Redesign Gotway board

[Inductores]

I saw several EUC boards and the one installed in my Msuper V3 can be improved by far:

-Integrate Bluetooth module on the main board (like Ninebot One E+ board)

-Change the conmutation frequency to another one and reduce coil whine

-Bigger power planes and more tight cables/connectors in order to avoid burnt components

-Holes on the PCB, to fix it on the heatsink Sorry, already placed in the original design

-Although not really needed, implement bigger MOSFET's like the Rockwheel GT16

 

The wheel isn't bad at all, but with a better board I'm sure several faceplants will be avoided. This is not a very complicated board, it's probably a 2-layer board and it'll be very cheap to manufacture. Even a 4-layer board isn't expensive at all!

 

I know this design can be way improved, for this reason I offer my knowledge as HW Electronic Engineer to design a whole new board from the original design (maybe reverse engineering will be used). I will do this for free if someone agrees to develop the firmware, because I don't have too much experience in this field. I don't know if the manufacturer can provide some help for this, but any help will be appreciated

 

Any volunteers?

Edited February 23, 2018 by sifou

[Alien Rides]

I would love to see a better Gotway board, it does seem like they could learn a lot from other manufacturers. Compare that board to something like the z10 board:

I'm not sure if you'd have any luck trying to help out Gotway with their redesign as they aren't very transparent about development. I'm sure there's space for open source hardware and software development though. I could definitely help out with the software for such an endeavor.

 

[DaveThomasPilot]

I have experience in embedded software development, so I could help with that depending on the processor used.   I focus on using Atmel processors.

But, the firmware is "where the beef is".   I've read about some open source code for self balancing, but who knows how much IP is involved between that and something like Gotway and KingSong use in their wheels.

Having said that, when Gotway moved up to 84 volt wheels, there were firmware issues that caused symptoms similar to what one would expect if they kept the same firmware without analyzing the closed loop control response they'd have at 84 volts.  Like they just tweak  the firmware control loop parameters empirically.  

Before investing time in a new board, I'd suggest getting a handle on the balancing algorithm that's needed.  Forget the actual code, just the equations and pseudo code.  Maybe even develop a simulator for test and regression testing.

It's been a while since I was deep into control theory, but it would be fun to dust off those ancient skills.  PM me if you want to talk.

Dave Thomas

[Cannings]

I'd be interested in helping out, not done any assembly level coding before but come from a coding background albeit more .net and python centric but more than willing to learn

[Andres F]

Hi guys, I need your help, does anyone have or know who may have an improved Msuper v3 s + board, or one of the latest ones?  I appreciate any help you can give me, thanks.

[Chriull]

Welcome!

7 minutes ago, Andres F said:

Hi guys, I need your help, does anyone have or know who may have an improved Msuper v3 s + board,

As you see the last post in this topic was in 2018...

7 minutes ago, Andres F said:

or one of the latest ones?

Google search showed them at speedyfeet and ewheels. No idea if the have the latest ones or any at all on stock.

7 minutes ago, Andres F said:

 I appreciate any help you can give me, thanks.

Imho the msuper v3s+ is not produced anymore - so normally the according gw main boards are not produced anymore, too.

Best to contact the resellers if anyone has some still "leftover".

Did you try aliexpress?

[Arbolest]

37 minutes ago, Andres F said:

Hi guys, I need your help, does anyone have or know who may have an improved Msuper v3 s + board, or one of the latest ones?  I appreciate any help you can give me, thanks.

Hey there!

Do you need a board for an MSuper with a "QJ" motor or an "HB" motor? The distinction is important because the firmware is different depending on which motor is in the wheel!

Edited July 23, 2020 by Arbolest

[Andres F]

HB 2000w

[Arbolest]

If you want to buy a direct replacement for an MSuper V3S+ board, then I suggest contacting @Nevin@Tec-toyz.com. He still carries a few boards for the V3S+ and is a good, trustworthy guy who I've dealt with on multiple occasions!

He has them listed for sale here: https://tec-toyz.com/products/gotway-msuper-v3s-pcb-board?_pos=3&_sid=78e5008f8&_ss=r

Just make sure to select the "HB Motor PCB" option in the dropdown menu before placing your order! I also suggest contacting him directly first (his phone number is on the Tec Toyz website) if you need to arrange for shipping outside of the United States.

 

If that lead doesn't work out for you, another option would be to use an MSX control board! Since your wheel uses an HB motor it will be compatible and should work without any issues. A warning though... It will require some effort on your part to modify your wheel's shell slightly to accommodate it! The heatsink has holes in slightly different places, so you will need to drill a few new screw-holes and buy some different/longer screws, and the way the motor wire connectors attach to the board means that you may need to use heat to slightly reshape a portion of your right shell cover to get everything to fit. If you are comfortable doing this kind of stuff, then I can wholeheartedly recommend the upgrade to an MSX board! I did it to my personal V3S+ about a year ago and have been very pleased with it ever since. If you want, I can post pictures and a more in-depth description of what you will need to do.

 

If neither of those options work for you, then PM me and we can discuss other solutions to your problem.

Good luck!

Edited July 24, 2020 by Arbolest

[Andres F]

Thanks!! 💪💪💪

[Andres F]

@Arbolest how are you?  after some back and forth, I got a motherboard of msx 84v, and apparently received the new style msp format, I found some photos that you uploaded in the comparison of the new and old msx motherboard, I will try to adapt it to my v3 s +,  any advice?

@andres firpo (Instagram)

[Arbolest]

Hey there @Andres F, I've been working nonstop the last few days and haven't had much time to check the forums so sorry for the late reply.

I'm excited for you! That should prove to be a fantastic upgrade for your MSuper! 

My advice for the transplant "surgery" is all taken from my own experiences when I upgraded my own personal MSV3S+ last year.

1) Removing the old board. You will need to unplug everything and completely remove the old board and heat sink from your wheel. Unscrewing it from the shell is an obvious first step, but the board's heatsink is also attached to the pedal hanger and will need to be removed there as well! When it was installed in the factory, Gotway used a cheap thermal paste between the heatsink and the pedal hanger that you may wish to clean off. Cleaning it up is optional, but I'm a neat-freak so I did of course  (rubbing alcohol and some paper towels worked perfectly for me). Once the board is removed, you will probably also want to cover the gap in the shell where it was attached to the pedal hanger. You can use Duct/Gorilla tape if you happen to have it, or anything else that you have on hand that you know will be waterproof. For instance, I used a piece of craft foam that I had lying around (arrow pointing to it in the picture below) and attached it with a solid bead of superglue all the way around. Whatever it is, it needs to be thin and/or flexible because the magnet that holds your pedal up on that side might end up pressing into it slightly! (you can see the indentations from that in the picture)

2) Install the new board. The new boards all seem to have a couple of their holes in very slightly different spots than the old MSV3S+ boards, so you will need to either drill new ones (with a VERY thin drill bit) or be ready to screw straight into/through the shell's plastic. In either case, I would personally use screws with deeper threads than the ones Gotway originally used. That said, if you would rather not go through the hassle of finding the "perfect" replacement screw, then the originals will of course work just fine.

3) Make sure that your main power connectors match! For their main power/battery connection Gotway typically uses the slightly smaller XT-60 connector (solid yellow connector in the bottom left corner of the wheel in the picture above), however it is getting more and more common for an XT-90 connector (larger yellow connector with the green stripe just above the pedal hanger) to be installed, so make sure the connector that came with your new board is compatible with what is in your wheel!

4) Motor Wires. The original V3S+ board had its motor wire connectors on short lengths of wire, but the new style boards all have the connectors attached straight to the board itself. This means that in order to route your cables/wires correctly you will need to bend your motor wires just above the connector. This has to be at a SHARP 90 degree angle as close to the base of the connector as possible. I had to use 2 sets of pliers to get a satisfactory bend in mine because the wires are so stiff. WARNING: The motor wires Gotway uses are made of hard-annealed copper, which means that if you bend them back and forth too much at sharp angles they can possibly break (imagine bending a paper clip back and forth a bunch of times...), so don't do this too many times!

5)The reason the wires need to have this super sharp bend so close to the connector is because of a slight difference in the V3S+ and MSX shells. The bottom half (below the battery compartment) of the side panel on the MSX is bowed outward more than on the V3S+, and this allows for about a quarter-inch or so of extra depth. It turns out that extra depth is crucial to allow the wires to bend easily in that confined space... This means that even with the super sharp bend we added to the motor wires, we still have to modify the shell slightly to get everything to fit properly. My solution was to use a small heat gun to make little bumps in the side panel directly above the motor wire connections on the board. This gave the connectors just enough room so that when I attached the side panel it wasn't putting tons of pressure on the board and wires. Luckily for you, the new MSP-style boards have the connectors closer together so you can probably get away with making a single wider bump over the cluster of three connections (which will probably make it a little less noticeable than the three little "warts" that mine has now )

One thing to note when using the heat gun on the side panel... It took a surprisingly long time to get the plastic warm enough to put those three little bends in it! That means it was HOT, so use a tool like the end of a marker or a pencil eraser to press the bumps into the plastic. If you try to use your finger for this, it will NOT end well for you!    Also, in the picture, the middle bump looks significantly larger than the other two but it's really not. It just looks that way because of the reflective vinyl sticker I put on the outside for night visibility a couple years ago.

6) Reconnecting everything. You need to get a picture or diagram from whoever you got your new MSX board from (if it was a retailer) clearly showing what all of the ports are for your specific version. Unfortunately, Gotway has gone through MANY revisions of its boards, and the layouts for almost all of them are a bit different from each other. The only thing I can say with relative certainty is that the motor wire connection order has never changed. When the board is installed, GREEN is on top, BLUE is in the middle, and YELLOW will be on the bottom.

7) A new lease on life... Once everything is back together and the wheel turns on and doesn't do anything unexpected, immediately do a calibration. Once you are satisfied with that, you need to go out and relearn your wheel! It will have a bit of a different personality than it had when you were using the original V3S+ board. The most immediate thing you will notice is that no matter which riding mode you use, they are all stiffer than the ones you used to have! So if you liked to use Hard/Sport mode on the V3S+, then your world is about to get rocked!  The new boards have power delivery capabilities that would make the old boards blush, and they aren't afraid to show it off! That means the reactions to your inputs will be sharper/harder/faster, and the motor can even sound a little bit throatier than it used to. Me personally, I used to ride my V3S+ in Medium mode all the time, and the closest my newer board has to that old feeling is the new Soft mode. I went into it knowing it wouldn't be the same, but I didn't really understand until I actually experienced it. It's not something that I can easily convey here, so I won't try. Just know that in the beginning it might feel a bit foreign and strange, but your old friend is still there, just with some new personality quirks. 

 

Anyway, I hope this wasn't too long of a read or that it sounds overwhelming. It was a great experience for me when I did the upgrade and it got me really familiar with the internal workings of my wheel, so I'm glad I did it and I know you will be too once you're done. If you have any other questions feel free to post them! I'd love to help with this any way I can!

 

Good luck!  

Edited September 3, 2020 by Arbolest

[Andres F]

Thank you very much for taking that time, the explanation is too complete and explicit, I'm not very neat in the terminations, but the MSV3S + is rolling strongly like the first day haha, the improved motherboard increased the consumption peaks 😉😉 the truth is that excellent machine !!!  My wife is currently using it, I upgraded to an RS-HS, but on rainy days I prefer the MSuper, it is more courageous and waterproof hahaha.  Again, I greatly appreciate your post, it has been a great help to me !!!

 #EUC_URUGUAY

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/COAnajtpXgM/