help please my ks-18s only charging to 90%

[novazeus]

@KingSong69 i appreciate ur advice of cracking open both wheels, checking each individual pack, and then trying to charge the deficient pack individually, but i’m not gonna do all that work unless i absolutely have to..

[novazeus]

if it’s the software reading the voltage then it’s probably a kingsong glitch. their software will give me a top speed reading when it hasn’t moved. 

[US69]

10 minutes ago, novazeus said:

@KingSong69 i appreciate ur advice of cracking open both wheels, checking each individual pack, and then trying to charge the deficient pack individually, but i’m not gonna do all that work unless i absolutely have to..

You will not find whats wrong without doing so....as o no one in the hole world can say whats causing the defect.

As you said your chargers are over 67,2Volt......It CAN be the BMS or it CAN be the individual cells or it can be a resistance by the board(probably not) or the voltage Reader on the board could be defective(also probably not, as this doesnt go with the symptons you tell).

But no one can say WHAT of  those things it is without checking it. Period!

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by KingSong69

[novazeus]

3 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

You will not find whats wrong without doing so....as o no one in the hole world can say whats causing the defect.

As you said your chargers are over 67,2Volt......It CAN be the BMS or it CAN be the individual cells or it can be a resistance by the board(probably not) or the voltage Reader on the board could be defective(also probably not, as this doesnt go with the symptons you tell).

But no one can say WHAT of this those things without checking it. Period!

 

i suppose both wheels could have the same problem but two new wheels, different vendors, bought at the same time and reading lower voltages than what i’m guessing everybody else kingsong wheels read.

it’s not like i have a few other kingsong wheels to compare these two to. i have seen six wheels in person my whole 63 years on this planet, and they are the ones i bought. using the forum, i’m trying to see if anybody else has had this problem or is still having this problem. if kingsong monitored this forum, and could read english, they should pipe in, if they have a clue.

i’m presuming the bms, individuals cells, the control board and the voltage reader on the board, none of which repairable by me, kingsong not gonna do it, so opening the wheels up is a wasted exercise.

it’s like when i had that defective asus motherboard, i determined it was the motherboard but without a lot more knowledge and tools that i didn’t have, if asus wasn’t gonna take a stab at sending me one that worked, it would have been a wasted exercise. 

i guess i will contact kingsong no matter how bad u think their customer service is. if they were smart, they’d take a stab at getting me sorted out, if needed. like i said, if they are only charging to 90% and 93%, that is better for the batteries, and i don’t need the range, the only issue would be if i sold one or both to somebody else.

[novazeus]

22 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

 

As you said your chargers are over 67,2Volt......It CAN be the BMS or it CAN be the individual cells or it can be a resistance by the board(probably not) or the voltage Reader on the board could be defective(also probably not, as this doesnt go with the symptons you tell).

remember, this is times two. i have two kingsong wheels out of the thousands they sold worldwide, and i’m the extremely lucky one to get the only two defective ones?

logically, statiscally, to me, this does not make sense.

[US69]

6 minutes ago, novazeus said:

guess i will contact kingsong no matter how bad u think their customer service is. if they were smart, they’d take a stab at getting me sorted o

Again:

i did not say the KS customer support is bad....

they will just give you none at all because you bought your wheels on AliExpress!

They just don’t support this and will send you to your seller!

[US69]

3 minutes ago, novazeus said:

remember, this is times two. i have two kingsong wheels out of the thousands they sold worldwide, and i’m the extremely lucky one to get the only two defective ones?

logically, statiscally, to me, this does not make sense.

To me this also makes no sense, that’s why I still guess it’s user error :-)

[novazeus]

all four of my segway/ninebot wheels read 100% charged.btw. i’m pretty sure the kingsong wheels never read 100% charged. 

[US69]

14 minutes ago, novazeus said:

like i said, if they are only charging to 90% and 93%, that is better for the batteries, and i don’t need the range, the only issue would be if i sold one or both to somebody else

Unfortunately charging to 90% is only good, when you top up to 100% all 10 or 20 charges...cause the battery’s NEED to be balanced, which they only do on the last 5%! If they divide to much...it gets dangerous 

[novazeus]

2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

To me this also makes no sense, that’s why I still guess it’s user error :-)

u claim u don’t work for kingsong but that does sound like a manufacturers scripted response. 

have u ever heard the saying “do a good job and if ur lucky, the customer might tell one or two people, f**k up and the customer will tell the world”.

i’m not opposed to getting to the bottom of things. i sued ford motor company over one of their defective products. during litigation they did a very costly recall on every vehicle involved. i’m bound by the settlement not to discuss the outcome of my lawsuit.

[US69]

7 minutes ago, novazeus said:

all four of my segway/ninebot wheels read 100% charged.btw. i’m pretty sure the kingsong wheels never read 100% charged. 

Yes, sure...

i just stop here...makes no sense at all giving you any good tips!

contact Kingsong, good luck!

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, KingSong69 said:

to much...it gets dangerous 

like how? explosion? cut out? please elaborate.

[novazeus]

i don’t think it matters if i bought my wheels on aliexpress or not, which they are still selling on aliexpress btw, and i’m pretty sure kingsong is still selling wheels to these vendors. if kingsong won’t help out a big dealer like @Jason McNeil by sending him a new board and he has to eat it, i doubt kingsong would help me, but we’ll see.

[Master Blaster]

@novazeus, yo......

Hey you had asked me previously if my two wheels were charging to 100% (16S & 18S).......so I have a follow up for you. I ended up with three different 67.2 V chargers, so I noticed the other day on my 18S that two of the chargers will top of my wheel to the point that either the KingSong app or Wheel Log both show 100%, but on one of my chargers it only gets the wheel up to reporting 98% - tried a couple times with same result. So it seems statistically improbable, but it my be the chargers. I would seriously doubt that your having a battery issue with such a new wheel.

Now that I know one of my chargers doesn’t quite get the job done I am using one of the other two that I have when I need to fully top of and balance the cells.

You might look into a charge doctor as others have suggested, they can be a little confusing to set up at first, but maybe you can glean some insight by down loading the data from the charge doctor into your PC. Just a thought.

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, Master Blaster said:

@novazeus, yo......

Hey you had asked me previously if my two wheels were charging to 100% (16S & 18S).......so I have a follow up for you. I ended up with three different 67.2 V chargers, so I noticed the other day on my 18S that two of the chargers will top of my wheel to the point that either the KingSong app or Wheel Log both show 100%, but on one of my chargers it only gets the wheel up to reporting 98% - tried a couple times with same result. So it seems statistically improbable, but it my be the chargers. I would seriously doubt that your having a battery issue with such a new wheel.

Now that I know one of my chargers doesn’t quite get the job done I am using one of the other two that I have when I need to fully top of and balance the cells.

You might look into a charge doctor as others have suggested, they can be a little confusing to set up at first, but maybe you can glean some insight by down loading the data from the charge doctor into your PC. Just a thought.

thank you. i just confirmed the voltage readings using the new multimete i bought for fixing issues on my half a million dollar boat. i’m not bragging just to put things in perspective of prioritizing. my other multimeter which is 27 years old was acting a little funky but one charger is putting out 67.4 the other 67.8. 

i apologize to all if u are offended by me questioning ur advice. u gotta remember, i’m 63 almost 64 years old, pretty well rounded mechanically, started working at diebold at 19 years old(1973), (vault doors, safes, alarm systems, tabs or now called atm’s)certified contractor and have owned hvac companies. but the biggest deal obviously was being told by moffitt cancer center in tampa i only had three months to live in 2014(didn’t do their drugs or take their advice either)and i’m pretty sure i’m still alive. not only that, but i’m living and managing a 325 cattle ranch with a hundred plus animals, living in a non converted cargo container and not taking any prescription drugs. so yeah, i don’t take the first advice i hear and run with it. i don’t care if ur the direct descendent of faraday, if ur answer doesn’t make logical sense, i’ll keep looking. 

advice of disassembling the wheels and troubleshooting, in my particular situation, for this amount of value or money, is ludricrous. i have a life. for now at least. someday i’ll crack open the 18s and poke around, if and only if, i have time. 

puleeze, if there are any kingsong wheel users out there reading this, i’d love to hear from u as to, charger output at no load and what is ur voltage after leaving it on the brick after it turns green. i’m not an electronics engineer but i’m pretty f**king smart and if i can hear from others about there ks wheels, or if kingsong could respond, that would be great.

if they are safe to ride, i’ll continue riding them until something better comes along. like i said, what sucks about this hobby/activity/product is there is nobody else nearby to compare to. 

tampa bay has a population of three plus million people and i know of two other wheel riders in this area, so unfortunately, trying to glean info has to be done by forum. 

@Master Blaster if u get a chance, if u have a meter, could u please check the output vooltages of all ur chargers and let me know? thanks.

[Jason McNeil]

@novazeus about your charging/battery problem, there are I believe, three possibilities here:

1. The reverse diode for protecting the charging port introduces about 1v of resistance, meaning that if you go into the KS App (or WheelLog) & it has a voltage of 66v, then it is perfectly normal & there is nothing to worry about;
2. If the reported voltage is 62-63v, then it is characteristic that one of the cells in the pack has failed. Even though the cells are configured in a multiple parallels, if one cells in any of the packs is a dud, it will prevent the entire pack from reaching the 66v
3. The third possibility, which I described in the topic you made reference to, is an extremely rare problem where the control-board introduces a larger resistance between the charging input to the board & the output wires to the pack. In the only case that I have witnessed, the difference was nearly 10v

3 hours ago, novazeus said:

f kingsong won’t help out a big dealer like @Jason McNeil by sending him a new board and he has to eat it, i doubt kingsong would help me, but we’ll see.

We're a pretty large Customer of King Song's, I'm confident we're going to be able to get warranty replacement parts; the main point of frustration was their failure to act on a manufacturing defect that wasn't caught in QC; taking off for three weeks on the interminably long CNY, & further demonstrating brilliance in pushing out that disastrous App release without having anyone to deal with the fallout for nearly four weeks. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Jason McNeil

[novazeus]

thanks @Jason McNeil for ur insight. does it seem weird to u that i’d have two wheels exhibiting this problem?

here’s a screenshot of my ks-16s just off charger not ridden. amazing how it already has a top speed of 2mph registered.

please ask kingsong to get their app people to look into this.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/156449254@N08/hV5NPk

[novazeus]

here’s a screenshot of my ks-18s 

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Marty Backe
Fixed image link

[novazeus]

i can’t get pictures to imbed through flickr for some reason.

[novazeus]

so ks-18s goes to 64.46 and the ks-16s 64.77 volts if these clues help.

[novazeus]

22 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

@novazeus about your charging/battery problem, there are I believe, three possibilities here:

1. The reverse diode for protecting the charging port introduces about 1v of resistance, meaning that if you govinto the KS App (or WheelLog) & it has a voltage of 66v, then it is perfectly normal & there is nothing to worry about;
2. If the reported voltage is 62-63v, then it is characteristic that one of the cells in the pack has failed. Even though the cells are configured in a multiple parallels, if one cells in any of the packs is a dud, it will prevent the entire pack from reaching the 66v
3. The third possibility, which I described in the topic you made reference to, is an extremely rare problem where the control-board introduces a larger resistance between the charging input to the board & the output wires to the pack. In the only case that I have witnessed, the difference was nearly 10v

We're a pretty large Customer of King Song's, I'm confident we're going to be able to get warranty replacement parts; the main point of frustration was their failure to act on a manufacturing defect that wasn't caught in QC; taking off for three weeks on the interminably long CNY, & further demonstrating brilliance in pushing out that disastrous App release without having anyone to deal with the fallout for nearly four weeks. 

so, if i’m reading u correctly, it’s not number 1 or 2 and probably not 3. the way my brain works is, if their app was so shoddily put out it’s giving a reading of top speed before the wheel has moved, maybe the app isn’t reporting the voltage correctly?

my point is, tearing into the wheels, diagnosing the problems, is a useless exercise, unless i’m willing to spend the time and money to fix them. i’d rather figure out how to revive dji’s batteries, like one of my barely used inspire batteries that cost $200. if i’m gonna exercise my brain, might as well make money. there’s a lot more dji batteries out there funked up than there are wheels in the world. i’m too old and supposedly too sick to start being an electrical engineer, but i will if i have to.

is the bms on the board or is it buried in the pack? is there a schematic anywhere on these ks wheels?

[novazeus]

and btw jason, u should move a little further north to tampa, imho, because i think tampa would give u a larger walk in market, plus waaay safer.

[novazeus]

 

i suppose the missing 2 volts could be lost in the balancing. i put it in learning mode trying to get away from parasitic losses.

Edited February 27, 2018 by novazeus

[Marty Backe]

8 hours ago, novazeus said:

here’s a screenshot of my ks-18s 

 

I fixed the image link for you. When at your Flickr image, click the "share" link and use the provided link to paste into this forum.

[novazeus]

8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I fixed the image link for you. When at your Flickr image, click the "share" link and use the provided link to paste into this forum.

thanks. i’ve tried this “insert other media” button down below and putting the url in there but it turns pink, and nothing.

yeah that insert other media doesn’t seem to work with the flickr thing. pasting the address into the body did tho.