Rehab1´s accident(s)

[Electroman]

VPD jacked looked pretty ok and new to me, been looking at things like Alpinestars Bionic series with Plus/Pro/Tech models and similar solutions but though not for me, not on a EUC. Perhaps I need to rethink that seeing this, I am not a lightweight 18 year old either so injuries likely come easier and take longer to heal, will def look around at this point.

 

 

[ir_fuel]

Haven't visited the forums in months (no EUC weather here so ...), wish you a speedy recovery @Rehab1!

I crashed at approx 18mph myself in October, luckily not as bad as you but there are still some shoulder exercises I can't do when I go to the gym and my dislocated pinkie hasn't (and probably never will) recovered its range of movement 100% (luckily for me it's not annoying me in any way, I am no guitar player). For me it meant missing the most important car race of the season, but that's all peanuts compared to not being able to do your job.

My first reaction was to gear up more (I was just wearing helmet and wrist protectors), but maybe the smart thing to do is convince yourself that slower is ok too (wonder what that same crash at 25mph would have done ...) and not push the speed limit on unknown roads (not that I crashed on an unknown road ... just hit the cutout when going too fast over a known obstacle).

 

 

[Rehab1]

Currently sitting at hospital for pre-op blood work, ekg and chest xray while searching on the web for Xtech shoulder pads. WTF is wrong with me?

I might as well chronicle this whole pre and post op surgical event. Maybe the surgeons  will be kind enought to take some photos during the operation on Tuesday.

Hopefully  I can convince some hold out members to begin wearing safety gear by the time this episode is over.

7am arrival this morning for preop tests

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Rehab1

[WARPed1701D]

23 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Currently sitting at hospital for pre-op blood work, ekg and chest xray while searching on the web for Xtech shoulder pads. WTF is wrong with me?

I might as well chronicle this whole pre and post op surgical event. Maybe the surgeons  will be kind enought to take some photos during the operation on Tuesday.

Hopefully  I can convince some hold out members to begin wearing safety gear by the time this episode is over.

7am arrival this morning for preop tests

 

Good luck today. I hope you get the all clear on everything to proceed. 

Love the idea of documentation of all the steps back to health in the hope of converting the hold-outs. 

[Rehab1]

14 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Love the idea of documentation of all the steps back to health in the hope of converting the hold-outs. 

Thanks. It might work for a few.

EKG a few minutes ago. Wired for sound.,

 

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Rehab1

[WARPed1701D]

2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

EKG a few minutes ago. Wired for sound.,

 

 

I see you sneaking a little nipple action into the photo again. 

Your just try to compete with @Marty Backe's big guns! 

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

I see you sneaking a little nipple action into the photo again. 

I have a feeling sometime today, when @Marty Backe gets around to it, the photo will reappear with a band aide covering my nipple or a piercing depicting the GW logo. 

 

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Currently sitting at hospital for pre-op blood work, ekg and chest xray while searching on the web for Xtech shoulder pads. WTF is wrong with me?

I might as well chronicle this whole pre and post op surgical event. Maybe the surgeons  will be kind enought to take some photos during the operation on Tuesday.

Hopefully  I can convince some hold out members to begin wearing safety gear by the time this episode is over.

7am arrival this morning for preop tests

 

 

  You're a human with a passion, that's what's wrong with you   Yeah baby, you'll be back 

[Rehab1]

I do have some additional information about my humeral head fracture and the biomechanical forces that caused it. I discussed the accident with an orthopedist friend. The excessive transilatory forces transmitted up to the humeral head occurred when my left elbow impacted the pavement. I was not wearing elbow pads at the time of the accident, only my leather jacket. The humeral head, neck and surrounding muscles/ ligaments must have acted as a shock absorber upon impact that prevented my elbow from fracturing. 95% of the forces were then concentrated on the humeral head and greater trochanter. 

 

 So now the dilemma is how to prevent this type of injury? Elbow pads with voluminous shock absorption material to cushion the blunt forces upon impact?  How about an exoskeletal structure surrounding the wrist,  forearm, elbow and shoulder that completely locks out any range of motion and reduces the amount of forces transferred to the shoulder? More sunlight, vitamin D and calcium? I just don’t have any answers. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Rehab1

[LanghamP]

11 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I do have some additional information about my humeral head fracture and the biomechanical forces that caused it. I discussed the accident with an orthopedist friend. The excessive transilatory forces transmitted up to the humeral head occurred when my left elbow impacted the pavement. I was not wearing elbow pads at the time of the accident, only my leather jacket. The humeral head, neck and surrounding muscles/ ligaments must have acted as a shock absorber upon impact that prevented my elbow from fracturing. 95% of the forces were then concentrated on the humeral head and greater trochanter. 

 

 So now the dilemma is how to prevent this type of injury? Elbow pads with voluminous shock absorption material to cushion the blunt forces upon impact?  How about an exoskeletal structure surrounding the wrist,  forearm, elbow and shoulder that completely locks out any range of motion and reduces the amount of forces transferred to the shoulder? More sunlight, vitamin D and calcium? I just don’t have any answers. 

That won't work; Parkour suggests keeping one elbow quite high, palm outward, and take a roll. Even a clumsy roll will work pretty well to reduce fractures.

My last high speed face plant, slower than yours, while I did lose skin I didn't get any bruising. I had been taking Parkour classes over the summer just for this situation.

You cannot buy your way out of crashes; you have to put in the time and take Judo and Parkour classes, diet right so there's less mass.

@Rehab1, let me ask you a question. Did you ever put on your equipment and then throw yourself like a ragdoll on, say, mats or grass? Equipment also requires training in falling.

[WARPed1701D]

Thanks for the forensics. 

It sounds like the key thing here is to absorb the shock. Something that can slow the change in velocity over a longer period and spread the force  over a larger area. A hard shell may do the latter but very little for the former. A combination of foam and hardshell as its typical in most skater protection would work but I feel the foam used in such gear is likely overwhelmed when used post 20mph given how energy gained is quadratic (I think). 

A full exoskeleton might help save your arm but the force will had to go somewhere... Where would it attach to your body and what would happen at that location on impact... Broken ribs? 

Of course, if you had fallen even slightly differently the physics of the fall and the injury sustained could have been totally different and we would be discussing a totally different protective system. There isn't a panacea for protection. So much of it is just dumb luck...and alas you ran out of it the other day. 

 

[novazeus]

I have different reasons for attempting wheeling. Diagnosed with a handball sized prostate cancer tumor of the worst grade of prostate cancer a man can get with a prognosis of three months to 12 months of life left if I underwent radiation, hormone therapy, etc etc, basically whatever my insurance would pay for, I'm sure, July 2014. Doctors aren't cavalier about telling people they should get their affairs in order. So here it is Feb 3rd, 2018 and I'm still above ground. I avoid driving my truck as much as possible, quit using my motorcycles, anything that vibrates my prostate, like jogging, no good as far as I'm concerned. So gliding, seemed like a good way to get around my ranch. Learning how to ride I feel like I need the fairly smooth pavement of my road but as soon as I can, most of my riding will be with the ks-18s in my pastures. Falling in my sandy pastures is a helluvs lot more forgiving than asphalt and asphalt is softer than concrete. Nice tight type 3 asphalt would be ideal outside because it is softer and u have a tendency to slide more. A biker friend of mine was doing something stupid and laid down his harley on the interstate probably doing 70+ mph knowing him, no helmet, and he picked up his bike and went on. Concrete, stones, bricks, trees, vehicles, etc etc sb avoided. I use to haul ass around the ranch on my dirtbikes just brushing trees thinking how clever I was, not realizing hitting a tree head on was a death sentence. Maybe that's the reasoning behind ninebot's new fat tire wheel, gearing it for off road. I posted this on my fb page today as further testimonial to the miracle of cannabis oil extract:

Yaay good news!
Nov 1st psa 0.6, Dec 1st psa 0.8, so a little nervous, skip a monthly psa test and wait until yesterday, Feb 2nd and psa 0.7. 
And that's with very little medication.
Zero prescription medicine of any kind.

Edited February 3, 2018 by novazeus

[Ombre]

First of all, thank you @Rehab1 for your helpful reports!

Rehab1 says he wasn't wearing elbow protection and that as a result shock forces were transmitted from his elbow to shatter his humeral head.

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

So now the dilemma is how to prevent this type of injury? Elbow pads with voluminous shock absorption material to cushion the blunt forces upon impact?

The motorcycle industry has already solved much of this problem.  Check out motorcycle-grade armor. It's not merely foam padding; it's high-tech stuff that dissipates impact energy effectively even in a high-speed crash, and it's amazingly thin and light.

That's why I wear a Speed & Strength motorcycle hoody whenever temperatures allow (it's often too hot here in southern Arizona), which incorporates armor for elbows, shoulders, and spine all in one garment.

It doesn't make me look like Robocop or a Power Ranger.  It's easy to throw on.  It's not horribly expensive ($120 or so). And having fallen hard while wearing it, I can tell you the shoulder armor works.

Yeah, it's not perfect.  We can kick around other ideas for superior protection.  But we don't have to go to extremes.  Just wear something to reduce the damage.  Most riders I see wear nothing, or only protection for the last body part they injured.

[DaveThomasPilot]

2 hours ago, LanghamP said:

You cannot buy your way out of crashes; you have to put in the time and take Judo and Parkour classes, diet right so there's less mass.

 

Speed is a much more important factor than body weight.  Impact forces are proportional to mass, but proportional to your speed squared!

For example (all other things being equal), the impact forces going 18 mph is 2.25 times higher than when going12 mph.   The seemingly tiny difference  between 18 and 20 mph results in over 20% increased impact force at 20 mph versus 18 mph.    22 mph is 50% higher than 18 mph.

Speed matters! 

 

[LanghamP]

12 minutes ago, DaveThomasPilot said:

Speed is a much more important factor than body weight.  Impact forces are proportional to mass, but proportional to your speed squared!

For example (all other things being equal), the impact forces going 18 mph is 2.25 times higher than when going12 mph.   The seemingly tiny difference  between 18 and 20 mph results in over 20% increased impact force at 20 mph versus 18 mph.    22 mph is 50% higher than 18 mph.

Speed matters! 

 

The impact forces against the ground are no different at zero mph as 100 mph. You fall the same distance.  You might slide twice as far in a 12 vs 18 mph drop, but unless you hit an obstacle the impact against the ground is the same.

If you cannot safely fall from zero mph then you have no business being on an EUC in the first place.

Now an impact against a tree as 12 vs. 18, that I would be concerned about which is why I urge people the utmost caution when on the sidewalk around pedestrians. Don't be "that guy" who I encounter once a month who purposefully brushes against me at high speeds on his bicycle because I'm on "his" road.

I would guess almost all of us would be enable to roll or otherwise land uninjured from a zero mph fall. You have to be trained, and I know it's hard and boring, but, jeez, if you ride an EUC you need basic falling training.

Again, you can't buy or justify your way out of this.

And again, sounding like a broken record...

If you cannot safely fall from zero mph then you have no business being on an EUC in the first place.

[DaveThomasPilot]

Fair point.  I agree that vertical component of the impact force is independent of horizontal speed.   

And, to the extent one could roll without dissipating the kinetic energy quickly, that's a good thing.   I certainly agree with 

If you cannot safely fall from zero mph then you have no business being on an EUC in the first place.

 

But, I'm not sure it follows that if you can fall safely from zero mph, then it doesn't matter how fast you are going (unless you hit a tree).  

 

 

 

[Mono]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

So now the dilemma is how to prevent this type of injury?

• reduce the speed
• could the pedal modification (fixated foot positioning) have contributed to losing control over the wheel or hindering departing from it?
• acquire better reflexes before and/or while going down. Bending the knees is the first that comes in my mind. Then, I have seen skateboarders consistently moving their elbow inwards and close to the body when bending the arm after the hand hits the ground. Like this it seems to be impossible to land on a locked elbow. Acquiring reflexes is of course impossible to achieve in a day or two and the best falling technique very likely depends on the specific protection used.

All the best for the surgery!!!

Edited February 3, 2018 by Mono

[Rehab1]

3 hours ago, LanghamP said:

@Rehab1, let me ask you a question. Did you ever put on your equipment and then throw yourself like a ragdoll on, say, mats or grass? Equipment also requires training in falling.

Not with all of my equipment donned but a good idea. Tough to practice at 20 mph but I’m sure some repetitive rag doll rolling sessions would eventually become second nature and offer a better outcome.  I’m certain that I stiffened up while attempting to regain control over that 3- 4 second period of time. 

I’ve fallen numerous times over the years and rolled just fine. Did my karate lessons from 40 years ago subliminally kick in? Who knows. I was  run off the road by an idiot driving a Polaris last year and actually rolled quite gracefully into a grassy ditch going 8 mph. Then out of no where came another involuntary reflex.  My middle finger shot up at attention.   

Edited February 3, 2018 by Rehab1

[Mono]

10 minutes ago, DaveThomasPilot said:

Fair point.  I agree that vertical component of the impact force is independent of horizontal speed.   

And, to the extent one could roll without dissipating the kinetic energy quickly, that's a good thing.   I certainly agree with 

If you cannot safely fall from zero mph then you have no business being on an EUC in the first place.

 

But, I'm not sure it follows that if you can fall safely from zero mph, then it doesn't matter how fast you are going (unless you hit a tree).  

 

The problem though is that some of the forward momentum is usually transformed into a downward rotation (hence faceplant). A comminuted fracture of the humerus from just falling down from zero speed is an extremely unlikely scenario.

Managing to come down without introducing rotations in the body before to hit the road, say by bending the knees and maybe landing on the side of the butt first, is probably a pretty good outcome.

[fryman]

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

Then out of no where came another involuntary reflex.  My middle finger shot up at attention.   

Hey maybe while they operate on your your shoulder they could fix that too! 

[Electroman]

4 hours ago, LanghamP said:

That won't work; Parkour suggests keeping one elbow quite high, palm outward, and take a roll. Even a clumsy roll will work pretty well to reduce fractures.

My last high speed face plant, slower than yours, while I did lose skin I didn't get any bruising. I had been taking Parkour classes over the summer just for this situation.

You cannot buy your way out of crashes; you have to put in the time and take Judo and Parkour classes, diet right so there's less mass.

@Rehab1, let me ask you a question. Did you ever put on your equipment and then throw yourself like a ragdoll on, say, mats or grass? Equipment also requires training in falling.

Some good points, however the "palm outward" thing send shivers down my spine, or should I say down my Scaphoid!

[LanghamP]

53 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Some good points, however the "palm outward" thing send shivers down my spine, or should I say down my Scaphoid!

As explained to me, the palm out is just to keep your elbow up and curved, otherwise if your elbow is down you might hit the side of your head hard, or your arm might not be curved enough and then you hit your elbow.

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, fryman said:

Hey maybe while they operate on your your shoulder they could fix that too! 

I actually thought about having it surgically extended.

 

38 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

As explained to me, the palm out is just to keep your elbow up and curved, otherwise if your elbow is down you might hit the side of your head hard, or your arm might not be curved enough and then you hit your elbow.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Rehab1

[Electroman]

9 hours ago, LanghamP said:

As explained to me, the palm out is just to keep your elbow up and curved, otherwise if your elbow is down you might hit the side of your head hard, or your arm might not be curved enough and then you hit your elbow.

Yeah I get it and was meant as a semi joke but also with some serious under tone as well cause Scaphoid injuries can be nasty too and I just broke mine stretching open hand out trying to roll off EUC.  

I think I understand the reasoning and in the end our head i the most important part of the body, but yeah chances are we might have to sacrifice something in a fall and I know at least I seem to experience time differently under a fall, I suspect I will not have the whole day thinking about how to fall so I really like what you said about lean mass and cannot buy way out of it, this is very good advice indeed.

Some of us will fall now and then, but trying to avoid serous damage at any cost is good thing and worth thinking about.

 

 

[Ethereal]

@Rehab1 - I am so sorry to hear of your accident. i have always enjoyed reading all your EUC experiences from a physician’s point of view as i am also one. I am a pediatric anesthesiologist but also do adult anesthesia since i work in a regular community hospital. i wish you the best in your upcoming surgery. i highly recommend consenting to an interscalene block on top of course to the general endotracheal anesthesia that you will require. The interscalene block will provide intra-op and postop analgesia. You will require less narcotics under general anesthesia with the block and therefore less likely to have post- op nausea. You will also have less pain once the block wears off because of pre-emptive analgesia.  Make sure you tell your anesthesiologist to put some lidocaine in your propofol when he induces you to sleep as the propofol can be very painful when injected. 

Anyway, I sincerely do wish you the best during the next few days and beyond. Once all healed and Wifey comes down, please reconsider coming back to EUCing as it would not be the same  reading the forums without your insight. Take it easy, Bro!