gotway wheels. Riding modes benefits and cons?

[Shad0z]

so i just wanted to start a thread about the pros and cons of the modes on the tesla. there are three modes 

Soft, medium and Strong

so what are the pros and cons of each mode?

how does every mode affect riding over bumps, acceleration, and voltage

 

i personally like strong mode it feels solid and you dont feel like youre getting affected by the bups and stuff as much

while soft mode kind of gives this feeling of being "in sync" i dont know how to explain but the wheel gets affected more by your movements and thus feels more like a part of you

not that hard mode doesnt respond but soft mode gives you this "feedback" and feels conected while hard mode gives it like this feeling of powering over everything unaffected

 

so what are your thoughts?

see it like a survey. im trying to get some input on this, especially tesla owners

Edited February 14, 2018 by Shad0z

[Electroman]

Yes hard indeed to explain in a language where you feel verbally handicapped and so limited to basics in their most crude form, or at least that is me so if the case I can absolutely relate.

But in all honesty, I am not even experienced enough to give any details about soft/medium, have not ridden more than just flipped between them in apartment more or less when learning trying to distinguish between them but already there I realized soft or even medium is not for me, in fact I go further and wish my hard mode (ACM 820Wh) was soft or at least medium leaving me with  a harder mode still to choose from.

Medium feels to swampy to ride and all commands feel like slow mo, the soft mode is far from usable to me it's more like trying to balance on a soaped deck in the middle of the ocean and a storm whipping the waves hard, I suppose it is also a question of rider weight and I am on the heavy side I suppose.

[dmethvin]

On 2/14/2018 at 3:15 PM, Shad0z said:

soft mode gives you this "feedback" and feels connected while hard mode gives it like this feeling of powering over everything unaffected

I think all wheels that have hard/soft modes are like this. In the hard mode the wheel reacts very quickly to any deviation from vertical. That makes it feel very firm and upright but also makes the ride more bumpy. The soft mode takes a little more time to get vertical after a lean forward or backward which feels softer and less jarring. If the ride gets too soft though you can lose control because the wheel doesn't react fast enough to keep you sufficiently vertical. Also some (most?) wheels adjust the firmness based on speed so that you get a softer ride at low speed but it firms up at higher speeds when you would not want the pedals to dip as much. 

One drawback of the firm mode is that it uses more power to maintain that strict vertical posture at all times. 

[Shad0z]

i think i like soft mode the most because it gives the wheel a kind of shock absoption feeling

after trying hard and soft mode for periods of time i now made my decision

[Shad0z]

but i also love hard mode.. What do i choose??? I think on the tesla the "strong" mode shows more of the benefits that the tesla has and it feels so powerful on the hard mode damn. I think i will keep it on this mode..

[Flying W]

Shad0z, old topic I know, but I was curious on what mode you settled on. 

On my 16s I really like medium,  but soft is easier on my bad knee, and in soft mode my feet stay on the pedals better during surprise pavement lips (1 to 2 inch square bumps). 

I rode in hard mode the first 90miles, then med for 250 miles and loved it. When I re injured my bad knee I switched to soft. Did not think of get used to soft mode at all but I'm at about 100 miles in soft mode and l like how it handles the small bumps. Biggest complaint about soft mode is the loose feel when you at cruising speed (not accelerating or breaking). Your feet can move a little each way without the wheel reacting and ththaththat doesnt feel well haha. 

[mrelwood]

KingSong and Gotway have a different type of softness in the modes. Newer Gotways like my MSX are rock hard at first in every mode, and the softer modes only lean slowly in the direction of acceleration. Meaning, when you first start to accelerate, KingSong soft lets the pedals tilt more the harder you accelerate, while Gotway soft stays rock hard. During the acceleration, KingSong behaves the same as in the beginning, but Gotway behavior changes. It now starts to slowly tilt forward.

KingSong soft (and medium) is better for shock absorbing, since Gotway soft is still hard for fast movements.

For an 18” wheel the KingSong behavior is better, as it helps getting more leverage that the big wheel requires. On MSX I have to lean further myself. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by mrelwood

[Shad0z]

15 hours ago, Flying W said:

Shad0z, old topic I know, but I was curious on what mode you settled on. 

On my 16s I really like medium,  but soft is easier on my bad knee, and in soft mode my feet stay on the pedals better during surprise pavement lips (1 to 2 inch square bumps). 

I rode in hard mode the first 90miles, then med for 250 miles and loved it. When I re injured my bad knee I switched to soft. Did not think of get used to soft mode at all but I'm at about 100 miles in soft mode and l like how it handles the small bumps. Biggest complaint about soft mode is the loose feel when you at cruising speed (not accelerating or breaking). Your feet can move a little each way without the wheel reacting and ththaththat doesnt feel well haha. 

I settled on soft mode. But as i noticed soft mode is different on different wheels. Kingsong and z10 feel like if you dp slight leans it leans. But on gotway it stays flat and the amount it leans depends on how much you push. 

I settled on soft

EDIT. I notied mrelwood explained the same but much better. but the gptway soft mode still is good for shock absorption. Especially when jumping and landing on the pedals and they tilt more with the feet. I think the kingsong soft mode can feel a little too bouncy at times honestly

Edited October 25, 2018 by Shad0z

[mrelwood]

The pedal hardness is of course a combination of several parameters, and I don’t doubt that the Gotway soft also helps with bump absorption. What I wrote is the most apparent aspect of the differences between MSX and 16S.

The KingSong actual soft mode feels like a joke, waaaay too soft for me to ride, but the medium was a fair compromise.

I use medium on the MSX as well, since it helps with braking from fast speeds compared to the hard mode. One con in the medium is that during a steep bumpy incline the MSX tilts forward at bumps, and stays that way for a while. So it feels like the wheel is losing power, or tire slipping. Just had to learn to trust it.

All wheels should have atleast one slider for the hardness adjustment, not just three modes. Switch for spongy/medium/boaty and a slider for the amount would make every wheel feel just like the owner wishes.

[Flying W]

Sounds like Gotway soft mode would be right up my alley. I really dont like the how far the 16s tilts forward to back without any response in soft mode. When I first got the wheel I couldn't ride it in soft mode at all. 

Once my knee feels normal-ish again I'll go back to medium as that is my favorite. 

I think muscles still need to get stronger too. I'm thankful that I stumbled on these wheels since it gets me out of the house. And the motorcycle injuries stacked up I got more and more sloth-like and now I'm paying that back. One of the reasons for me commuting to work was to make sure I was on the wheel daily. In 3 months that small change had taken 20lbs off my knees, 30 more to go (I'll be happy with 15 more) and the slight shock absorption of soft mode should not be needed. 

Mrelwood, Shad0z, any tips for keeping the feet in contact with the pedals over sharp edge bumps like pavement changes or imbeded small rocks? I've tried squeezing with my knees but that takes away my "suspension". I have noticed that I do land back on the wheel in almost the same spot like you would on a dirt bike.  

I do agree, KS soft mode does feel like a joke, especially calling it learning mode.  My dad has less than 5 miles on a wheel. I had him try it and it was not ride able for him. He can take off and ride as long as he want in medium. 

[Flying W]

Just did a small experiment with some left over baby bumper. I taped a strip to the pedal stop so it gets squeezed between. Took off down the bumpy side walk I ride daily on the way to work and to my surprise my feet did not lose contact with the pedals on medium ride mode, and it didnt hurt my knee as bad. . Kind of felt like the shock absorption of soft mode but the ride ability of medium. 

The baby bumper was just to test the concept,  now to look for thin elastomer sheet or something similar that can take the constant pressure and still provide a tiny bit of absorption.  

So happy to not need soft mode anymore!

[mrelwood]

I experimented a lot with different materials between the pedal hinge for shock absorption on the 16S. Durability/longetivity is the main issue, but perhaps the best I had in there was cut from a thick gel insole.

But I’m a bit confused about you losing grip momentarily. Sounds like you either ride with your knees locked straight, or with a very high tire pressure, or with bad shoes that offer no shock absorbing. If one of those is the case, therein might be your main issue.

[Electroman]

I know of only one mode, the one I want is missing and called uber I think? No not riding around with people on my back for $.

Non existing so much suffice bumping it up as high as I can, yes advantages riding softer do exist just like pumping less air into the tire but I ride around it simply cause the advantages are so huge for me and my style of riding this hard.

[Shad0z]

On 10/25/2018 at 7:31 PM, Flying W said:

Sounds like Gotway soft mode would be right up my alley. I really dont like the how far the 16s tilts forward to back without any response in soft mode. When I first got the wheel I couldn't ride it in soft mode at all. 

Once my knee feels normal-ish again I'll go back to medium as that is my favorite. 

I think muscles still need to get stronger too. I'm thankful that I stumbled on these wheels since it gets me out of the house. And the motorcycle injuries stacked up I got more and more sloth-like and now I'm paying that back. One of the reasons for me commuting to work was to make sure I was on the wheel daily. In 3 months that small change had taken 20lbs off my knees, 30 more to go (I'll be happy with 15 more) and the slight shock absorption of soft mode should not be needed. 

Mrelwood, Shad0z, any tips for keeping the feet in contact with the pedals over sharp edge bumps like pavement changes or imbeded small rocks? I've tried squeezing with my knees but that takes away my "suspension". I have noticed that I do land back on the wheel in almost the same spot like you would on a dirt bike.  

I do agree, KS soft mode does feel like a joke, especially calling it learning mode.  My dad has less than 5 miles on a wheel. I had him try it and it was not ride able for him. He can take off and ride as long as he want in medium. 

Best technique is to make your knees do as much shock absorption as possible. Thats what keeps your feet on the pedals. Honestly i have no idea else. I see people jumping flying from bumps and while i go down a steep curb im almost falling off. I still havent got a clue other than trying to absorb the shock the most possible

[Hermes]

One thing you might try is “sticking” the landing. Often when I am proactively negotiating a bump or coming off a curb I apply a downward force that limits air time and reduces rebound (and using bent knees for shock absorption). Remember, riding an EUC is a very physical activity. Try exaggerating your body movements so you can feel and thus control the forces at play.

[Flying W]

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I experimented a lot with different materials between the pedal hinge for shock absorption on the 16S. Durability/longetivity is the main issue, but perhaps the best I had in there was cut from a thick gel insole.

But I’m a bit confused about you losing grip momentarily. Sounds like you either ride with your knees locked straight, or with a very high tire pressure, or with bad shoes that offer no shock absorbing. If one of those is the case, therein might be your main issue.

I found your thread where you had tried different materials and just finished replacing the bumper padding with gel insoles.  I have plenty of insoles in old shoes. I have not rode it yet but I think it is going to work really well. 

My knees aren't locked but I dont sit as low on road as I do off road. The only time my feet bounce off (very slight and not enough to have the position change very much) is on the sidewalk i take every morning. Each cement slab is a different height making for very sharp bumps. Even the baby bumpers were enough to keep my feet in contact today. The even better part was how my knee felt when I got to work. I didnt wear the support brace either just to see and it still felt 10 times better.  

As I get more miles under my belt the muscles around my bad knee should get stronger which will help me keep a larger bend as well. 

In other news I just received my new flex meter wrist guards....and tested them in my first belly flop the same day Haha.  I found a sand pocket on a dirt trail. The wrist guards proved very effective.  Whe. The wheel hit the sand it went right then 90 degrees left and even with that tiny bit of warning I was down quick. I have a much better idea of how bad a cut off would be. I've had the pleasure of eating dookie off pretty much everything with wheels so thankfully I also have a lot of gear!

 

[Electroman]

14 hours ago, Shad0z said:

Best technique is to make your knees do as much shock absorption as possible. Thats what keeps your feet on the pedals. Honestly i have no idea else. I see people jumping flying from bumps and while i go down a steep curb im almost falling off. I still havent got a clue other than trying to absorb the shock the most possible

Absolutely agree, knees must do the work, built in absorption.

A week ago I did a terrible mistake that could have costed me a lot, this was likely the worst one yet in terms of stumbling around trying to find grip under me and get control of the wheel, was extremely violent and when people say heart raced out of their chest or something to that effect, well I sensed that but this was on steroids lol.

I am again riding the beeps hard so closer to 60km/h, my eyes are wet no glasses and see a line in the road, did not think anymore of it looks like 2D line painted and I cross it, when the whole wheel take off and try to violent kick me off (upward and forward) I realized my mistake and it's amazing how fast the brain can connecting something when your health depend on it really?

I of course by now understood it's not a line but a high curb, my angle of attack over it was pretty bad but dos that matter at that speed, a very stressed full blown adrenaline poring memory cause feeling that and realize your mistake at that speed do send the body into some wild, wild emotional mode for sure, hard to explain but not just the usual fast and slightly delayed release of the neurotransmitter hormone.

I was lucky to, the curb had a slight  chamfer, or beveled rot not just 90 degree all around which I am glad for cause it was a high sucker too, ohh well anyways point is... Thank God for those knees working, without them I would have had a proper, proper high speed crash and I believe really hurt.

[Chili D]

On 10/25/2018 at 8:26 AM, mrelwood said:

 

The KingSong actual soft mode feels like a joke, waaaay too soft for me to ride, but the medium was a fair compromise.

 

A joke? What does that mean? You think they were being funny when designing their soft mode to be soft? Sounds like the desired result was achieved  

 OP- I don’t have. GW, but I use  Soft (aka learning mode on KS16S) for cruising because it allows the slight play from vertical and it doesn’t translate bumps to my legs as much. Switch to Medium or Expert for quick control situations and riding.  

[mrelwood]

10 hours ago, Chili D said:

A joke? What does that mean? You think they were being funny when designing their soft mode to be soft?

After thousands of km and trying 8 different wheels on different settings, the 16S soft mode feels so much softer than anything else (perhaps the 3 year old MCM soft mode excluded), it feels like a balancing challenge instead of a riding mode. Like ”let’s see if you can hold on to THIS one!”.

I don’t think the manufacturer was being funny, but it does feel funny to ride. What their motive was for doing a mode like that is unclear to me. I think a mode halfway between the soft and medium would’ve been a lot more useful instead, for most people.

[Flying W]

20 hours ago, Chili D said:

 OP- I don’t have. GW, but I use  Soft (aka learning mode on KS16S) for cruising because it allows the slight play from vertical and it doesn’t translate bumps to my legs as much. 

My only gripe with soft on 16s is how that slight play feels when your at a steady speed, feel like something is loose for lack of a better way to describe it. Bump absorption is great though. 

If you haven't already tried it, put a piece of gel insole in between the the pedal stop. The angle change is minimal when your on the pedals but the bump and vibration transmission is greatly improved. If you have some old insoles and double sided tape it's free to try. 

The effect is similar to reducing high speed compression dampening (shock shaft velocity not vehicle speed) on a dirt bike while keeping tight low speed dampening.  

@Mrelwood has a good thread on this with pictures. If anyone has messed up knees, or pain in the knees after riding I highly encourage you to look up his thread. It's free or very cheap to try and takes all of about 5min, reversible in seconds if you dont like it. 

Prior to this mod my knee pain was getting worse and i though i may have to go back to driving to work. 

[Shad0z]

On 10/27/2018 at 10:05 PM, Chili D said:

A joke? What does that mean? You think they were being funny when designing their soft mode to be soft? Sounds like the desired result was achieved  

 OP- I don’t have. GW, but I use  Soft (aka learning mode on KS16S) for cruising because it allows the slight play from vertical and it doesn’t translate bumps to my legs as much. Switch to Medium or Expert for quick control situations and riding.  

if you ride a gotway. then you will realize the whole spectrum. hard mode on the ks16 feels like soft mode on tesla.

when i use soft mode on kingsong its like im about to fall off. like im balancing on a basketball

[Shad0z]

On 10/27/2018 at 7:30 PM, Electroman said:

Absolutely agree, knees must do the work, built in absorption.

A week ago I did a terrible mistake that could have costed me a lot, this was likely the worst one yet in terms of stumbling around trying to find grip under me and get control of the wheel, was extremely violent and when people say heart raced out of their chest or something to that effect, well I sensed that but this was on steroids lol.

I am again riding the beeps hard so closer to 60km/h, my eyes are wet no glasses and see a line in the road, did not think anymore of it looks like 2D line painted and I cross it, when the whole wheel take off and try to violent kick me off (upward and forward) I realized my mistake and it's amazing how fast the brain can connecting something when your health depend on it really?

I of course by now understood it's not a line but a high curb, my angle of attack over it was pretty bad but dos that matter at that speed, a very stressed full blown adrenaline poring memory cause feeling that and realize your mistake at that speed do send the body into some wild, wild emotional mode for sure, hard to explain but not just the usual fast and slightly delayed release of the neurotransmitter hormone.

I was lucky to, the curb had a slight  chamfer, or beveled rot not just 90 degree all around which I am glad for cause it was a high sucker too, ohh well anyways point is... Thank God for those knees working, without them I would have had a proper, proper high speed crash and I believe really hurt.

i had the same experience. but everything was like in slow motion for some seconds. other than i rode a tesla at 50 kph and a new crack that was very tall had appeared on my usual path. so i went flying. the 16 inch wheel of the tesla couldnt in any way handle that type of crack. it was like a very big edge. i went flying. i flew 5-7 meters. and the tesla was laying next to me. but the tesla only got some minor scratches onn the back and front parts that i easily replaced and sold it 1.5 month later to get an msuper X. 

[Electroman]

4 hours ago, Shad0z said:

i had the same experience. but everything was like in slow motion for some seconds. other than i rode a tesla at 50 kph and a new crack that was very tall had appeared on my usual path. so i went flying. the 16 inch wheel of the tesla couldnt in any way handle that type of crack. it was like a very big edge. i went flying. i flew 5-7 meters. and the tesla was laying next to me. but the tesla only got some minor scratches onn the back and front parts that i easily replaced and sold it 1.5 month later to get an msuper X. 

I can imagine and not envy of your accident, my ACM is not as fast and hard as the Tesla but at least 16 inch and I can see myself crashing hard if that was on a 16" wheel.

The tire of the MSX is just fantastic

[Shad0z]

On 10/30/2018 at 5:16 PM, Electroman said:

I can imagine and not envy of your accident, my ACM is not as fast and hard as the Tesla but at least 16 inch and I can see myself crashing hard if that was on a 16" wheel.

The tire of the MSX is just fantastic

agreed. i dont think the same would have happened on my msuper X. the msuper X just goes over bumps like they are small stones!  

[Electroman]

6 hours ago, Shad0z said:

agreed. i dont think the same would have happened on my msuper X. the msuper X just goes over bumps like they are small stones!  

Hehe indeed, it's a locomotive!