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ks 16s swing issue


john4
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Hi everyone,

I just got my brand new 16S about 5 days ago. Currently I'm able to ride on it but not very smooth. The issue that bothers me is that while riding on it, the wheel sometimes swing left and right. The feeling is similar to riding a bicycle and the front wheel swing left and right itself. It's not very bad and it doesn't happen very often but it makes me less confident, especially at higher speed. 

Searching the forum I didn't find anyone with similar issue so I decided to open a topic for it. I really like the wheel so far and hope it can be fixed. Any idea is greatly appreciated.

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2 hours ago, john4 said:

Hi everyone,

Welcome to the forum!

Quote

I just got my brand new 16S about 5 days ago. Currently I'm able to ride on it but not very smooth. The issue that bothers me is that while riding on it, the wheel sometimes swing left and right. The feeling is similar to riding a bicycle and the front wheel swing left and right itself. It's not very bad and it doesn't happen very often but it makes me less confident, especially at higher speed. 

Searching the forum I didn't find anyone with similar issue so I decided to open a topic for it. I really like the wheel so far and hope it can be fixed. Any idea is greatly appreciated.

I can't remember experiencing myself or reading about such an issue?

The "standard" points regarding "instabilities" are normally:

- tyre pressure: the wheels arrive with an almoust flat tire and are in dire need of air!

- loose axle/pedal mount: if so, you should have noticed this already as own issue?

- bent/very unbalanced rim: here was shortly a youtube instruction posted on how to balance a EUC tyre

- "wrong" foot position/road "unevenness" standing too much on the ?forward/backward? side of the pedal can more easily lead to a "wobbling" EUC (1). Especially in the beginning. Also can happen if one drives over some "uneven/bumpy/not flat" surfaces.

Can lead to serious accidents at high speeds if one does not see some hole/etc: 

Edit: (1) As the wheel is a gyroscope by precession each force on just one of the pedals makes it turn to the left/right side. So if one puts the weight suddenly on one pedal side (by some "unbalancing", bumps or to compensate road unevenness) the wheel turns to this side. Also pushing down one pedal makes the other pedal coming up. To balance one puts the weight on this other pedal and the wheel swings back in this other direction. With a little bit of overreaction, ?system momentum? the EUC is wobbling/swinging dangerously!

Was also a nice demonstration video here shortly (did not find it for linking... ;( )

Edited by Chriull
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3 hours ago, john4 said:

Hi everyone,

I just got my brand new 16S about 5 days ago. Currently I'm able to ride on it but not very smooth. The issue that bothers me is that while riding on it, the wheel sometimes swing left and right. The feeling is similar to riding a bicycle and the front wheel swing left and right itself. It's not very bad and it doesn't happen very often but it makes me less confident, especially at higher speed. 

Searching the forum I didn't find anyone with similar issue so I decided to open a topic for it. I really like the wheel so far and hope it can be fixed. Any idea is greatly appreciated.

I would advise to check the air in the tire!

I know this feeling from the KS16 when there is not enough air in it....then it might kind of fall to one direction...

If its not the air....i would also say its just to less practise, take some time :-)

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2 hours ago, john4 said:

Hi everyone,

I just got my brand new 16S about 5 days ago. Currently I'm able to ride on it but not very smooth. The issue that bothers me is that while riding on it, the wheel sometimes swing left and right. The feeling is similar to riding a bicycle and the front wheel swing left and right itself. It's not very bad and it doesn't happen very often but it makes me less confident, especially at higher speed. 

Searching the forum I didn't find anyone with similar issue so I decided to open a topic for it. I really like the wheel so far and hope it can be fixed. Any idea is greatly appreciated.

I’d have to agree with the others , I don’t believe there to be any type of mechanical issues that would cause the instability that you’re experiencing.

I’m assuming by your post that this is your first wheel and you’ve only been at it for 5 days? In my experience riding an EUC involves using muscle groups in a manner that no other activity seems to require. It takes awhile to  gain muscle memeory and strength in these areas. My best advice would be to just stick with it . If high speeds make you feel uncomfortable then ride slower for now until you gain better control . One thing that really helped me was spending a lot of time riding dirt trails and on grass . The uneven surfaces cause you to ride slower and takes a bit more skill to traverse. This really went a long way helping to hone my handling abilities. 

 

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16 hours ago, Chriull said:

Edit: (1) As the wheel is a gyroscope by precession each force on just one of the pedals makes it turn to the left/right side. So if one puts the weight suddenly on one pedal side (by some "unbalancing", bumps or to compensate road unevenness) the wheel turns to this side. Also pushing down one pedal makes the other pedal coming up. To balance one puts the weight on this other pedal and the wheel swings back in this other direction. With a little bit of overreaction, ?system momentum? the EUC is wobbling/swinging dangerously!

Was also a nice demonstration video here shortly (did not find it for linking... ;( )

 

Here ya go.  Sorry for the piss poor quality, but it was late, dark, and and, well anyway, I was only tipping the axle up and down.  The turning observed is entirely this gyroscopic precession concept.  As others have said, stick with it.  Try lots of little experiments from your ankles to your shoulders, and in time you will build up a repertoire of automatic body movements to suit every situation (except a MAC truck running you over).  However, if you look like you're having an epileptic fit, try a different set of body movements.;) You're welcome. 

Oh, and your feet will stick out much further in front than you would imagine.  If your feet are too far back, any asymmetric disturbance in your path will try to push the wheel sideways a little as you have created a reverse camber effect (the contact patch of the wheel is in front of the force created by the momentum of your body inertia; as applied to the wheel via your feet. 

You can't roll a shopping trolly wheel the wrong way for long before it wants to flip around and trail behind the center of resistance, same for an EUC.  Try riding as far back on the pedals as you can and sense the impending face plant.

One last analogy: it's like a partner dance; the feet are the man and the contact patch of the tire is the woman.  The man leads and the woman follows.

 

Edited by Smoother
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22 hours ago, Chriull said:

Welcome to the forum!

I can't remember experiencing myself or reading about such an issue?

The "standard" points regarding "instabilities" are normally:

- tyre pressure: the wheels arrive with an almoust flat tire and are in dire need of air!

- loose axle/pedal mount: if so, you should have noticed this already as own issue?

- bent/very unbalanced rim: here was shortly a youtube instruction posted on how to balance a EUC tyre

- "wrong" foot position/road "unevenness" standing too much on the ?forward/backward? side of the pedal can more easily lead to a "wobbling" EUC (1). Especially in the beginning. Also can happen if one drives over some "uneven/bumpy/not flat" surfaces.

Can lead to serious accidents at high speeds if one does not see some hole/etc: 

Edit: (1) As the wheel is a gyroscope by precession each force on just one of the pedals makes it turn to the left/right side. So if one puts the weight suddenly on one pedal side (by some "unbalancing", bumps or to compensate road unevenness) the wheel turns to this side. Also pushing down one pedal makes the other pedal coming up. To balance one puts the weight on this other pedal and the wheel swings back in this other direction. With a little bit of overreaction, ?system momentum? the EUC is wobbling/swinging dangerously!

Was also a nice demonstration video here shortly (did not find it for linking... ;( )

Thanks a lot for so much information!

I checked the tire pressure. You are correct. It's very low. I didn't inflate the tire after I got it. After inflation to around 40psi I tried it again. I found the issue less obvious. But when riding on bumpy road, right after the wheel jumped and touched the ground, there is still a little swing. I guess that's normal?

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Thanks everyone for the information! A few clarification and updates:

  1. I'm 5-days new to EUCs :D. I'll practice more for sure. Just want to confirm I didn't do anything wrong.
  2. You are all right about the tire pressure. I didn't inflate the tire after I got it and it was around 20psi.
  3. After inflation to around 40psi I tried it again. I found the issue less obvious. But when riding on bumpy road, right after the wheel jumped and touched the ground again, there is still a little swing. Is it normal?
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17 minutes ago, john4 said:

Thanks everyone for the information! A few clarification and updates:

  1. I'm 5-days new to EUCs :D. I'll practice more for sure. Just want to confirm I didn't do anything wrong.
  2. You are all right about the tire pressure. I didn't inflate the tire after I got it and it was around 20psi.
  3. After inflation to around 40psi I tried it again. I found the issue less obvious. But when riding on bumpy road, right after the wheel jumped and touched the ground again, there is still a little swing. Is it normal?

Glad it's getting better. Yeah, you are so new, most of your problems will go away after you've ridden for a few hundred miles.

If your road is so bumpy that the tire is leaving the ground, then yes, the wheel will probably be twisting on you. Slow down :D.

How does the wheel behave when you are riding on a smooth road. If all is good there, then any affects when riding on very rough roads is just due to the road conditions and not the wheel.

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