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Charging the S1 to 63 volts


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Have any of our North American S1 owners tried charging their wheels to the true 100% capacity (63v) yet?  I know the MiniPro has no issue with this, although the battery firmware forever remembers it and stops displaying the capacity in mAh.  But I haven't tried it with my S1 yet.  Since the S1 in newer than the MiniPro I'm not sure if they have added some preventative measure in the BMS to stop the batteries being charged to their true maximum.  I suspect not, but as I have not yet been brave enough to try it I don't know. 

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On ‎16‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 3:13 AM, Knifa said:

I wonder if you stuck the S1 batteries in an S2, they'd charge to full capacity?

I would imagine so.  If they didn't, they would probably have to have BMSs that limit the voltage to 59.5 rather than allowing the full 63v.  And if that was the case, I don't think it would make sense for Segway to supply 59.5v chargers to Americans and 63v chargers to every other country, as it would be the BMSs doing the voltage limiting.  So I think it's very likely that if I use my 63v charger my S2 batteries will charge to full capacity and get me a few more kilometres per charge.  I just haven't been ready to try it yet as it's so new, but I probably will soon.    

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  • 3 weeks later...
22 hours ago, novazeus said:

cool. what gains have you seen?

The range is extended.  The app indicates 32km of range rather than 27.  I haven't tested the range yet because it's STILL too cold for long rides (5-6 months of snow and ice and filth; don't move to Ontario), but if it's anything like my MiniPro, charging to 63v should get a lightweight rider 5 or 6 extra km per charge on mostly flat pathways.  Whatever range the S2 gets, the S1 should get when charged to 63v.  Actually, the S1 may get a bit more range than the S2 because of its restricted top speed keeping the rider cruising at only 18-19kph. 

Edited by RooMiniPro
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9 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said:

The range is extended.  The app indicates 32km of range rather than 27.  I haven't tested the range yet because it's STILL too cold for long rides (5-6 months of snow and ice and filth; don't move to Ontario), but if it's anything like my MiniPro, charging to 63v should get a lightweight rider 5 or 6 extra km per charge on mostly flat pathways.  Whatever range the S2 gets, the S1 should get when charged to 63v.  Actually, the S1 may get a bit more range than the S2 because of its restricted top speed keeping the rider cruising at only 18-19kph. 

now if we can get a russian to crack the code, for the extra 2.5 mph, we’ll have s2’s at a bargain price.

how did u charge it, ie what charger?

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2 minutes ago, novazeus said:

now if we can get a russian to crack the code, for the extra 2.5 mph, we’ll have s2’s at a bargain price.

how did u charge it, ie what charger?

Yes, that is the dream. 

I used my own DIY portable charger.  But you can use a 63V Ninebot One E+ charger (if you change the plug on the end). 

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3 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said:

Yes, that is the dream. 

I used my own DIY portable charger.  But you can use a 63V Ninebot One E+ charger (if you change the plug on the end). 

i’ve got an s2 charge that came with my s2. it’s 63volts, the e+ is less than that. 

i’m not interested in additional range but that extra 2.5 mph is more comfortable riding.

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3 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i’ve got an s2 charge that came with my s2. it’s 63volts, the e+ is less than that. 

i’m not interested in additional range but that extra 2.5 mph is more comfortable riding.

My E+ came with a 63v charger.

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1 minute ago, RooMiniPro said:

My E+ came with a 63v charger.

 

so weird how they play with their different chargers and voltages. be nice if they’d have a forum where u could ask technical questions. that’s the one i got with my e+.

68099E43-EDE6-4E32-ADB2-FD39AA465A06.jpeg.113cb3bbb3cc8e9af61d79916c35ab3f.jpeg

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  • 1 month later...

im just charging my 9bS1 now to 63V too, with a DC-DC converter (input from a HP laptop 19.5 V,  230W Power Supply)

Set the output to 63V

Charged until 62.75 V and showing 32.4 km remaining milage

Since i dont have the correct 4pin plug for now (still in china post) , i used a molex female on the 2 pin + and -

This is a cheap upgrade to get a bit more km, thank you for sharing this

 

9b1s1_1.jpg

9b1s1_2.jpg

Edited by Lavabo
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On 3/13/2018 at 2:44 AM, RooMiniPro said:

My E+ came with a 63v charger.

Apparently that 60-61V charge "thing"  is only in the US?!

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1 minute ago, US69 said:

Apparently that 60-61V charge "thing"  is only in the US?!

Im in Canada so i guess its an north america option .  I got the Ninebot when it went on special on Amazon.ca at 399$ CAD (thank you redflagdeal)

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2 hours ago, Lavabo said:

Im in Canada so i guess its an north america option .  I got the Ninebot when it went on special on Amazon.ca at 399$ CAD (thank you redflagdeal)

Wow! that was a bargain.

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Hello, i have a one e+ with 61v black charger, and when its fully charged, the app says estimated 28 km. If i charge with a charger with 63v output, can i get a bit more km??

i have a white charger 63v of mini pro, but the LEMO connector its different.

thanks

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On 3/13/2018 at 1:18 AM, RooMiniPro said:

The range is extended.  The app indicates 32km of range rather than 27.  I haven't tested the range yet because it's STILL too cold for long rides (5-6 months of snow and ice and filth; don't move to Ontario), but if it's anything like my MiniPro, charging to 63v should get a lightweight rider 5 or 6 extra km per charge on mostly flat pathways.  Whatever range the S2 gets, the S1 should get when charged to 63v.  Actually, the S1 may get a bit more range than the S2 because of its restricted top speed keeping the rider cruising at only 18-19kph. 

There very well could be issues later on with the longevity of the battery life.

Lithium batteries deteriorate much more quickly when taken to full charge regularly. I hope you ran them down a bit after you charged them fully as leaving them fully charged is even worse than charging them full.

I even get warnings in my Tesla car if I charge it to 100% twice in a row and on the odd occasion I need 100% I'm supposed to time the charge to finish just before I drive it so as not to leave it fully charged for any length of time.

So is it worth it for 5K extra?

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14 hours ago, Gimlet said:

There very well could be issues later on with the longevity of the battery life.

Lithium batteries deteriorate much more quickly when taken to full charge regularly. I hope you ran them down a bit after you charged them fully as leaving them fully charged is even worse than charging them full.

I even get warnings in my Tesla car if I charge it to 100% twice in a row and on the odd occasion I need 100% I'm supposed to time the charge to finish just before I drive it so as not to leave it fully charged for any length of time.

So is it worth it for 5K extra?

It's worth it for some people.  They will be done with their Sn before the batteries are done, and it not only the extra 5K but the increased speed since the battery does not get as low when they are ready to recharge the speed limit is still higher than it would have been had they started at a lower capacity.  It's not for everyone.  On an EUC it is much easier to time the charge so it's not sitting for ever at full-charge, and people don't leave them plugged in all the time (at least I hope they don't).

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On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:54 AM, Gimlet said:

There very well could be issues later on with the longevity of the battery life.

Lithium batteries deteriorate much more quickly when taken to full charge regularly. I hope you ran them down a bit after you charged them fully as leaving them fully charged is even worse than charging them full.

I even get warnings in my Tesla car if I charge it to 100% twice in a row and on the odd occasion I need 100% I'm supposed to time the charge to finish just before I drive it so as not to leave it fully charged for any length of time.

So is it worth it for 5K extra?

I think you might be seeing this the wrong way, like we are pushing the batteries beyond their limits and taking a risk.  Actually, the issue is that the supplied charger is designed to only allow an 80% charge, which is rare for EUCs, Electric skateboards, and most consumer electronics.  Most devices like this charge to 100% or very close to 100%.  Outside of North America, Segway supply this very same wheel with the 63v charger which charges the battery to 100% and gives the range it was designed to offer.  By using the lower voltage charger and getting only to 80%, it's true that we should in theory get more charge cycles out of our batteries (all other variables being equal).  But, with less range some of us will need to charge more often, kind of negating the extra charge cycle benefit.  So we work around the geographically imposed restriction and charge to the true capacity that the battery was designed for and enjoy the range that it was meant to deliver.  Again, it's only North Americans that Segway feel must be given restricted units.  They dumb down their products to deliver less performance within North America.  I have asked them why they do this but their tech support guy knows less about these machines than we do.  One guess is that with the USA being such a sue-happy country, they are afraid of legal disputes when stupid people inevitably ruin their wheels or hurt themselves so they dumb down the speed and set the charger to only peak at 80%, making the wheel safer to store, safer to ride downhill after a full charge and last longer even when not looked after properly by the general public who don't know anything about lithium batteries.

The Tesla is designed to charge to about 80% to extend battery life.  The batteries are so incredibly expensive to replace, that it makes more sense to aim for extended charge cycle count and keep them healthy for several years longer rather than to aim for maximum range at the cost of reduced lifespan.  But on an EUC, most of us are happy to get 3 or 4 years out of our batteries.  I paid $370 CAD including taxes for my S1 and if it lasts 3 or 4 years I will consider it a good value. 

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On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:15 PM, FreeRide said:

I...the increased speed since the battery does not get as low when they are ready to recharge the speed limit is still higher than it would have been had they started at a lower capacity.  

This is a great point.  Starting with a higher voltage means less time spent in speed-restricted mode as the wheel nears the lower end of its charge level.

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  • 2 weeks later...
38 minutes ago, nte said:

Can you share the link to buy the 4pin plug?

The connector for the S1 is GX12-4. 

I’ve use this from Amazon to make an S1 car charger and it worked as expected. 

Edited by Rotciv
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/20/2018 at 9:13 PM, nte said:

Can you share the link to buy the 4pin plug?

As for myself, did not need to buy a 4 pin, i just used  2 molex  female wire, wrapped , and then you just need to be cautious to plug on the right polarity.

Then using my dc-dc charger (B900w Charger)

But now that i have a Gotway ACMv2 im not using much the ninebot ...

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  • 1 year later...
On 5/3/2018 at 3:38 PM, Lavabo said:

im just charging my 9bS1 now to 63V too, with a DC-DC converter (input from a HP laptop 19.5 V,  230W Power Supply)

Set the output to 63V

Charged until 62.75 V and showing 32.4 km remaining milage

Since i dont have the correct 4pin plug for now (still in china post) , i used a molex female on the 2 pin + and -

This is a cheap upgrade to get a bit more km, thank you for sharing this

 

9b1s1_1.jpg

9b1s1_2.jpg

Salut Lavabo -  bonjour de DieppeNB! Where did you get that step up buck converter? Amazon is not cheap for a drock that can go up to 63V ... Also I noticed you are leaving 2 pins open with the molex setup. 2 open pins is OK while charging? My S1 does not give me good mileage - maybe cuz I ran the russian firmware hack to run at 30kph - but machine reports a range of 27km and I`m lucky if I get 12km. So if I can charge more fully may give a little more range. I used to see lots of used EUC on kijiji ( montreal,toronto,vancouver) - I started with a 9botC for 350$ then I found an S1 for 350$ - but I am not finding many used wheels anymore. Not sure why? I am the only person in Dieppe NB with an EUC so not much of a community. Both the wheels I got came with underinflated tires. When I asked the guys selling why they selling, they say too hard to learn. But when I try the wheel after shipped, I see the wheel is unrideable because the tire is almost flat! Poor guys were trying to learn on a wheel that could not be ridden :-( Ah ben... I hope you are doing OK in the covid craziness - I see you are in Jean Chretien hometown - I miss that scrapper from Shawinigan!!!

Cheers,

Armand

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

salut

le dc-dc converter de chine pour 22$
B900W Input 8-60V to 10-120V 900W DC Converter

Pour les pins, je pense ta besoin juste de 2 sur les 4 du connecteurs je me rappel pu trop jai vendue ma roue!!

Join le groupe Facebook Quebec wheelers tu verra surement plus de roues usagée a vendre

Mais bon comme tu va avoir une V8 le dc coverter te sera pas utile la! :)  Vend la ninebot apres ca tu va voir tu veut pas rouler juste 20 km!

Oui Jean Chretien, i like this lads too !! he lives near lac des piles/St-Flore- follow the rcmp cars haha

Edited by Lavabo
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