle class that fuels the economy.

It take's way too much money to rebuild you think the elitist are going to loss profit to see the general American population benefit from this let's stop kidding ourselves.

Until the government takes actions on these large corporations and stop the blaming game the USA will never get out of this situation. This is like an impossible task because who truly runs the country?

 

[novazeus]

29 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

Sounds a little dicey. Might want to wait a couple months and see what kind of track record for build quality the Z10 gets after a lot of people have used the wheel for a while. It might be Gotway quality. Ninebot specializes in cheap little wheels that go 12 MPH, so assuming this big Z10 is built to top notch standards might be wishful thinking at this point, or even at the point where you'e had the wheel for a couple weeks.

Imagine having two Gotways of a model that turned out to be a lemon.

Your Ninebot S2 gave you problems today? Hmm.

 

waiting isn’t an option for me.

i’m getting the z10 from @Jason McNeil so miami, although disgusting to go to, it’s not that far for me and Bob to drive down. if jason is smart he’ll meet me in ft lauderdale, more fun, less dangerous.

[eddiemoy]

57 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

If the results of this trade war are more American jobs and higher wages because it's a workers' market, the "pain" of the lower 80% of Americans will be temporary and worthwhile.

Cheap Chinese goods as the norm was never worth it for the working and middle classes, only for the economic "elites" who convinced us it was good for us.

 

I don’t think you understand the impact here.  Higher wages won’t help you if you cost of goods go up more.  It is the people who are at the bottom that get hurt.  Those who re in the “middle” class are fine.  

[Esash]

14 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I don’t think you understand the impact here.  Higher wages won’t help you if you cost of goods go up more.  It is the people who are at the bottom that get hurt.  Those who re in the “middle” class are fine.  

Higher wages help the (working) people at the bottom the most, because even if the price of goods go up, they have more money to get creative with how they meet their most essential needs. And the non-working poor will benefit immensely by finding low skill employment. You think unemployed low skill workers give a crap that the price of goods go up, if they have a job at long last?

China was a borderline 3rd world country until the US outsourced our lower middle class to China. Ask booming, surging world power China if they give a crap that the price of goods has gone up in China since the economy rocketed from 3rd world to larger than California and catching up to the whole US rapidly. 

This idea that wages and employment don't matter because prices for goods go up is propaganda message drilled into our brains by our oligarchs, who have homes in 3-5 different countries and private jets to get there.

 

[Esash]

Ask 1950s America if they cared that the price of goods was much higher than they were in the Great Depression, because wages and consumer demand were so high.

[Esash]

1 hour ago, Goodman said:

Doesn't make any sense to be blaming the Chinese for the trade difference when the powerful American companies created this problem to start with. Closing manufacturing and moving it offshore for short term gains only benefit the rich and affects everyone else. When you destroy the middle class the whole economy suffers, it's the middle class that fuels the economy.

It take's way too much money to rebuild you think the elitist are going to loss profit to see the general American population benefit from this let's stop kidding ourselves.

Until the government takes actions on these large corporations and stop the blaming game the USA will never get out of this situation. This is like an impossible task because who truly runs the country?

 

There's an emerging divide in our oligarchy between globalists/communists and another faction.

If the globalists/communists were still firmly in charge, the borders would still be wide open, there wouldn't be a trade war with China, and the H1B worker visa program wouldn't be on a new leash.

The opposing faction doesn't seem to be in a rush to turn the US into a developing world/3rd world wasteland.

That could change though. This new faction is led by that guy Mercer, who controls Trump and owns that Cambridge Analytica company that's been in the news re: Facebook data mining.

I hesitate to call these oligarchs patriots or nationalists though, for very good reasons I won't get into.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/27/the-reclusive-hedge-fund-tycoon-behind-the-trump-presidency

 

 

[Hatchet]

Mercer doesn't control Trump, that is idiocy. 

The Newyorker is a disgraced liberal rag that put the POTUS on the cover as a pig - and provides zero evidence of wrong doing. The same magazine that treated the criminal Obama like the bloody messiah, and viciously attacked any criticism of Obama as racist.

Cambridge Analytica did far less than Obama was praised for doing in 2012, he was a "genius" then. FB GAVE that data to Obama btw, they admitted that. But find out a firm gathered data to help candidate Trump? Well, it must be corrupt! Same old bullcrap double standard fake news crud.

1 hour ago, Goodman said:

Doesn't make any sense to be blaming the Chinese for the trade difference when the powerful American companies created this problem to start with. Closing manufacturing and moving it offshore for short term gains only benefit the rich and affects everyone else. When you destroy the middle class the whole economy suffers, it's the middle class that fuels the economy.

It take's way too much money to rebuild you think the elitist are going to loss profit to see the general American population benefit from this let's stop kidding ourselves.

Until the government takes actions on these large corporations and stop the blaming game the USA will never get out of this situation. This is like an impossible task because who truly runs the country?

 

You sound like a socialist/communist. No thanks comrade. 

[Esash]

14 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

Mercer doesn't control Trump, that is idiocy. 

The Newyorker is a disgraced liberal rag that put the POTUS on the cover as a pig - and provides zero evidence of wrong doing. The same magazine that treated the criminal Obama like the bloody messiah, and viciously attacked any criticism of Obama as racist.

Cambridge Analytica did far less than Obama was praised for doing in 2012, he was a "genius" then. FB GAVE that data to Obama btw, they admitted that. But find out a firm gathered data to help candidate Trump? Well, it must be corrupt! Same old bullcrap double standard fake new crud.

You sound like a socialist/communist. No thanks comrade. 

I hate the New Yorker too, they helped lie us into the Iraq War, for the benefit of a foreign country. If you're curious about Mercer, you can research him on other sources. Unfortunately, he is a devoted loyalist to the same foreign country we went to Iraq for, but now Mercer wants to drag the US into Iran. And the New Yorker magazine will join him in that lobbying/propaganda campaign.

Hopefully you're right and Mercer doesn't control Trump. We'll know by whether we end up at war with Iran, because Trump thinks the Iraq War was the dumbest thing ever and doesn't want another one.

 

[dbfrese]

3 hours ago, SuperSport said:

I would absolutely pay double for a wheel made in the USA. It would likely be better quality, and there would be legal recourse if things go wrong. 

Welcome back, SuperSport. Long time no see!

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

If the price of EUCs goes up, it's going to be a lot tougher convincing others to get into the sport.  People are surprised that my Ninebot One E+ cost $800 CAD.  I can imagine the reactions if I tell them my Tesla cost $1600!  People think I'm crazy enough to be riding on one wheel.  What are they going to say if it's over $2000?  

It's not going to be a hobby for the poor that's for sure.  I was hoping over time that these wheels dropped in price like how hoverboards have done over the years.  Now I see they are about $200 or less for the nicer UL ones.  That kind of pricing puts them in more people's hands, but if these EUCs increase in price I fear the growth of interest will dwindle even further.  Now imagine if one catches fire due to a live charging port, burns down a house, and kills a family.... That would effectively put the last nail in the coffin.

[Goodman]

1 hour ago, Hatchet said:

You sound like a socialist/communist. No thanks comrade. 

I didn't destroy the US economy in anyway or form just stating the facts, the USA needs to stop blaming everyone else in this world for it's own problems. Find the source of the problem and start fixing it there, this trade war is not going to fix anything in fact it has a far worse profound effect on the rest of the world.

You think putting a 25% tariff on imported goods from China is going to solve the problem and create more job? I highly doubt it will happen just as I highly doubt someone will start manufacturing EUC's in the states, why? Well lets see you might be willing to paying $4k for a USA made EUC but I highly doubt there will be many people who are in the same boat as you.

Wouldn't it be good to have a true socialist economy with no government intervention or a true communist system where everyone is an equal? It's a dream but the DNA in our bodies will ensure that this will never happen it's called human greed we never stop wanting more and we never want to be equals.

Did the Chinese government force the US manufacturing to close up and move to China? Does the Chinese government set profit margins on things that are US owned like Apple? I believe but I could be wrong it costs around USD $300 to make the new IPhone X which is produced in China and sold for USD $999. Lets see that's close to $700 in profit, if the phone was produced in the USA it might double the cost but it would mean more jobs but less profit but this would be great for the county. I stated clearly corporate greed destroyed the US manufacturing which killed off the middle class which is so important and keeps the economy healthy.

Don't get me wrong I am not defending the Chinese in anyway, I am from Australia and we have huge problems here also. We are selling off prime agriculture land and sea ports and power station to the Chinese which I am completely against.

But what worries me more is how this trade war between the 2 largest economies of the world will impact us all as in the rest of the world.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

All this worry might be for naught if the tariff plan gets shot down or diluted anyways so there's no use in over-thinking things at this point.  It's funny how we love buying cheap goods from a communist country, but then these tariff plans are needed to try to help protect the local democratic market.  It's kind of like a love / hate relationship, isn't it?  It's difficult to have both cheap and local when competing against foreign markets.

I just hope for those with skin in the game that these EUCs might be granted some sort of exemption, or maybe if parts were assembled in the US, maybe they would allow the parts to be sourced tariff-free?  It will be interesting to see where Trump ends up steering everybody.

Politics, guns, and religion are always hot button topics.  I hope we are all mature and civil enough to discuss them peacefully, but we can't, it may be best not to.    Let's show the mods we're all respectful of each other's opinions.