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ACM2 1300 Wh vs. KS16s for newbie?


beast@tanagra
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I've been waiting for the KS16s to get off backorder from eWheels, but I've been doing a lot of research (love this forum) while I wait, and I see a lot of enthusiasm for the new ACM.

This will be my first wheel. I'm in my early 40s, with a riding weight of ~165, looking for an all-purpose wheel for riding mostly in the suburban flatlands of Arizona on mixed terrain. I'm sure either wheel would be fine for me, but on paper even the 1300 Wh ACM is better spec'd, and at the same price. Safety is pretty important to me -- and my wife, and my kids -- so the higher speed is not a big draw, and I'll be taking my self-training slow... but I don't know how to evaluate the value of a bigger motor in flatland.

I don't think I care too much about the KS bluetooth speaker, and at this point don't really know how to feel about a trolly handle, so I think I need to decide on other criteria. Does Gotway have its act together yet as far as build quality? Would I (with low-end mechanical skill) find the ACM2 too difficult to maintain? Or more difficult to learn on? Or more likely to break in newbie spills? I've never seen an EUC outside of youtube, so I don't know who else to ask. Thanks!

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10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Welcome :cheers:

I learned on an ACM. About your weight, late 50's :D. So maybe I'm biased, but I think if you're confident that you'll have a blast on these wheels, buy the best first. It'll last you a long time and you won't have the immediate urge to upgrade because you already have the best.

I padded mine up for the first month or so, and it survived all of my falls just fine.

The ACM2 shuts down much quicker than the earlier ACM's when it falls over, so it'll take much abuse than my ACM when I was learning.

Check out some of my maintenance videos. If nothing you see scares you, then you should be good.

I don't care what wheel you buy, you can have issues that require you opening it (I'm opening my fairly new KS14S today to replace a failed control board).

Buy the ACM2. In my considered opinion it's the best 16-inch wheel being made.

Good luck with your decision,

Marty

Yeah, I have every reason to think it could become an obsession, and you're partly to blame :).  It's just annoying that I don't know which aspects of it I'll be most into so I can shop accordingly -- hence, my desire for an all-purpose wheel at first. Your video from yesterday convinced me that the new ACM is pretty nimble, despite its cosmetically chunky exterior. Can you comment on how a wider stance and lower shin grip affects low-speed handling?

Speaking of your recent video, can you comment more on the trolley handle I see you installed on your ACM2? Was that the kit that eWheels talks about, or something you picked up on eBay like the one in your video about modding your MTen3? How involved was the installation?

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5 minutes ago, beast@tanagra said:

 

Yeah, I have every reason to think it could become an obsession, and you're partly to blame :).  It's just annoying that I don't know which aspects of it I'll be most into so I can shop accordingly -- hence, my desire for an all-purpose wheel at first. Your video from yesterday convinced me that the new ACM is pretty nimble, despite its cosmetically chunky exterior. Can you comment on how a wider stance and lower shin grip affects low-speed handling?

Speaking of your recent video, can you comment more on the trolley handle I see you installed on your ACM2? Was that the kit that eWheels talks about, or something you picked up on eBay like the one in your video about modding your MTen3? How involved was the installation?

Sorry for feeding your potential obsession :whistling:

The wide and low stance of the ACM plus the heaviness make for a very stable wheel that is easy to turn. It really is my favorite all-around wheel.

The trolley handle is from Ewheels. Easy to install assuming that you're ok with a drill. You could talk to @Jason McNeil about maybe having the holes pre-drilled - he may offer that service, I don't know.

The trolley handle is absolutely worth having, but don't install it until you are past the learning stage. Being external it can get damaged easily.

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Welcome :cheers:

I learned on an ACM. About your weight, late 50's :D. So maybe I'm biased, but I think if you're confident that you'll have a blast on these wheels, buy the best first. It'll last you a long time and you won't have the immediate urge to upgrade because you already have the best.

I padded mine up for the first month or so, and it survived all of my falls just fine.

The ACM2 shuts down much quicker than the earlier ACM's when it falls over, so it'll take much abuse than my ACM when I was learning.

Check out some of my maintenance videos. If nothing you see scares you, then you should be good.

I don't care what wheel you buy, you can have issues that require you opening it (I'm opening my fairly new KS14S today to replace a failed control board).

Buy the ACM2. In my considered opinion it's the best 16-inch wheel being made.

Good luck with your decision,

Marty

Did you pop the control board? If so, how?

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45 minutes ago, GoinPostal said:

Did you pop the control board? If so, how?

I posted a separate thread in the KingSong section. The board tilts-back all the time, like it's in an overcharge condition (it's not). It worked the night before, but not the next day.

KingSong wheels never fail, right?

Edited by Marty Backe
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24 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

KingSong wheels never fail, right?

I would love to say, that they at least dont fail while riding...but with the other thread at the moment, thats not the right time :-)

Edited by KingSong69
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2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

I would love to say, that they at least dont fail while riding...but with the other thread at the moment, thats not the right time :-)

The bigger picture is correct - that KingSong wheels are more reliable and less likely to fail when riding and not riding. But I like to remind people that KingSong wheels are still fallible.

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19 minutes ago, steve454 said:

If you don't care about bluetooth speakers, trolley handle, or high speed, but want a safe wheel, might I suggest the ninebot one E+?

That's a fair question. My answer is that I think I'm at least slightly more adventurous than that -- enough so that when I weighed the arguments for and against starting with a cheap(er) starter wheel that I might quickly outgrow vs. a higher end wheel that I might break, the latter won out pretty easily.

Range is probably the big wildcard for me now because I honestly don't know how much I care about it. When I first realized I wanted to get into EUC, I didn't appreciate how powerful, versatile, and long range they could be. I had actually been looking at maybe trying a OneWheel+ and only saw EUC as a quirky but-nearly-equivalent alternative. Ha! It hadn't even occurred to me that someone could -- or would event want to -- travel 40+ miles on a charge. I'm wondering, though, if that's what a lot of riders thought when they bought their first wheel.

I watch Marty's videos and it's not too hard to see me in them. Would *he* have seen himself in them before he started? (Care to weigh in, Marty? Did you always know you were a rangeaholic?)

 

Edited by beast@tanagra
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2 hours ago, steve454 said:

nnn

 

11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I have no idea what that means :confused1: I even Googled it in case this is some new lingo that I'm not attuned to 

 

Don't mind @steve454 - he was just having a minor stroke.

It looks like he's stopped drooling now, so everything should be okay...  :huh:

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Great. :/  So the multi-wheel bug

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

My first EUC was the 680wh ACM. At the time there were a lot less videos of people riding them and long range wheels pretty much didn't exist. Less than 2-months into riding I was starting to be disappointed when I had to start my return home when there was still miles of trails in front of me. So I sold it and bought the 840wh ACM just to get another 8+ miles. Within a few months the 1300wh ACM was being sold. Guess what I did? And I've had some epic 60+ mile rides on my Monster. These EUCs can be very addicting and you just want to ride and ride and ride.

There are many people on this forum which enjoy shorter rides, but there are also many who enjoy 40+ mile rides, and I'm one of them.

Great.... so the serial wheel-buyer bug is probably gonna bite me, too. <_<   I can already see an Mten3 or something like that in my 2019 crystal ball...   My fun budget might never catch up to Monster-class, though, so perhaps a longer-range mid-size as my main wheel really is the way to go.

It almost sounds absurd to ask, "If you could only have two wheels..."  Has anyone ever stopped at exactly two wheels? Heh!

You've given me a lot to think about, Marty. Thanks!

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I think you should go with the KS16S, I learned on a Ninebot C+ and after 3 weeks bought a ks16.  it was night and day, made my learning even easier and quickly progressed and bought the KS18S because I wanted to ride longer.  After riding about an hour, your feet go numb.  Having a seat is amazing.  I then bought the Msuper v3+ after all the glowing reviews.  When I got the Msuper I was already a advanced rider, but I absolutely hate the wide stance of the Msuper.  The reason I go into this is that you may have the same feeling about it.  I think those people who buy the Msuper or the ACM don’t know how bad the wheel feels in comparison to the KS.  

The KS16 for me is still my go to wheel for short rides to the store or around town.  However, when I go on longer group rides longer than an hour, I take the KS18S because of the seat.  If speed isn’t an issue for you and 35kmph is more than enough, get the KS16S.  You will love the wheel and it will make learning easier.  My Msuper is still collecting dust.  Occasionally I take it out to remind me how much I hate it and how they can get the design of a wheel so bad.   It is so top heavy.  The KS18S is so much taller but it has none of the top heaviness nor the wide awkward wide stance.  It can’t be good for your knees.  

Anyway, that is my two cents.  

Edited by eddiemoy
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44 minutes ago, beast@tanagra said:

Great. :/  So the multi-wheel bug

Great.... so the serial wheel-buyer bug is probably gonna bite me, too. <_<   I can already see an Mten3 or something like that in my 2019 crystal ball...   My fun budget might never catch up to Monster-class, though, so perhaps a longer-range mid-size as my main wheel really is the way to go.

It almost sounds absurd to ask, "If you could only have two wheels..."  Has anyone ever stopped at exactly two wheels? Heh!

You've given me a lot to think about, Marty. Thanks!

 

I'm going to be tested when the Z10 is finally released, but I'm determined to try to stay to only two wheels.  I'd love to have more if I had the budget. 

It actually helped me quite a bit to determine before I bought my first wheel that I would probably buy a second.  I bought a cheaper first wheel because I knew I would buy a better, more expensive wheel later on.    

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Darmok and Jalad on the ocean!  I don't think you can go wrong with either one, but the KS16S might be good to get for a first wheel just to get into the game.  That handy trolley handle is a nice built in feature to have plus you've got speakers and some fun lights all in a pretty nice, all around package. 

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6 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Darmok and Jalad on the ocean!  I don't think you can go wrong with either one, but the KS16S might be good to get for a first wheel just to get into the game.  That handy trolley handle is a nice built in feature to have plus you've got speakers and some fun lights all in a pretty nice, all around package. 

Wondering if anyone other than Warp'd will get that reference and even Warp'd I'd be impressed.  I, of course, got it right way.  Provided it is what I think it is.  I'll stop now.  

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I ride a monster and would not even consider buying a wheel under 18 inches for the fact that the larger wheels absorb a lot of the road hazards that are out there. I went from a first wheel of a ninebot one e+ and after riding the larger wheel the ninebot feels sloppy instead of glued to the road . I think the new z one will be a winner as it has the same good quality build as the one e but with the larger tire. Just something to think about. 

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16 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

Wondering if anyone other than Warp'd will get that reference and even Warp'd I'd be impressed.  I, of course, got it right way.  Provided it is what I think it is.  I'll stop now.  

Heh, it's definitely what you think :) Can't say I've been a huge Trek fan since the Next Gen days, but those were good days.

24 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Darmok and Jalad on the ocean!  I don't think you can go wrong with either one, but the KS16S might be good to get for a first wheel just to get into the game.  That handy trolley handle is a nice built in feature to have plus you've got speakers and some fun lights all in a pretty nice, all around package. 

I think I need to commit to holding off on a decision until the KS16S is off backorder. I worry that the wait could be clouding my judgment a little bit <_< I mean, sure, the greater Phoenix area is swiftly returning to its natural average temperature of five degrees cooler than the surface of the sun, but in the grand scheme of things a week or two delay ought not to be worth ending up with buyer's remorse.  Digging around the threads and elsewhere, there do seem to be a number of people saying that there's something special about the 16S that the ACM just doesn't have, perhaps even in its newest iteration -- except for range and speed, where ACM wins hands down. It's very hard to find anyone who ever regretted the 16S, especially as a first wheel, but it's not quite as hard to find ACM regretters.

I'm also thinking the ~20 mph speed limit might be a feature rather than a bug for me, at least during the year or so it would take me to save up for wheel #2. I could probably be tempted to go faster sooner if it were just a few finger presses away, and that might not be a good thing. Hardware-enforced pre-commitment for the safety win?

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

It actually helped me quite a bit to determine before I bought my first wheel that I would probably buy a second.

It does help me not lose sleep over making the "wrong" choice. I'm sure both these wheels are good, and owning either will help me figure out what to optimize for on the next one.

3 minutes ago, Steve Persona said:

I ride a monster and would not even consider buying a wheel under 18 inches for the fact that the larger wheels absorb a lot of the road hazards that are out there. I went from a first wheel of a ninebot one e+ and after riding the larger wheel the ninebot feels sloppy instead of glued to the road . I think the new z one will be a winner as it has the same good quality build as the one e but with the larger tire. Just something to think about. 

Waiting to figure out whether I'm drawn to range before purchasing something bigger does give me the added advantage of seeing how the new wheels turn out. It sounds like a lot of people are holding off on new big purchases for the moment. 

Thank you all for your advice!

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