Jason McNeil Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, beast@tanagra said: Well heck, then this is something I'll definitely do. With the deposit being refundable, I guess I'm not risking anything but extra delay. Do I specify 10 or 10F once we have official specs? Side note, do we know anyone who wants to rent me a disused clunker wheel to learn on while I keep on waitin'? @Ombre might be able to coordinate something from Tucson, AZ. 5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Sure wish we could see some real-world riding videos. Maybe by summer we can get some objective stats and experiences about this wheel. You're not actually saying that it outperforms the Tesla right? Just that it'll sell better than the Tesla? What's the realistic range, or is that still a secret? Q1: I'm sure the IM SD team is going to make a special visit to LA for the purpose of offering a trial in person soon after the release date. Q2: Correct. Q3: the earlier leaked specs (not from me ) is that that battery pack is around 960, so you could expect Tesla sort of range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrd777 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: You're not actually saying that it outperforms the Tesla right? Just that it'll sell better than the Tesla? @Marty Backe is on it here, this is the question. Somehow I doubt this wheel of mystery outperforms the Tesla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: The Motor is exaspected to have 1200Watt-1500Watts max....while i would exspect more 1200Watt. Pretty hard to operate a more powerfull motor with 680wh.... The V10F is 80 cells, if the leaked specs are to believed, on the battery side, exactly the same class of 84v as the Tesla. No one outside from IM knows definitely what the motor spec is. 10 minutes ago, Hatchet said: " It handles better, feels more powerful, is the most comfortable Wheel that's ever been made.." This statement is qualified that the first two clauses are in reference to the KS16S; no side-by-side comparison riding of the Telsa for evaluating power (have modified it to read "than the KS16S"), but for the comfort factor it's certainly the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: But how does it feel more powerful than the Tesla wheel which has a 2000 watt motor? both 16" wheels... I totally disregarded this wheel and was sure I was going to get the 18L, but now I'm not so sure. I might end up getting this one. We have a group demo in NYC two weeks from now. I have a lot of respect for Jason, really, a very LOT...but come on, we are listening to a salesman, generating interest in a new wheel. The V10 is -at the end- a updated v8, trolley instead of inside it is now outside again like v5, and therefore has a bigger battery and a more powerfull motor! But thats it.....The v10 is 40kmh max...the Tesla is 50-55kmh max....never ever this wheel is in the Tesla region...yes, perhaps same as the 16s region, as its a year newer! Personally isee IM more in the region of 9b.....they are just to big of a company to make „real performance“ wheels that would interest G and Ks owners.... Who ever has ridden a V8 in comparison to a 16S/Tesla knows what i mean..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: statement is qualified that the first two clauses are in reference to the KS16S; no side-by-side comparison riding of the Telsa for evaluating power (have modified it to read "than the KS16S"), but for the comfort factor it's certainly the case. Aha, so it outperforms the one year old 16s ...but not the Tesla? Thats sounds a bit more realistic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beast@tanagra Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 minute ago, KingSong69 said: I have a lot of respect for Jason, really, a very LOT...but come on, we are listening to a salesman, generating interest in a new wheel. Well, since I have to wait anyway I have placed my refundable preorder deposit. I can eat popcorn and watch the debate while I wait and see what comes out at the unveiling. Not too much popcorn, though. Getting my weight down. It's one of those few things I can do to get ready without a wheel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: But thats it.....The v10 is 40kmh max...the Tesla is 50-55kmh max....never ever this wheel is in the Tesla region...yes, perhaps same as the 16s region, as its a year newer! Oh come on now, do you really think that a state-of-the-art V10F Wheel could not go into suicide mode, like the Tesla, to achieve these speeds, if the Company had no regard for safety? From what I can see, there's not a single part that's identical with the V8. You're way too experienced & intelligent to be making superficial comparisons between the V10F & V8. Take the 2.5" width Wheel for starters, does the 16S or Tesla have this? Is it possible that this wider rim mean's a few more mm for a thicker stator & therefore more power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: I have a lot of respect for Jason, really, a very LOT...but come on, we are listening to a salesman, generating interest in a new wheel.... In this respect I think you're totally wrong! From what I've seen, Jason has always been upfront and honest with his wheel opinions. He lets his products sell and speak for themselves. I have a feeling IM is listening and may have created something in between a Gotway and KingSong that combines safety/quality with a decent level of performance that may appeal to the majority of users. Adaptation and improvement are hallmarks of a successful company. InMotion will assimilate you. Resistance is futile. Regarding wheel choice, I would first get a good general purpose wheel that isn't too heavy and feels nice when riding first. You can always get a "sportswheel" later on if you decide you need more range and speed. Who wants to drive their Porsche or Tesla (the car maker) semi-truck to the supermarket every day? This V10 might be the perfect compromise for those on the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 hours ago, beast@tanagra said: You know, I had actually gone to bed pleased that I hadn't started a KS vs. Gotway flamewar with a thread that could have easily gone that way. It's impossible to make a thread here that doesn't veer offtopic anyways. So it's not like it's your fault. 2 hours ago, beast@tanagra said: I have a feeling there will be a bit of buyer's remorse no matter what I get, because I'll want to experience what I'm missing on the other side. That might be true: Get a 16S: "Why did I buy this slow thing with such shitty range??!!" Get an ACM2 1300Wh: "Why did I buy a Gotway, whyyyy??!!" 2 hours ago, beast@tanagra said: So here's where I stand: my gut feeling is still saying KS16S. In that case, why not a 16S? You can't really go wrong with either of them, and if it instinctively appeals more to you... do it. An advantage of the 16S, it might entice you to get a second wheel, like a nice 1600Wh msuper V3 (Tesla motor), sooner (for the range). The "Wait for the V10F" tip is also good. It will be officially revealed on the 10th of this month , if you can wait that long. 2 hours ago, beast@tanagra said: I think being minimally menacing to the locals is something I need to optimize for, and the KS does seem friendlier in that respect. (...) I'm selecting a helmet partly along this same criteria; I want to look both responsible and approachable. I used to think like this, but now I believe it's actually counterproductive. Buy the wheel you (and only you) want. People wil be scared of any wheel either way, if they are. Same for helmet. Realistically, a non-full-face-helmet is kind of pointless, as you'll always fall forwards and hit face first, should you fall on your own (or, worst case, sudden electronics failure). A "normal" free-face helmet might still help against cars etc, but it's definitely a half-measure. (Most important safety gear is by far wrist guards, then come kneed guards + helmet, then everything else, if any) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 41 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: @Ombre might be able to coordinate something from Tucson, AZ. Q1: I'm sure the IM SD team is going to make a special visit to LA for the purpose of offering a trial in person soon after the release date. Q2: Correct. Q3: the earlier leaked specs (not from me ) is that that battery pack is around 960, so you could expect Tesla sort of range. If that battery capacity is close to reality, that's impressive and very desirable. Exciting. I'll keep an eye out for any LA visits. Maybe I'll get a chance to try one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 40 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: I have a lot of respect for Jason, really, a very LOT...but come on, we are listening to a salesman, generating interest in a new wheel. 32 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: From what I can see, there's not a single part that's identical with the V8. You're way too experienced & intelligent to be making superficial comparisons between the V10F & V8. Take the 2.5" width Wheel for starters, does the 16S or Tesla have this? Is it possible that this wider rim mean's a few more mm for a thicker stator & therefore more power? @KingSong69 keep the discussion going with @Jason McNeil . The thicker stator is an interesting fact. Soon he will be sharing the real Top Secret stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles McLean Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 14 hours ago, beast@tanagra said: I'm also thinking the ~20 mph speed limit might be a feature rather than a bug for me, at least during the year or so it would take me to save up for wheel #2. I could probably be tempted to go faster sooner if it were just a few finger presses away, and that might not be a good thing. Hardware-enforced pre-commitment for the safety win? LOL ... I'm a fairly new rider (only been at it for 4 months). I'm 43 and weigh 205lbs. I got my Tesla 1020 Wh right after Christmas and had it up to 25 mph the day I took it out of the box. I have an MSuper V3S+ that I also own (the wheel buying bug also bit me) and I had it up to 35.9 mph the other day. I could NEVER go back to a slower wheel. What I like about the ACM2 is the fact that the speed is there if you want it, but if you don't want it and only feel like cruising around at 22 mph, you can do that ... your call ... you are not limited. My 14 year old daughter has the Kingsong 14d and within 2 days of riding it was already frustrated with the "please decelerate" warning at 15 mph and the inability to go faster than 18 mph. Now as a father, I consider the speed limit governor on the Kingsong 14d to be a FEATURE, but it just pisses my daughter off ... definitely NOT a feature for her .. LOL. :-) As for me, the choice between the ACM2 and KingSong 16S isn't a choice ... ACM2 all the way! Also, one more serious note about the ACM2 aside from the extra range available in the 1600 Wh battery is that I find myself really feeling secure on my Tesla and MSuper V3s+T (both of which have the same motor as the ACM2) because when I'm cruising around at 22 mph, I can still accelerate like a bat out of hell to avoid obstacles or clear obstructions if I need to and know I have plenty of top end range available to power out of just about any situation. To me, that is a feature. All that being said, the KingSong 16S is a great wheel and very safe and would be an excellent purchase, particularly from @Jason McNeil at Ewheels. You can't go wrong with either purchase. But, for me personally, I'd go with the ACM2. I'm with @Marty Backe on that one! Good luck with your purchase! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Just now, Rehab1 said: @KingSong69 keep the discussion going with @Jason McNeil . The thicker stator is an interesting fact. Soon he will be sharing the real Top Secret stuff! LOL...To make me more unpopular? :-) Is the stator in FACT thicker? Really? Measurements? How wide is it? Throwing another tire on a 16 inch wheel is not that of a problem, there are several KS16s 2,5 and ACM mods floating around! Just to make my standpoint clear: I doubt the IM v10f to be more powerfull than the Tesla (and a bit even as the 16S) just because of the fact that IM is a bigger company and is more responsible! KNowing some insights IM is facing some legal probs allready .....and they wont put out anything which is anything but safe! That and because of the „most comfortable wheel ever“ argument, which allways is subjective makes me question that! But hey, i love IM stays in the game and throws out a new wheel...we will see how that goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beast@tanagra Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Charles McLean said: LOL ... I'm a fairly new rider (only been at it for 4 months). I'm 43 and weigh 205lbs. I got my Tesla 1020 Wh right after Christmas and had it up to 25 mph the day I took it out of the box. I have an MSuper V3S+ that I also own (the wheel buying bug also bit me) and I had it up to 35.9 mph the other day. I could NEVER go back to a slower wheel. Haha. This is exactly what I'm worried about: I may lack the self-control to make what, from my safely dismounted vantage point, looks like the wiser selection on the risk/reward matrix. 7 minutes ago, Charles McLean said: Now as a father, I consider the speed limit governor on the Kingsong 14d to be a FEATURE, but it just pisses my daughter off ... definitely NOT a feature for her .. LOL. :-) Who will be the responsible father over us irresponsible fathers? I would say that my own dad is probably rolling over in his grave thinking about me doing EUC, but I seem to recall he took up rollerblading at my age and promptly proceeded to break his arm. Go away, zombie hypocrite dad! You can't tell me what to do! For now, waiting on April 10 Inmotion unveiling. If I have reservations about it, then I'm leaning towards switching the order back to the KS16S, though I'm still not ruling out the ACM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 @Charles McLean Just so that i have said that: Take yourself a bit back...from all you reports it sounds like you are on a extrem highspeed thrill! That works out as long ad you will NOT have a cutout! And believe me, its not just „respect the beep“! Even a small bump can faceplant you , even if you are „just“ on 70% speed. And when THAT happends i promise you will NOT have fun anymore riding a EUC for a very long time.....as then your trust is completly gone! And there will allways be the fear of a cutout! Thats own experience!! Protections wearing or not...falling on highspeed hurts...so please.... Just take yourself back a bit and take more care!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: LOL...To make me more unpopular? :-) That will never happen. 29 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: That and because of the „most comfortable wheel ever“ argument, which allways is subjective makes me question that! I truely believe @Jason McNeil feels that way and his seal of approval is honest. Yes subjectivity will always enter the fray. Now when the Z models come out and the commentary begins: “ This is absolutely the most comfortable, awesome performing wheel ever built on planet Earth” then you just might have a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: Even a small bump can faceplant you , even if you are „just“ on 70% speed. I can attest to that @Charles McLean. You will feel invincible as you gain more and more confidence in yourself and your wheel every time you ride. Unfortunately all of the sudden luck runs out and in an instant your lying injured on the ground. Yes I said luck! After riding for 2 years I thought I had paid my dues and passed every obstacle you could throw at me. I was mentally prepared for anything. Then my worst nightmare happened. It is physically impossible to prepare yourself for every worst case scenario when riding but you stand a much better chance if you dial down the extreme high speed thrill rides. Now the hard knocks: excessive high speed rides will not impress most members on this forum. We want to you remain healthly and injury free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 There often isn't enough attention paid to the loss of confidence one can experience after a crash. It's important to avoid crashes not just for the obvious reason of avoiding injury, but also because you can't always predict your own psychological response to the experience. I suspect a lot of beginners underestimate their response to a bad fall. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the used EUCs on the market are the result of exactly this phenomenon. I have all my eggs in the Z series basket. All of my hopes for the development of EUCs over the next couple years rest on that tire being everything I think it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 3 hours ago, KingSong69 said: @Charles McLean Just so that i have said that: Take yourself a bit back...from all you reports it sounds like you are on a extrem highspeed thrill! That works out as long ad you will NOT have a cutout! And believe me, its not just „respect the beep“! Even a small bump can faceplant you , even if you are „just“ on 70% speed. And when THAT happends i promise you will NOT have fun anymore riding a EUC for a very long time.....as then your trust is completly gone! And there will allways be the fear of a cutout! Thats own experience!! Protections wearing or not...falling on highspeed hurts...so please.... Just take yourself back a bit and take more care!!! I think because Charles had one fall on the Tesla at 34+mph and "didn't feel like much at all", I'm thinking Charles feels his luck will continue. @Charles McLean, your next fall and you probably will have another since you are a speed junkie, you won't be so lucky even in full armor. I'm actually waiting for your next report of a motor cutout. LOL Maybe take it up a notch and go with a sports bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Rehab1 said: I can attest to that @Charles McLean. You will feel invincible as you gain more and more confidence in yourself and your wheel every time you ride. Unfortunately all of the sudden luck runs out and in an instant your lying injured on the ground. Yes I said luck! After riding for 2 years I thought I had paid my dues and passed every obstacle you could throw at me. I was mentally prepared for anything. Then my worst nightmare happened. It is physically impossible to prepare yourself for every worst case scenario when riding but you stand a much better chance if you dial down the extreme high speed thrill rides. Now the hard knocks: excessive high speed rides will not impress most members on this forum. We want to you remain healthly and injury free. 3 hours ago, KingSong69 said: @Charles McLean Just so that i have said that: Take yourself a bit back...from all you reports it sounds like you are on a extrem highspeed thrill! That works out as long ad you will NOT have a cutout! And believe me, its not just „respect the beep“! Even a small bump can faceplant you , even if you are „just“ on 70% speed. And when THAT happends i promise you will NOT have fun anymore riding a EUC for a very long time.....as then your trust is completly gone! And there will allways be the fear of a cutout! Thats own experience!! Protections wearing or not...falling on highspeed hurts...so please.... Just take yourself back a bit and take more care!!! You guys are both Debbie Downer's today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 That second wheel looks like the best design. Not much battery, but well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Charles McLean said: LOL ... I'm a fairly new rider (only been at it for 4 months). I'm 43 and weigh 205lbs. I got my Tesla 1020 Wh right after Christmas and had it up to 25 mph the day I took it out of the box. I have an MSuper V3S+ that I also own (the wheel buying bug also bit me) and I had it up to 35.9 mph the other day. I could NEVER go back to a slower wheel. What I like about the ACM2 is the fact that the speed is there if you want it, but if you don't want it and only feel like cruising around at 22 mph, you can do that ... your call ... you are not limited. My 14 year old daughter has the Kingsong 14d and within 2 days of riding it was already frustrated with the "please decelerate" warning at 15 mph and the inability to go faster than 18 mph. Now as a father, I consider the speed limit governor on the Kingsong 14d to be a FEATURE, but it just pisses my daughter off ... definitely NOT a feature for her .. LOL. :-) As for me, the choice between the ACM2 and KingSong 16S isn't a choice ... ACM2 all the way! Also, one more serious note about the ACM2 aside from the extra range available in the 1600 Wh battery is that I find myself really feeling secure on my Tesla and MSuper V3s+T (both of which have the same motor as the ACM2) because when I'm cruising around at 22 mph, I can still accelerate like a bat out of hell to avoid obstacles or clear obstructions if I need to and know I have plenty of top end range available to power out of just about any situation. To me, that is a feature. All that being said, the KingSong 16S is a great wheel and very safe and would be an excellent purchase, particularly from @Jason McNeil at Ewheels. You can't go wrong with either purchase. But, for me personally, I'd go with the ACM2. I'm with @Marty Backe on that one! Good luck with your purchase! Finally, someone speaking some sanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, steve454 said: That second wheel looks like the best design. Not much battery, but well made. Good eye. The 18S is indeed the best wheel in the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Henley Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, mezzanine said: Good eye. The 18S is indeed the best wheel in the photo. No no no , you both have this all wrong !!! The msuper is by far superior in the styling department to all the wheels in this photograph! From the striking lines to that beautifully exposed 18” tire . It’s a true work of functional art ! But alas, the true beauty queen in the world of EUC is the rockwheel gt16! Now that’s a truly stunning design . If only it’s insides were as flawless as it’s facade . 23 minutes ago, steve454 said: That second wheel looks like the best design. Not much battery, but well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beast@tanagra Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Radical (stupid?) thought: What if I made an MTen3 my first wheel and tried to learn on that? Yes, I hear it's "not a beginner's wheel", but... I see a very good chance of it making it into my stable (as an ultraportable errand/trick wheel), and I can see possible advantages to taking a few months to work just on the sorts of things you can practice on it at very low, safe speeds. Assuming that -- with patience and padding -- I could make a go of it, do you think this would do more harm or good to my EUC skills in general? In this scenario, I could wait until fall or winter to let the new wheels be released and objectively evaluated, potentially moving up to an 18" as my second wheel. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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