Fastmike Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, em1barns said: Bearing is a problem, but it is less of a safety issue than axle or pedal crack, blown fuse, burned mosfet, etc... so don’t really agree with your statement. So I assume you never saw a low quality bearing going bad. It can block the wheel without any notice, with or without making some noise for a while. And in the case of a EUC, all your weight is on it. It will be identical to a broken axle. Just hope that it will not happen to anyone and that InMotion will have identified, recalled and checked all the bad ones, including the ones that are already on their way all around the world. Because more will reach their destination, more risk of accident it will be. Just my 2 cent Edited June 8, 2018 by Fastmike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: There definitely needs to be a lot higher quality control especially on a long anticipated wheel. I know factories want to rush these out to excited consumers, but due to the distance, cost to ship, and disappointment in getting a defective product, there really should be a testing rig to run these for a few minutes on. I'm sure @Rehab1 could devise some sort of set up. Thanks for your confidence. My first EUC test rig failed last year but I learned volumes from the experience so fabricating a new test rig would be much easier this time around. Unfortunately I am selling my business so finding spare time for projects these days has become a real issue. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Juick Posted June 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) Bad bearing, backwards mounted tire, strange overload behavior, unexplained loose motion, broken tail light in one case and maybe some more... There is not a huge amount of these wheels out there and so many owners report issues. I was so sure I want this wheel, I even reserved one (should be in Czechia on ~15th June) but now I'm not so sure anymore. KS18L seems more and more appealing. I hope Inmotion guys will address those issues ASAP. Edited June 8, 2018 by Juick 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, Juick said: Bad bearing, backwards mounted tire, strange overload behaviour, unexplained loose motion, broken tail light in one case and mabye some more... There is not a huge amount of these wheels out there and so many owners report issues. Then again, look at some reviews and check how the wheel is built on the inside, and compare that to some other brands. Big differences there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: Then again, look at some reviews and check how the wheel is built on the inside, and compare that to some other brands. Big differences there! For sure more 'shiny' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that0n3guy Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) I'll stick up for Inmotion for a couple reasons: We are the first batch. The batch was a limited run for a reason, QC controls with new/different suppliers is always an iterative process. In software there is alpha, beta, release candidate (rc), then production. We are probably rc. If you pay attention to the other similar markets (ebikes, e-skateboards, etc...), you'll see a lot of QC issues (its much worse than this). You even see QC issues from the big boys (google) on their big releases (anyone remember the first batch of Pixel 2 xl phones?). Did everyone forget every other companies (even kingsong's) first batches of their new devices? Almost every time a new design comes up, there is almost always issues with the first batch. Why? We are human and the process is alway iterative. A QC system that works with supplier X may not be enough for supplier Y and you must have multiple suppliers to scale. I'd be more upset to have these issues if inmotion wasn't going to take care of us. It appears that inmotion will make things right, so I'm not to worried about it. 10 hours ago, Fastmike said: So I assume you never saw a low quality bearing going bad. It can block the wheel without any notice, with or without making some noise for a while. And in the case of a EUC, all your weight is on it. It will be identical to a broken axle. That's sort of extreme and would require a catastrophic bearing failure, we really aren't putting that much load on these bearings. I've seen plenty really bad bearings that would keep rolling. In college I did metallurgical research and load testing on train bearings... we would apply hundreds of thousands of pounds and run the for millions of miles at high speeds. We saw failures all the time, but even really really bad ones usually still spun... they just got really hot :). Edited June 8, 2018 by that0n3guy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WARPed1701D Posted June 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2018 10 hours ago, maltocs said: I had KICKBACK 4 times, all times toward the end of the ride. I pushed it a lot harder towards the beginning of the ride. picture is of a tiltback. It leans all the way back to this when it kicks me off, I need to hit the handle transport button to reset. First time was flat at 20+mph when battery was about 40%, other three times was going up a fairly steep hill also trying to go as fast as i can but really, not going that fast at all <10mph. It's the first flat kickback that worries me, as I was going 20+mph when it gradually leaned to where I had to jump off. Problem was I was still going about 7-8mph when i didn't have enough kickback balance to stay on and had to jump so i had to do a quick run to grab the wheel. I left the wheel in it's tilted state for the picture before I reset. I don't have system sounds since I did an ERASE DATA after the last diagnose wouldn't erase the OVERLOAD error so now I don't know what the warning is for kickback. When i check diagnose no saved warning showed up. and my tail light and audio bluetooth still works fine This is really odd behaviour. The V8 only does this when the battery reaches 0% or on overheat. It doesn't sound like either of these should apply to you. @Bobwheel, @Jeffrey Scott Will are you aware of this issue? Marty didn't see this problem on his test ride in challenging conditions except on "overheat hill". I know you have posted once for a specific bearing failure but It would be good to see some more comments here from the Inmotion team to address all the issues being seen (bearing noise, play in the wheel, several broken tailights, unnecessary extreme tiltback). Don't let your previous hard work on here be undermined by silence when openness is most needed. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechShizzle Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 11 hours ago, novazeus said: nope. if u haven't, u might try the apple version, i've had better luck there and try the calibration stuff. I’m running the iOS version of the app, and I’ve calibrated the wheel as well. No joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Farrenkopf Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 So far, I haven't had a bearing problem and I've done about 80km of flat city driving and I'm 255 pounds. I did notice from the start when holding on a pole waiting for the light to change that there is a little play in tilt before motor engages but I thought that was the way it was designed. I found the side lights turned off for some reason though. I'm sure not getting 100km range on it... LOL Maybe 50km - must be my fat ass! Driving around 22kmh average. I am pleased so far and hope I don't have a bearing problem pop up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that0n3guy Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 I'm encouraged that most of these things are software issues (except the bearing issue). The lights, sounds, tiltback, etc... all sound like software issues. If only we could get firmware fixes as fast as tesla (when they fixed the breaking speed) :). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulson Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) I agree. Most of the problems I am hearing about and experiencing (except bearing issues and tire mount direction) seem like firmware defects. I do hope inmotion will release an update in relatively short order. But I feel bad for the people with shot bearings =( Also, rc is "release candidate" ? Edited June 8, 2018 by soulson 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Tire direction is a non-issue and not worth mentioning as a fault. I don't know of any brand that consistently gets tire direction correct. It is the wrong way on my V8 and while the OCD in me wants to fix it it has made zero difference to my ride after 900 miles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 56 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said: Tire direction is a non-issue and not worth mentioning as a fault. I don't know of any brand that consistently gets tire direction correct. It is the wrong way on my V8 and while the OCD in me wants to fix it it has made zero difference to my ride after 900 miles. 110% totally agree with you, makes no difference in terms of ride or handling, or even water evacuation at our EUC speeds........it just points to an issue with attention to detail in the assembly process. If it were my assembly line they would be installed in the proper direction, but I am a bit of a detail oriented guy (possibly mild OCD). If I ever have to repair a flat or change the tire (tyre in your case <giggle>) I will be mounting the tyre in the proper direction. ? I have owned 21 different motorcycles over the years and I think this is where I pick up the tyre OCD issue........very important on a motorcycle and it’s the first thing I look for when I have a new “Meat” installed!!! But like I said up above on an EUC it is irrelevant with our speeds.........until of course Gotway comes out with a 70 mph capable Wheel ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said: Tire direction is a non-issue and not worth mentioning as a fault. I don't know of any brand that consistently gets tire direction correct. It is the wrong way on my V8 and while the OCD in me wants to fix it it has made zero difference to my ride after 900 miles. I have the tire ”wrong” way also. So far everyone has reported that. So maybe it’s by design? Just for looks? Seems to be that way on the promo material as well. https://goo.gl/images/9sWJps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that0n3guy Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, Master Blaster said: If it were my assembly line they would be installed in the proper direction, but I am a bit of a detail oriented guy (possibly mild OCD). Hmm.. ."my assembly line" doesn't scale. There are probably 5-10 different lines possibly in different cities/countries (controller, battery, bearing, wheel, shell, other stuff :P). Yes there is 1 final line, but you don't fully QC bearings on the final line, you QC bearing at the bearing line. Just like you don't fully QC batteries on the final. Running a company with even 10 people is far different from that of 1-3 people... You develop QC systems, not people when you want to sell a million EUC's. A QC person lets you sell hundreds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that0n3guy Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, UniVehje said: I have the tire ”wrong” way also. So far everyone has reported that. So maybe it’s by design? Just for looks? Seems to be that way on the promo material as well. https://goo.gl/images/9sWJps My KS14c is the "wrong" way as well. Are we sure we know what we are talking about? I sure don't I googled it: Depends on the conditions... want to break better or accelerate better? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Lee Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 28 minutes ago, that0n3guy said: My KS14c is the "wrong" way as well. Are we sure we know what we are talking about? I sure don't I googled it: Depends on the conditions... want to break better or accelerate better? Great point, on the motorcycles, rear tire follow the pattern for acceleration and front is set for breaking... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 28 minutes ago, that0n3guy said: My KS14c is the "wrong" way as well. Are we sure we know what we are talking about? I sure don't I googled it: Depends on the conditions... want to break better or accelerate better? Doesn’t have anything to do with braking or accelerating, strictly for water evacuation — allows the sipes to be oriented in such a way as to push water out from under the tire to increase traction and delay hydroplaning in wet driving conditions, that’s all. Point being that we don’t really have enough speed on an EUC for this to come into play, so from a functional standpoint it’s a non issue. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mark Lee said: Great point, on the motorcycles, rear tire follow the pattern for acceleration and front is set for breaking... Negative — the best tire for traction in DRY conditions is a “Slick” ie, no tread whatsoever, allows a greater contact patch. Guess you’ve never been to a race before. Tread is strictly for better water evacuation in the wet, or increased grip off road (in the dirt or sand). But on dry pavement best traction is a tire with no tread at all. If you were looking for best “grip” off road on your EUC ( in this case V10) you’d want the rotation direction arrow properly mounted, which in the case of the V10 its most defiantly NOT. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltocs Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 5 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: This is really odd behaviour. The V8 only does this when the battery reaches 0% or on overheat. It doesn't sound like either of these should apply to you. @Bobwheel, @Jeffrey Scott Will are you aware of this issue? Marty didn't see this problem on his test ride in challenging conditions except on "overheat hill". I know you have posted once for a specific bearing failure but It would be good to see some more comments here from the Inmotion team to address all the issues being seen (bearing noise, play in the wheel, several broken tailights, unnecessary extreme tiltback). Don't let your previous hard work on here be undermined by silence when openness is most needed. Yes, it was odd behavior, but nothing that can't be adjusted with a firmware update. And oddly enough, when it cut on the straight away at about 22mph at about 40% battery, the inmotion app showed my max power for the ride was only about 1500W, no where close to the max 2000 rated power. 4 hours ago, soulson said: I agree. Most of the problems I am hearing about and experiencing (except bearing issues and tire mount direction) seem like firmware defects. I do hope inmotion will release an update in relatively short order. But I feel bad for the people with shot bearings =( Also, rc is "release candidate" ? Hoping for a firmware update to fix these problem soon. There was an updated android app released this morning v 7.0.3 but doesn't seem to do much other than add the new inmotion P2 bicycle to it's compatibility list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastmike Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 11 hours ago, maltocs said: Yes, it was odd behavior, but nothing that can't be adjusted with a firmware update. And oddly enough, when it cut on the straight away at about 22mph at about 40% battery, the inmotion app showed my max power for the ride was only about 1500W, no where close to the max 2000 rated power. Hoping for a firmware update to fix these problem soon. There was an updated android app released this morning v 7.0.3 but doesn't seem to do much other than add the new inmotion P2 bicycle to it's compatibility list. That also means that to be a good pratice to upload your logs via the app for InMotion to get all the possible data for a quicker/better analysis of the root cause of each single issue you are facing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kael Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 20 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: This is really odd behaviour. The V8 only does this when the battery reaches 0% or on overheat. It doesn't sound like either of these should apply to you. @Bobwheel, @Jeffrey Scott Will are you aware of this issue? Marty didn't see this problem on his test ride in challenging conditions except on "overheat hill". I know you have posted once for a specific bearing failure but It would be good to see some more comments here from the Inmotion team to address all the issues being seen (bearing noise, play in the wheel, several broken tailights, unnecessary extreme tiltback). Don't let your previous hard work on here be undermined by silence when openness is most needed. My V8’s been doing that at 25% battery fairly consistently for the last month or so. Absolutely infuriating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demargon Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Master Blaster said: Tread is strictly for better water evacuation Tread also "evacuate" dirt and sand. Off-road riding, that evacuate come into diggin, sinking the wheel in the ground. Because of that you don't want the tire mount properly in euc. The z10 tread is mounted properly, maybe that tire is wide enough to suffer aquaplaning at high speed, or maybe it didn't get any advantage reversing the tread in off-road riding Edited June 9, 2018 by Demargon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Kael said: My V8’s been doing that at 25% battery fairly consistently for the last month or so. Absolutely infuriating. Are you logging your ride to see battery % when tiltback is initiated? When did you measure 25% left? In extreme current demand cases the battery could drop to 0% and cause shutdown tiltback and then rebound to 25% immediately after the load is removed. The V8 is only a 2P battery system so demands per cell can be high. When was the last time you left it on the charger for a few hours after getting full to balance the cells? How many miles? How old? Do you do partial charges or charge fully and leave it sitting full? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kael Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said: Are you logging your ride to see battery % when tiltback is initiated? When did you measure 25% left? In extreme current demand cases the battery could drop to 0% and cause shutdown tiltback and then rebound to 25% immediately after the load is removed. The V8 is only a 2P battery system so demands per cell can be high. When was the last time you left it on the charger for a few hours after getting full to balance the cells? How many miles? How old? Do you do partial charges or charge fully and leave it sitting full? Just monitoring the LED indicators and battery level in the app, I could log it but haven’t done so, so far. I’ve left it on the charger overnight a few times, it always stops charging around 85-90%. Just over 1000 miles and a year old now. I usually full charge, as I certainly expect the battery to last more than 1000miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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