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Advice and Tips before first order


that0n3guy
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Hey all,

I'm new to the EUC world.   I decided to sell off my electric skateboard pre-order and go this route instead.   I've done a bunch of research and think I know what I want, but thought I would ask the experts first.

My profile:

  • 195lb/88kg before pads, helmet, backpack
  • mid 30's physically fit-ish.  My weight isn't from a big belly
  • experience skateboarding, snowboarding, etc..   Balance stuff I pick up quickly.
  • I'm not a "speed addict".   Whenever I snowboard, I never bomb down the hills, but I like to weave trees.
  • Not scared of tearing this thing down and fixing stuff if needed.

What I'm looking for:

  • Since I have a higher than average weight, I want something with more power than might normally be needed
  • looking to hit the 20-25mph/32kph-40kph
  • 10 mile range (that how far my office is from home).   So 3x that so I don't have to charge at work.. and lunch rides.
  • able to do short hills at 20% grade
  • basic offroading, nothing too crazy just trails

My thoughts:

  • Top pick: ACMv2 - Based on @Marty Backe's review, it seems like a tesla but more rugged exterior + axel.   Is cheaper than tesla on ewheels for the 1300wh and about the same weight I think.
  • 2nd Pick: GW tesla - gets great reviews thus far
  • 3rd pick: KS16s - Maybe a little underpowered compared to the new GW stuff.   Those there are some majore ks16 fans out there.
  • wait for: ninebot Z10 - the 4 inche wheel looks sweet, but I'm not sure I like the potential price ($2k)

My questions/worries:

  • My biggest worry about the ACMv2 is that its less tested as it was recently released and not too many people have them yet.   Also, do the wires seem pretty whimpy on that thing (from marty's video)?
  • The tesla seem fragile.   I saw the cracked shell thread and thats probably not good for a beginner based on what I've read :).
  • Do I need a fast charger.?  I don't care about charge speed but I don't want to have to remember to unplug it everytime its full.
  • Should I wait for the ninebot z10 to come out to decide? If it will release in early Q2 then I probably would wait to see it and its price.  Its snowing here at the moment (Nebraska usa)
  • Anyone have any good hookups on deals :P?

I tried to organize the post so it was a quick skim read. 

 

 

Edited by that0n3guy
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Very well thought out... 

Based on your comments I would think the ACM or KS16S would work well for you - both meet your requirements, but have "extra" for later on (when your addiction will demand it).

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28 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

Hey all,

I'm new to the EUC world.   I decided to sell off my electric skateboard pre-order and go this route instead.   I've done a bunch of research and think I know what I want, but thought I would ask the experts first.

My profile:

  • 195lb/88kg before pads, helmet, backpack
  • mid 30's physically fit-ish.  My weight isn't from a big belly
  • experience skateboarding, snowboarding, etc..   Balance stuff I pick up quickly.
  • I'm not a "speed addict".   Whenever I snowboard, I never bomb down the hills, but I like to weave trees.
  • Not scared of tearing this thing down and fixing stuff if needed.

What I'm looking for:

  • Since I have a higher than average weight, I want something with more power than might normally be needed
  • looking to hit the 20-25mph/32kph-40kph
  • 10 mile range (that how far my office is from home).   So 3x that so I don't have to charge at work.. and lunch rides.
  • able to do short hills at 20% grade
  • basic offroading, nothing too crazy just trails

My thoughts:

  • Top pick: ACMv2 - Based on @Marty Backe's review, it seems like a tesla but more rugged exterior + axel.   Is cheaper than tesla on ewheels for the 1300wh and about the same weight I think.
  • 2nd Pick: GW tesla - gets great reviews thus far
  • 3rd pick: KS16s - Maybe a little underpowered compared to the new GW stuff.   Those there are some majore ks16 fans out there.
  • wait for: ninebot Z10 - the 4 inche wheel looks sweet, but I'm not sure I like the potential price ($2k)

My questions/worries:

  • My biggest worry about the ACMv2 is that its less tested as it was recently released and not too many people have them yet.   Also, do the wires seem pretty whimpy on that thing (from marty's video)?
  • The tesla seem fragile.   I saw the cracked shell thread and thats probably not good for a beginner based on what I've read :).
  • Do I need a fast charger.?  I don't care about charge speed but I don't want to have to remember to unplug it everytime its full.
  • Should I wait for the ninebot z10 to come out to decide? If it will release in early Q2 then I probably would wait to see it and its price.  Its snowing here at the moment (Nebraska usa)
  • Anyone have any good hookups on deals :P?

I tried to organize the post so it was a quick skim read. 

 

 

You can probably predict my answer. Based on your criteria I would recommend the ACM2. BTW, I'm pretty sure the EWheels is only selling the 1600wh version, and I think his shipment is arriving with a couple of weeks.

The ACM has a long history now so I don't think you should consider it a new wheel. When I looked at the inside of mine I was impressed. Looks very robust (I've owned all the different versions of the ACM except for the very first 6-MOSFET model). I've been riding mine, and fast, with no worries.

The original ACM was pretty robust, but now with the stronger axle and more powerful motor, I think it's a tank.

The KS16S is a great wheel, but its top-end speed is ~22-mph, and that's pushing it. I don't know what the top-end speed of the ACM2 is (because I'm not going to test that) but it's somewhere in the 30's. So riding at 25-mph still leaves you a lot of safety headroom. If you're cruising at 22-mph on the KS16S you are riding at it's limit and you have no margin for error.

If you don't need the range of the ACM2 (50-miles) and prefer the looks of the Tesla, buy the Tesla. It's a great wheel, lots of power, and has more bling. But otherwise I think the ACM2 is the better wheel.

And regards the Z10 - there's always something potentially better around the corner. Maybe the Z10 will be the best (it's an 18-inch wheel BTW, so it'll handle differently than a 16-inch wheel) wheel out. Or maybe it won't. Lot's of unknowns with this new wheel. I would say that they are no unknowns about the ACM2.

You don't need a fast-charger, but I do like mine. I prefer not to charge my wheels overnight and that's not possible with the standard charger, which could take >10 hours to charge the ACM2 vs 3-4 hours with the fast charger. Since I have multiple wheels I generally don't care how long it takes to recharge one since I can just grab another wheel. But if I only owned one long-range wheel, I would buy the fast charger so you aren't waiting to ride.

21 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Very well thought out... 

Based on your comments I would think the ACM or KS16S would work well for you - both meet your requirements, but have "extra" for later on (when your addiction will demand it).

The KS16S does not meet his requirement of 20 - 25 mph.

Edited by Marty Backe
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Hi! More and more new riders here every day:cheers:

My first thought after reading your post: Kingsong 18S (or the upcoming 18L which has a more standard form factor - not tall like the 18S). Because if you primarily think "commute" when questioning what you'd use the wheel for, a more stable, comfortable and forgiving 18 incher might be nice to have - imagine, you're tired in the morning and wheeling to work and don't pay 100% attention to the road every second one day (which is just natural), and you miss a little bump/pothole/whatever, then an 18 incher will just more easily go over that without shaking you to the core or throwing you off (while not really suitable as a first wheel, I'd even think about the Gotway Monster otherwise - 22 inches is just beautifully comfortable and stable and forgiving). And the 18S is fast, and stable at these high speeds. That's the general idea for 18 inches over 16.

Your 16 inch choices are great too (and in the "right" order). You could take all of them with no problems, all great wheels (for you, maybe the 16S is a little too slow for a 10 mile/>30minutes commute, and the battery a little too small). And if you rather want a 16 incher, go for that.

It's really important to go by your instinct and first impulse when choosing what wheel is right for you, so don't overthink it, choose the wheel that jumps out at you.

30 miles is right at the limit of what a 1000Wh wheel can do  - especially at your weight (also backpack etc.), which is a little on the high side in comparison to known range etc. numbers from riders here, and your temperatures that might be on the cold side (I guess... Nebraska) which also reduces battery performance and range. So the Tesla (1020Wh) and bigger batteries work for you. The 16S has 840Wh and it agressively throttles you to slower speeds at low-ish battery, so if you really want 30 mile range at speed, you won't have fun with the 16S. But that's an "if" - if you just plug it in at work, its battery is plenty big enough for your 10 mile commute.

You can just plug in the charger and forget - the wheel's battery management system stops any charger at the max voltage, fast charger or regular, no difference. So no need to worry about any charging issues. A fast charger just charges faster (the final 10% or so are the same speed on any charger), that's the only difference.

So, here's my list what I recommend for you:

  • Kingsong 18S 1680Wh. 18 incher, fast, quality electronics a level or two above Gotway's, a very big (raaaaaange!) and the safest battery of any wheel (8 parallel blocks means, even at low charge percentage, any current demand from a sudden bump or so can be easily met). It's what I would buy for a regular commute that is on the long side (I also assume, you're not commuting through a city with nice bike lanes and a light every 30 seconds and so on, but more like between places on roads)
  • If money is a concern, maybe ewheels.com can get you an 18S with a battery size between 840 (too small) and 1680 (expensive) - maybe around 1300Wh,  believe 1360 exists. You could ask @Jason McNeil (owner) here or via email.
  • ACM2 1300Wh or 1600Wh (my tip: in doubt, if you can, always go for the bigger battery!), simply because of the bigger battery in comparison to the Tesla (and the wheels are identical in electronics, so no difference there). Yes, the cables are skimpy (same as Tesla), but even that works easily for 20% incline if it isn't too long. The ACM is a tried and tested wheel, the Tesla isn't bad either, so I would not expect any issues with the ACM2 compared to them.
  • (I guess the big price difference makes the ACM2 the contender over the 18S, but maybe you can ask Jason for a discount on an 18S, or he throws in a fast charger or so)

(The Ninebot One Z is an unknown, but 18 incher, ~1000Wh which I personally find borderline too small (so my 16S/Tesla dislike) if you can help it, and the price won't be to crazy - I think ~$1700 was stated here somewhere. The 18L should be comparable to the 18S)

(Always wear wrist guards on any wheel, and for daily riding and the speeds you think of, get a full face helmet and kneed guards too).

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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I bought my first wheel a week and a half ago.  I picked the ACM2.  I'm 220 lbs and 6'4".  I picked it because of the extra power and load capacity compaired to other wheels.  I also picked it because it is the only wheel out there that has a 1600wh battery in a 16" wheel.  I thought an 18" wheel would be too large and not as manuverable as a 16".  I LOVE that I don't have to worry  about charging it every day and that I can ride it anywhere I like and not have to worry about or cut my ride short because of range issues.

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Thanks @Marty Backe and @The Fat Unicyclist

I was also thinking the KS16s doesn't meet that criteria.   Its close, but I want some safety margin :)... but it does get great reviews.

One thing I should have put down there was lighter weight = better.   We all know that.   I just figured if it was 45lbs vs 53lbs... I'd pick 45.

I'd not researched the KS18s much.   But with the smaller battery it might be a good one.   Since I don't ride yet, I don't really know the difference between 18" and 16".   Turning ease is probably the main thing I can think of.

 

Edit: Woh, 2 other posts since I saw this :).   

 

Edited by that0n3guy
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The 16S has plenty safety margin at the 35km/h it will let you go, safety is no issue. But it won't let you go faster and throttle to slower speed limit relatively soon.

Bigger wheels are not that much harder to turn. People weave around with the 22 inch Monster. You get used to it fast. I think it only matters in combination with going down a steep hill, offroad or so, where you really need twitchy control movements, where >16 inches is too unwieldy.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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20 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

Thanks @Marty Backe and @The Fat Unicyclist

I was also thinking the KS16s doesn't meet that criteria.   Its close, but I want some safety margin :)... but it does get great reviews.

One thing I should have put down there was lighter weight = better.   We all know that.   I just figured if it was 45lbs vs 53lbs... I'd pick 45.

I'd not researched the KS18s much.   But with the smaller battery it might be a good one.   Since I don't ride yet, I don't really know the difference between 18" and 16".   Turning ease is probably the main thing I can think of.

 

Edit: Woh, 2 other posts since I saw this :).   

 

I know I'm going to get flak for this, but be aware that the KS18L, with its tall shell, can be an acquired taste (in looks and handling). Some people love it, some people hate it, and some people (me) are somewhere in the middle. I have some videos on the KS18S on my YouTube channel - here's my KS18S playlist:

 

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27 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The 16S has plenty safety margin at the 35km/h it will let you go, safety is no issue. But it won't let you go faster and throttle to slower speed limit relatively soon.

Bigger wheels are not that much harder to turn. People weave around with the 22 inch Monster. You get used to it fast. I think it only matters in combination with going down a steep hill, offroad or so, where you really need twitchy control movements, where >16 inches is too unwieldy.

Bigger wheels can be very agile. However, there is no doubt in my mind that it takes a lot more effort to be agile. The Mten3 reads my mind. The Monster demands much effort in comparison.

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If you want to be able to walk your machine, you want a built-in trolley handle.  External/add-on trolley breaks too easily (and looks bad).  All the options you suggest are good.  If you need extra range the ACM2 1600 is the choice.  I weigh 175lbs and get <30 miles on full Tesla charge (mostly riding around 19-23mph).

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It seems like the 16" is more popular than the 18".   Is that mostly because there aren't a lot of 18" options, or are their not a lot of 18" options b/c the market seems to want smaller EUC's?

After doing some research based on @meepmeepmayer's post above.   I really don't like shape of the ks18s.   But the ks18L... looks nice though.   If the specs I see are right, 1000kw and around 40lbs?  This video doesn't make it seem that big.

As for battery size.   I've got 3 small kids so my ability to go cruise for even an hour is pretty limited for the next several years.   I feel like around 1000kw is probably fine.   Especially if I put a charger at my office to give it a little charge when I get their somedays.

With the whole 16" vs 18", I've never ridden either so I really wouldn't know how to pick.   The stability of the 18" is appealing, but the 16" seems to be the sweet spot for most people. 

If the KS18L comes out in March, I'll probably wait and see some reviews on it... but if it comes out much later then that, I'll probably just get something.   Last year I pre-ordered the Raptor 2 (electric skateboard) which I still don't have (I just sold my pre-order).   I don't really want to waste another summer w/o something :).

Edit: Also, I was thinking I'll probably ride this offroad about half as much as I will on the road.   Some people say 18" is bad for offroad, some say 18" is the best for offroad.   Whats everyones thoughts on that?

Edited by that0n3guy
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3 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

It seems like the 16" is more popular than the 18".   Is that mostly because there aren't a lot of 18" options, or are their not a lot of 18" options b/c the market seems to want smaller EUC's?

After doing some research based on @meepmeepmayer's post above.   I really don't like shape of the ks18s.   But the ks18L... looks nice though.   If the specs I see are right, 1000kw and around 40lbs?  This video doesn't make it seem that big.

As for battery size.   I've got 3 small kids so my ability to go cruise for even an hour is pretty limited for the next several years.   I feel like around 1000kw is probably fine.   Especially if I put a charger at my office to give it a little charge when I get their somedays.

With the whole 16" vs 18", I've never ridden either so I really wouldn't know how to pick.   The stability of the 18" is appealing, but the 16" seems to be the sweet spot for most people. 

If the KS18L comes out in March, I'll probably wait and see some reviews on it... but if it comes out much later then that, I'll probably just get something.   Last year I pre-ordered the Raptor 2 (electric skateboard) which I still don't have (I just sold my pre-order).   I don't really want to waste another summer w/o something :).

For your first wheel I highly recommend the 16-inch form factor. It's very popular for a reason - it's the best general purpose size. Believe me, when you go from a 16-inch wheel to an 18-inch wheel it seems like you've gone from a car to a truck in terms of handling, size, and weight.

If I was stuck having to own one wheel it would be a 16-inch wheel. This is my opinion of course.

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1 minute ago, that0n3guy said:

Thanks @Marty Backe.  Your videos are great.   I'm definitely leaning towards the ACMv2, but the no trolly handle (which I know I would use all the time) is bummer.   Are the external/add-on trolly handles as bad as @duaner says? Maybe that just pushes me towards the tesla.

I have the external made-to-fit trolley handle for the ACM (which I think EWheels includes with the ACM). I agree, trolley handles are very nice and I have them on all my wheels except the Monster.

Trolley handles that are fitted on the rear of the wheel never handle as well as the inline versions (like the Tesla), but they are just as functional.

For the externally mounted trolley handles, I would not mount them until you are past the wheel-crashing phase of learning to ride because they don't take abuse very well. Once you are a competent rider, then no problem, IMHO.

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2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

you are past the wheel-crashing phase of learning to ride

Ha, I've seen some "learning to ride" videos so I think I understand there is a pretty decent learning curve.   Its one of the reasons I'm leaning away from the tesla is because it doesn't look like it would take a beating.  Cover it with gaffers tape or something :).

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9 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

Ha, I've seen some "learning to ride" videos so I think I understand there is a pretty decent learning curve.   Its one of the reasons I'm leaning away from the tesla is because it doesn't look like it would take a beating.  Cover it with gaffers tape or something :).

Whatever wheel you get, protect it. I learned on an ACM. After the first day of crashes I went to Home Depot and bought some rubber (not foam) copper pipe insulation. I cut up pieces of it and taped them to the wheel at the 'hit' points. Very effective for the first month or so of riding.

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I'll give you my advice as a person who learned last year and is also commuting to work (about 10km each way). Currently I have a Tesla that I got just as it got to cold (for me) to ride so I did very little (about 20km) on it. Last year I was using my MCM4 for the commute.

So my advise is get a cheap wheel first and learn on it. It should take you couple of weeks to a month to be confident on the wheel. You will crash it a lot at first. Also it will not be very fast so you should be able to survive the crashes. A cheap wheel will be a 14" it is easier to handle for a beginner. Once you have outgrown it then you can decide if you want to move up to 16" or stay with 14". If you stay with 14" then the new MCM5 looks good, but if you want 16" then the Tesla would be my recommendation. Both the MCM5 and Tesla with the largest batteries will give you enough range that you listed.

Why not the ACM, no build in handle. External handle will get broken, guarantee. Maybe after a year of riding when you skill is high you can avoid the crashes, but not before it.

A most important point that I can't emphasize enough, read the Rehab1 accident thread in general discussion forum before you get an EUC. This will open your eyes to what you are getting yourself into.

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18 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Whatever wheel you get, protect it.

Will do for sure.   I was just watching your tesla mountain stress test, I love that area.   I'm actually leaving for Ontario, california this evening.   I'd say lets meet up, but I don't think I'll have time till Monday, but by then I'll be down in San Diego (work conference).

 

22 minutes ago, NECway said:

read the Rehab1 accident thread in general discussion forum before you get an EUC

This is good advice.  I'm willing to take some risks, but I'm also old enough to not care about looking "cool" and ride protected... and I'm no speed junky.   I defiantly plan on riding with armor.   I recently sold my motorcycle as there are too many crazy drivers.   Even going 45mph on a motorcycle is too fast when someone cuts in front of you.   I have motorcycle gear and a good helmet (full face).   Though a motorcycle helmet might be overkill some days, I have a nice bern skate helmet too... not full face, but maybe i'll get a TSG (these have great field of view).

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8 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

Will do for sure.   I was just watching your tesla mountain stress test, I love that area.   I'm actually leaving for Ontario, california this evening.   I'd say lets meet up, but I don't think I'll have time till Monday, but by then I'll be down in San Diego (work conference).

 

This is good advice.  I'm willing to take some risks, but I'm also old enough to not care about looking "cool" and ride protected... and I'm no speed junky.   I defiantly plan on riding with armor.   I recently sold my motorcycle as there are too many crazy drivers.   Even going 45mph on a motorcycle is too fast when someone cuts in front of you.   I have motorcycle gear and a good helmet (full face).   Though a motorcycle helmet might be overkill some days, I have a nice bern skate helmet too... not full face, but maybe i'll get a TSG (these have great field of view).

In your initial comments you mention going between 20 and 25-mph. Please understand that this places you in the "speed junky" category when it comes to EUCs :w00t2: Trust me, 25-mph on a wheel, inches above the ground, feels extremely fast (and is extremely fast if you have a spill).

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48 minutes ago, NECway said:

I'll give you my advice as a person who learned last year and is also commuting to work (about 10km each way). Currently I have a Tesla that I got just as it got to cold (for me) to ride so I did very little (about 20km) on it. Last year I was using my MCM4 for the commute.

So my advise is get a cheap wheel first and learn on it. It should take you couple of weeks to a month to be confident on the wheel. You will crash it a lot at first. Also it will not be very fast so you should be able to survive the crashes. A cheap wheel will be a 14" it is easier to handle for a beginner. Once you have outgrown it then you can decide if you want to move up to 16" or stay with 14". If you stay with 14" then the new MCM5 looks good, but if you want 16" then the Tesla would be my recommendation. Both the MCM5 and Tesla with the largest batteries will give you enough range that you listed.

Why not the ACM, no build in handle. External handle will get broken, guarantee. Maybe after a year of riding when you skill is high you can avoid the crashes, but not before it.

A most important point that I can't emphasize enough, read the Rehab1 accident thread in general discussion forum before you get an EUC. This will open your eyes to what you are getting yourself into.

Some good advice, but to offer a little counterpoint, I learned on the ACM. The wheel and I survived, and because I had the fastest wheel (at the time) I had no urges to upgrade for quite some time.

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7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Please understand that this places you in the "speed junky" category when it comes to EUCs

Ha...  that could be.   Could be I'm dumb in my assumptions and will never go that fast.    I know 30-40 on an ebike doesn't feel that bad, but that is a different story.   I just figured 20-25 once in a while in perfect conditions is doable.   I plan on setting kickback and alerts low for a long time.     Sometimes I wish I had that on my snowboard when I was first learning... would have saved me a black eye or two and lots of pain :).

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16 inch is definitely the "allrounder" size, while 18 goes more towards stability. Reality is, you can ride anything pretty much everywhere, especially if it's your first wheel and you have no comparison anyways. Both are great for offroad - you'll only have a little less quick maneuverability with an 18 incher, and a little less stability/comfort with a 16 incher, but both can be (and is) done perfectly well.

The reason I recommended the 18S is specifically because you mentioned a longer, regular commute with higher speeds and I felt the added stability and comfort from a bigger wheel might be preferable then (also, KingSong electronics are better than Gotway's, but in the end experience shows the Gotway electronics are good enough to not care too much).

I would not wait for months for some future model to come out (aka the 18L). If you don't like the 18S, I'd say go for the ACM2 (or Tesla, if you prefer that, but I'm very biased towards the ACM's shell and battery size). It's price is also really good for what you get.

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8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

16 inch is definitely the "allrounder" size, while 18 goes more towards stability. Reality is, you can ride anything pretty much everywhere, especially if it's your first wheel and you have no comparison anyways. Both are great for offroad - you'll only have a little less quick maneuverability with an 18 incher, and a little less stability/comfort with a 16 incher, but both can be (and is) done perfectly well.

The reason I recommended the 18S is specifically because you mentioned a longer, regular commute with higher speeds and I felt the added stability and comfort from a bigger wheel might be preferable then (also, KingSong electronics are better than Gotway's, but in the end experience shows the Gotway electronics are good enough to not care too much).

I would not wait for months for some future model to come out (aka the 18L). If you don't like the 18S, I'd say go for the ACM2 (or Tesla, if you prefer that, but I'm very biased towards the ACM's shell and battery size). It's price is also really good for what you get.

All good advice.

But since you're adverse to recommending the MSuper as an 18-inch wheel, I will. You (@that0n3guy) may love the KS18S but you may also loathe it. The 18S can be an acquired taste. The MSuper is a more conventionally fitted 18-inch wheel that does not require the acclimation of the 18S. The MSuper also happens to be a fantastic wheel that I also believe is more powerful than the KS18S, mainly due to its 84-volt power plant. The MSuper also has a built-in trolley handle.

There, I've done my due diligence in defending the greatness of the MSuper :D

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Even if you don't think you'll ride the wheel longer distances, as a newbie, I'd say get the largest battery size possible.

I'd hate to spend $1000.00+ on a wheel when I could spend a couple hundred more and have the largest battery available.  Once you start riding, you are going to want to ride as much as possible.  These things are INCREDIBLY addicting!

I just past 120 miles on my new ACM2 (my first wheel).  I've only charged it twice!

 

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