tiltback or no tiltback?

[Shad0z]

so my gotwy tesla alerts me with beeping around 50 kph when im at 80 percent of its max output (changes with battery)

so im thinking... should i enable tiltback at 48 kph or let it be?  sometimes i dont hear the sound but it still has enough headroom to not cut out..

but still riding at over the last warning is risky

but i also never really hear it that often

 

 so what are some of the pros and cons of tiltback? 

give me a reason to choose either

[NECway]

At full battery the tiltback at 48 km/h is safe, but how safe is it at 30% battery?

If you could set the tiltback based on the battery charge and not speed then it would be safe. You could always determine what is the max speed at 30% and set the tiltback couple of km below that.

[Shad0z]

Just now, NECway said:

At full battery the tiltback at 48 km/h is safe, but how safe is it at 30% battery?

the last alarm for 80% of max output moves down according to battery percentage and the tiltback stays at 48 kph so i wont be able to hit 48 at every percentage

[NECway]

2 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

the last alarm for 80% of max output moves down according to battery percentage and the tiltback stays at 48 kph so i wont be able to hit 48 at every percentage

You just answered why setting tilback at 48km/h is not a good idea :-)

[Shad0z]

15 minutes ago, NECway said:

You just answered why setting tilback at 48km/h is not a good idea :-)

why should it be a bad idea? the tiltback would alert me while i have high battery percent if im going way too fast

and at lower percent i just listen for the beeping? 

[NECway]

15 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

why should it be a bad idea? the tiltback would alert me while i have high battery percent if im going way too fast

and at lower percent i just listen for the beeping? 

Tiltack is bad if you run out of power when the tiltback is being performed. Not enough power means faceplant.

It takes extra power to perform a tiltback. So titlback at 80% is fine but not at 100%, I don't know at what power level it is safe.

[eddiemoy]

I wonder why it is ok to set tiltback at 50kmph on King Song, but unsafe to so so on GW...  Does that mean there is a larger buffer on the King Song making it safer?

[Shad0z]

1 minute ago, NECway said:

Tiltack is bad if you run out of power when the tiltback is being performed. Not enough power means faceplant.

It takes extra power to perform a tiltback. So titlback at 80% is fine but not at 100%, I don't know at what power level it is safe.

charles mc"lean"  tried to push the tesla to full power and ended somwhere around 56kph and it cutoff he is 90 kg 

so i think tiltback at around 48 would give a little slight notice that its time to slow down

[Shad0z]

Just now, eddiemoy said:

I wonder why it is ok to set tiltback at 50kmph on King Song, but unsafe to so so on GW...  Does that mean there is a larger buffer on the King Song making it safer?

its called magic... it usually just works

one fall on a gotway = all gotways are bad

one cut off on kingsong = i drove into a car

magic

kingsong = safety

opinions dont change

= kingsong = magic 

 

to be honest kingsong are really pushing the 50 kph speedlimit with a 2000W motor and 1000wh battery  slightest bump would result in a cutoff

and as tiltback would probably alos cause a cutoff, so im pretty sure the max speed will be at 45kph 

 

[NECway]

4 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

charles mc"lean"  tried to push the tesla to full power and ended somwhere around 56kph and it cutoff he is 90 kg 

so i think tiltback at around 48 would give a little slight notice that its time to slow down

Max speed is depended on so many factors, let me try to make a partial list:

Weight of the rider

battery charge level

tire presure

road surface

wind direction and speed

height and width of the rider/ what the rider is wearing

that is all that I can think of right now.

[Shad0z]

Just now, NECway said:

Max speed is depended on so many factors, let me try to make a partial list:

Weight of the rider

battery charge level

tire presure

road surface

wind direction and speed

height and width of the rider/ what the rider is wearing

that is all that I can think of right now.

exactly... so safely its just a good idea to keep some good safety headroom

[Brian Morris]

 on a tesla enable the last alarm only and disable tiltback.  that alarm goes off you are on your own to slow down(manual tilt back).  Auto tilt back runs the risk of feeding you a faceplant sandwich because it is not voltage-dependent like the alarm is.  Been running mine like this since day 1 and no issues.

 

[US69]

4 hours ago, Shad0z said:

to be honest kingsong are really pushing the 50 kph speedlimit with a 2000W motor and 1000wh battery  slightest bump would result in a cutoff

Like on the other thread...do you have ANY clue on what you are telling here?

 

The Ks18S even only has 1500Watt/67volt motor and is sold with a 840wh battery. The  „lift off spin“ speed is btw about 65kmh....same as a Tesla/msuper/Acm...but .....it is maxed to 50kmh.

So what they do..with limiting the speed to a specific one, is just keeping you INSIDE the safe limits.

You dont have to like tiltback, i also dont. 

But at least they try to prevent you from going to a speed that the wheel can not provide anymore!

Thats just a totally different approach/design as GW...which let you go as fast as you want. Oooh, you have not heared last alarm?

Bad luck then.....

[Shad0z]

14 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Like on the other thread...do you have ANY clue on what you are telling here?

 

The Ks18S even only has 1500Watt/67volt motor and is sold with a 840wh battery. The  „lift off spin“ speed is btw about 65kmh....same as a Tesla/msuper/Acm...but .....it is maxed to 50kmh.

So what they do..with limiting the speed to a specific one, is just keeping you INSIDE the safe limits.

You dont have to like tiltback, i also dont. 

But at least they try to prevent you from going to a speed that the wheel can not provide anymore!

Thats just a totally different approach/design as GW...which let you go as fast as you want. Oooh, you have not heared last alarm?

Bad luck then....

you can easily turn on tiltback? 

and lift off spin is totally different max speed than if it was on the ground with weight on top of it to push

but i like to control where im going instead of being forced if i just hit the border for a slight second

and the difference between the wheels power if its 82 volt or 67volt or 1500W vs 2000W 

is not really changing the speed that the wheel can drive when you let it rotate freely

 

the difference comes in at the power when you go up a hill how much strenght it has and pulling power. And other factors like wind and weight change the cut off speed. 

 

now the real question is. Are you ranting endlessly or discussing?

i would say "do you even know what youre talking about"

pretty much sums it up... Endless ranting...

 

 

[US69]

@Shad0z

I will try to explain it....

GW and KS have different design philosophies...you may like them or not..

GW goes after: here is our wheel, drive as fast if you want..

KS goes after: here is our wheel, it will not let you drive faster than it can

To the tiltback question:

Setting the tiltback on a Tesla is no problem...as THIS wheel can handle a tiltback at 48kmh.

The problem of setting a tiltback so high was on early Acm/msuper versions.

You were able to set the tiltback at 48kmh...but the wheel was barely able to do 50...

so the tiltback COULD make this last powersurge...at the end of what the wheel can...and lead to a cut out! (Some drivers experienced that)

On nowadays Teslas/Acm tiltback at 48kmh is no prob anymore, as they have a much higher speed capability!

Now KS:

They design there wheels that they check what the wheel is able to, and then set the last tiltback, what they also call max speed, to a set value. For example 50kmh for the 18S...Thing is, like for example Tesla, the wheel also CAN run faster....but they will never let you...

On low battery, they even go down with this max speed/tiltback, because they ALWAYS want you to be in the „safe“ envelope of what the wheel/battery is capable.

 

So thats why your: Probably the wheel will not be able to do 50....only 45.....argument is just guessing and has nothing todo with reality!

When KS announces a max speed, its just set into stones....(and protected to go faster on every battery level)

 

Nowadays wheels are btw. able todo 50kmh...even when its „just“ 1000wh....best example is: GW Tesla :-)

 

[Shad0z]

6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

 

KS goes after: here is our wheel, it will not let you drive faster than it can 

 

the case with the ks18 yes it is true

but the most other kingsong wheels have thw tiltback way under max capcity. While i think the ks18 finds a good balance.

but for now im team gotway

i will wait and see a few years when i need a new wheell and see how it goes there.. Now i have a tesla.. And i will get the best out of it 

[Master Blaster]

27 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

the case with the ks18 yes it is true

but the most other kingsong wheels have thw tiltback way under max capcity. While i think the ks18 finds a good balance.

but for now im team gotway

i will wait and see a few years when i need a new wheell and see how it goes there.. Now i have a tesla.. And i will get the best out of it 

So how’s that working out for you so far........1,000km and a blown mosfet on your new Tesla......... 

[Luizpeed]

I've had my monster for 11 months. Since I took it, I turned off all the alarms and tilt back and used it as a sport set. I read this forum only today.
My life depends on the motherboard.
Is it the case that I'm at 50 km / h and Monster simply hangs up?

[Shad0z]

21 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

So how’s that working out for you so far........1,000km and a blown mosfet on your new Tesla......... 

bathtub curve...

1 hour ago, Luizpeed said:

I've had my monster for 11 months. Since I took it, I turned off all the alarms and tilt back and used it as a sport set. I read this forum only today.
My life depends on the motherboard.
Is it the case that I'm at 50 km / h and Monster simply hangs up?

enable last alarm and stay under it and you will minimise risk but if you turn all alarms off and just go fuull speed... ehh not so good

[kasenutty]

You pretended to be interested in tiltback just so you could fight with people about how it’s the wrongest thing ever.

[Shad0z]

4 minutes ago, kasenutty said:

You pretended to be interested in tiltback just so you could fight with people about how it’s the wrongest thing ever.

Nahh i was wondering wether to enable tiltback or not but as i can see its best idea to just not 

i got some usefull input 

[brjohnso]

The delay between an alarm and a crash can be breathtakingly small. I think that the advantage of tilt back may be that deceleration can begin automatically as a result of pushing the rider back without having to wait for the rider to process the alarm, decide to slow down, and then lean back. That's the theory at least. If you do rely on only the alarm, you need to leave enough headroom for you to recognize the alarm, and take action to decelerate before the wheel overloads and cuts out.

 

[Shad0z]

1 minute ago, brjohnso said:

The delay between an alarm and a crash can be breathtakingly small. I think that the advantage of tilt back may be that deceleration can begin automatically as a result of pushing the rider back without having to wait for the rider to process the alarm, decide to slow down, and then lean back. That's the theory at least. If you do rely on only the alarm, you need to leave enough headroom for you to recognize the alarm, and take action to decelerate before the wheel overloads and cuts out.

 

my tesla still has about 7 kph headroom when the alarm sounds

[Smoother]

On 3/9/2018 at 4:23 PM, Shad0z said:

my tesla still has about 7 kph headroom when the alarm sounds

it has no headroom at all if wind noise prevents you from hearing it.  Also, once the alarm starts to sound, it will continue to sound as you drive at higher speeds.  So if you start to hear it, but you're not sure you heard it start, you don't know where you are in that 7kph range.  Also, even if you did hear it start, and continue to ride with the alarm going, you have no idea where on that 7kph range you are, as the difference between (let's say) 47kph and 54kph are hard to interpret.  So you may think you are doing 47kph (beep start threshold) buy you may have crept up to 54kph (same alarm sound) due to changes in road inclination, or reduced headwind, etc, and be a small bump away from a face plant. What @brjohnso was saying is tilt back (like it or hate it) IF programmed well,  will prevent you riding up to motor cut out, and or initiate some sort of speed reduction before a crash.  Hard to say if that would be enough to reduce injuries, but adding speed certainly doesn't.

[Shad0z]

7 minutes ago, Smoother said:

it has no headroom at all if wind noise prevents you from hearing it.  Also, once the alarm starts to sound, it will continue to sound as you drive at higher speeds.  So if you start to hear it, but you're not sure you heard it start, you don't know where you are in that 7kph range.  Also, even if you did hear it start, and continue to ride with the alarm going, you have no idea where on that 7kph range you are, as the difference between (let's say) 47kph and 54kph are hard to interpret.  So you may think you are doing 47kph (beep start threshold) buy you may have crept up to 54kph (same alarm sound) due to changes in road inclination, or reduced headwind, etc, and be a small bump away from a face plant. What @brjohnso was saying is tilt back (like it or hate it) IF programmed well,  will prevent you riding up to motor cut out, and or initiate some sort of speed reduction before a crash.  Hard to say if that would be enough to reduce injuries, but adding speed certainly doesn't.

im thinking sbout it