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Smoother

KS16 2.5" (tire) modification. My experiences

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Ah, I thought he foamed a 16S. Now it makes sense.

What I would try is foam one side of the shell, then put two films of the thin household plastic wrap on top. Now foam the other half and close the shell. Surface might be irregular, but the sides should fit together quite well.

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5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Ah, I thought he foamed a 16S. Now it makes sense.

What I would try is foam one side of the shell, then put two films of the thin household plastic wrap on top. Now foam the other half and close the shell. Surface might be irregular, but the sides should fit together quite well.

its probably not a hard mod.

but its the part of it that there is no way back once i grind the shell. then i have to use the foam

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@Shad0z when did you move to Denmark ?  "Location Copenhagen, Denmark (from Krasnodar, Russia)"

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ok. Everyone. Its official. Im making my tesla shell into swiss cheese. @Ando Melkonyan already did it before. I talked with him a little. And he would send photos he said. But now its more than a month since he said he would send them.

so i will just need to figure it out myself. And get some good spray foam. The hard kind. And start grinding.

i will make a thread once i do it. Either a fail thread or a sucess. there isnt much that can fail. Other than once i grind away what needs to be grinded. There is no way back. And i then have to make it work

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3 minutes ago, Smoother said:

@Shad0z when did you move to Denmark ?  "Location Copenhagen, Denmark (from Krasnodar, Russia)"

Actually a long time ago. But i was in russia for some months when i setup the profile. So now i changed it to better reflect my Location 

Edited by Shad0z

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 A few weeks ago I replaced my semi-slick tubeless (run with a tube) tyre for a more conventional Chow Yang 2.5" as specified on the IPS Lhotz.  I must say the ride is better; leans with me more into fast turns, and tries to stand upright less in fast turns like a Z10/6,etc.

More off road grip from an actual tread and not just groves cut in a slick.

Overall, I'm happy.  No idea how it compares to the original 2.125" tyre as that hasn't been in place for a while now. (since the start of this thread)

Edited by Smoother

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Anyone tried fitting 14D pedal stems on raised ka16, for higher pedal height?

(The holes seem to measure up.nicely)

 

IMG-20190731-WA0027.jpg

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On 6/7/2018 at 11:19 PM, mrelwood said:

I made 2cm spacers to fill the exposed hole, to support the shell and to make sure it sits straight:

C554358C-DFB6-4E7E-89DC-B39FA70E2F2A.thumb.jpeg.19f529294f9b34eb7c61fd08bd73dd3b.jpeg

 

im considering doing this, but im afraid i don't understand what this refers to. is there a picture of the before?

am i just looking at the hotglue looking thing? is 2cm the lenghth, width, or thickness?

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On 3/24/2020 at 6:29 PM, someguy152 said:

im considering doing this, but im afraid i don't understand what this refers to. is there a picture of the before?

am i just looking at the hotglue looking thing? is 2cm the lenghth, width, or thickness?

Yes, the block of see thru plastic. Height is the only important measure. As the shell is mounted, the pedal bracket slides in along the channel, from the bottom of the photo. It used to slide all the way to the end of the channel, but now the see-thru block stops the pedal bracket exactly 2cm before reaching the end of the channel. I hope that explained it better!

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Posted (edited)

thanks, i'm sure it'll make sense if i go thru with it!

is my best bet of getting 14 or 16inch tires and inner tubes from a euc store or can i just go on ebay or aliexpress and find tires and tubes with the right dimensions?

 

 

Edited by someguy152
added info

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1 hour ago, someguy152 said:

is my best bet of getting 14 or 16inch tires and inner tubes from a euc store or can i just go on ebay or aliexpress and find tires and tubes with the right dimensions?

I have bought all my tires from Aliexpress and Ebay. EUC shops only have the original spares for the models they sell, if any. Two things to note:

- Aliexpress and many Ebay tires usually don’t ship the same tread pattern that’s in the pictures. If you want a specific pattern, message the seller first.

- 16x2.50” is a very different size than 2.50-16”. The latter designation is a motorcycle standard and fits a 16” rim, so the actual tire diameter is 4” larger. Unfortunately even some sellers are unaware of this, and may ship the wrong size. Check wether the shop sells mostly bicycle or motorcycle stuff.

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If one puts a 2-1/2" tubeless tire on a 2-1/8" rim, the rim holds the bead width to 2-1/8", so the tire doesn't fatten out much (at most 50%), rather the profile changes and the tire gets taller.

What is more concerning is the bead angle is changed, increasing the chance of bead separation. Sometimes this is a slow deflation, sometimes this is violently sudden. In the case of a unicycle it wold most likely happen under extreme stress (after a jump) with a hefty rider aboard, though dust may work between the rim and tire and the bead seal may fail.

With a tube setup the tire remains wider than the rim, trying to fatten itself outward, increasing the angle between the tire and rim. This leads to more sidewall flex and more bead movement, wearing the tube faster, and potentially letting more dust/water/mud past the rim, causing faster tube wear.

The excess rubber of the fatty tire (the stuff that doesn't fit properly on the rim, similar to some of our beltlines) tends to squish around and make the tire mushy (maybe skip the mental image of your belt-line, picturing it once is plenty), so more air pressure helps keep the tire firm. At the same time, tires are meant to have a specific contact patch, and a bigger tire has more contact patch, so lowering the air pressure helps (the contact patch supports fewer Pounds per Square Inch, using the Standard system). Generally there is no better outcome other than switching back to a proper tire engineered for the rim.

Since the bead adhesion to the rim is already under strain by due to the strained beat-rim interface, the tire could break free more easily and slip under aggressive maneuvers, such as emergency braking. Perhaps the worst combination is Slip-POP!-Flop, with the tire doing the slipping, a pinched tube doing the popping, and your personal carcass doing the flopping.

To a lesser extent there's also the question of using a larger tube to match the internal volume of the tire--noting there are other stresses to consider.

 

The F9 Darkside video covers many of the principles discussed in simple terms with pictures:

 

Note: What you do is up to you, and how you do it too. Hopefully this information helps you do it better.

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3 hours ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

the tire could break free more easily and slip under aggressive maneuvers

The issues you mention in your post are all either irrelevant, or in the case of tube wear, too small to cause consern on an EUC.

All EUCs but the Mten3 and Z10 use a tubed system, so the bead is not even supposed to be airtight. Outer tire slipping with a tubed EUC setup is a total impossibility, unless the tube and the tire bead is well lubricated. I had the tubeless MiniPro tire slip a bit a few times after tire replacement since the mounting lubrication was still wet and the tire pressure was very low. But on a pressurized tubed system with the tube grabbing the tire all around, it’s just not possible.

The valve hole on an EUC has to fit a 90 degree bent valve stem, so it must be generously oversized. That’s where the crud goes in enough to be problematic. I’ve seen it many times, the tube starts to wear next to the valve first.

Inmotion has provided the V8 with either a 1.95” and a 2.125” tire. To my knowledge even the originally 2.5” EUCs have the same rim width than 2.125” EUCs. Just going by feel, the inside of the MSX rim (3.0” tire) is actually narrower than the Lhotz rim (2.5” tire). Matching the tire width to a suitable rim width is not nearly as precise on a bicycle tire system than it is on a MC or car.

The Darkside video explains how a car tire doesn’t sit on a MC rim because the bead is of a different shape. A 2.5” tire still has the same bead shape, and considering that EUC rims barely have any real bead to begin with, and how the tube constantly pushes the rubber bead against the rim anyway, I’m confident that the difference in fit is irrelevant.

I rode the winter with a 2.75-14 motorcycle tire on the MSX. While I’m sure you see a bunch of red flags popping up, it was easily the most stable EUC experience I’ve ever had, under all situations, including slow and techical as well as adrenaline packed fast off-road, 50+km/h on pavement, carving at speed, fast cornering, riding up curbs and jumping them down, practicing emergency braking, etc.

Sure, every rider must consider the pros and cons of any mod before executing. But your comments were obviously backed up with zero experience and little knowledge on EUC tire systems and related risks. As such it doesn’t help people in getting educated or making good decisions.

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@mrelwood, The principles of physics don't care if it's an EUC or not. Before doing tire swaps I always want to know what I'm getting into, because my health is riding on the result, and I'm not the engineer who did the initial design, so haven't seen what they have.

I have a new respect for the 30+ MPH some people are doing on EUCs. If anything goes wrong, there's not much backup, other than protective gear mitigating the outcome.

 

I certainly wish you well, and also luck. (Often it's better to be lucky than skilled.)

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5 minutes ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

@mrelwood, The principles of physics don't care if it's an EUC or not.

They actually do, since the rims and tires of an EUC are different that of a car and a motorcycle.

5 minutes ago, WI_Hedgehog said:

Before doing tire swaps I always want to know what I'm getting into, because my health is riding on the result, and I'm not the engineer who did the initial design, so haven't seen what they have.

That is a good attitude. But be sure to check which aspects are relevant to a bicycle style tire and rim.

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On 3/26/2020 at 12:47 AM, mrelwood said:

 

I have bought all my tires from Aliexpress and Ebay. EUC shops only have the original spares for the models they sell, if any. Two things to note:

- Aliexpress and many Ebay tires usually don’t ship the same tread pattern that’s in the pictures. If you want a specific pattern, message the seller first.

- 16x2.50” is a very different size than 2.50-16”. The latter designation is a motorcycle standard and fits a 16” rim, so the actual tire diameter is 4” larger. Unfortunately even some sellers are unaware of this, and may ship the wrong size. Check wether the shop sells mostly bicycle or motorcycle stuff.

super helpful thanks!

do you have any stores you particularly like on ali or ebay?

I think im mostly concerned about getting an inner tube with the valve them that can go thru as usually they are bent. so not sure how to filter out those types

Edited by someguy152
updated info

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58 minutes ago, someguy152 said:

do you have any stores you particularly like on ali or ebay?

Ebay: ”kingstar-cn”. They’ve been great in communicating, and were able to source tires and sizes not even auctioned.

58 minutes ago, someguy152 said:

I think im mostly concerned about getting an inner tube with the valve them that can go thru as usually they are bent. so not sure how to filter out those types

”Bent valve” is what the sellers also call them.

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