Harold Farrenkopf Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 hours ago, Fastmike said: . So they prefer to bounce the ball and just tell you to ignore forums... Lol, don’t listen to the internet???? LOL. The web is where we learn about new stuff. I don’t have a local store to shop at or browse products. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 On 8/4/2018 at 1:34 AM, Michael Vu said: Haven't been following this thread nor did I see the important message from Inmotion about wet weather. Luckily I was contacted by Inmotion USA directly over the phone who told me about the wet weather issue. Interestingly enough my V10F has been in damp but not wet weather and have not had any issues (including no overloading issues). It's disappointing that these issues are coming out but at least Inmotion is taking active steps to correct it. Hey Michael, I can atest to the Overload situation. It was on a hil that I did on my v8 with no problems, so it is odd. It would be nice to get it fixed. Oh the firmware updates were the only times I got problems. When I was riding the original firmware it was a blast to ride. Now its a dustmeter for my house. On the water ingress, I have been out in the rain, ironic for L.A., and had no problems whatsoever. I am betting it is a speaker wire thats the possible channel. Like I said, not enough rain in my case, pun intended, so it may be for drenching rains more than showers and puddles. So far they are on top of it, but it remains to be seen what they will do about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 On 8/7/2018 at 10:11 AM, UniVehje said: [..] I bought directly from them although I life in Finland [..] As an aside, I remember checking that at the time but without being able to order directly from them. I checked again today and can indeed only see shipping within US as an option? Perhaps they've changed things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rok Tomažin Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Is this unusual power button behavior? I was driving in rain on multiple occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rok Tomažin said: Is this unusual power button behavior? I was driving in rain on multiple occasions. better be safe than sorry... Edited August 8, 2018 by US69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rok Tomažin said: Is this unusual power button behavior? I was driving in rain on multiple occasion Hmm, can't really say, but I can reproduce anything similar on mine now when trying it (assuming you mean the initial flickering of the power display?). Did it behave the same with a full charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Nils said: Hmm, can't really say, but I can reproduce anything similar on mine now when trying it (assuming you mean the initial flickering of the power display?). Did it behave the same with a full charge? Going back to the advisory posted here they talk about "Strange behavior in the battery light indicator next to the power button" so I guess this may qualify . The advisory is frustratingly short on details though. Hopefully other owners can chime and say whether they've seen this, but until then it's probably sage advise from @US69 to be better safe than sorry (and get in contact with Inmotion USA if you bought from them or your dealer if you can) - I hope everything works out well and quickly. Edited August 8, 2018 by Nils 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rok Tomažin Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) Yes this colorfull flickering Its happening always no matter what charge level is. Edited August 8, 2018 by Rok Tomažin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Onymous Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Rok Tomažin said: Yes this colorfull flickering Its happening always no matter what charge level is. Yeah, thats how its always been for mine. All the InMotions have a different start pressure or amount of time to press the button to start them, so I have always noticed that. Its a real rough problem to have, HA! Will your vehicle have other faults that are unconnected? Maybe... But that is not from riding in the rain, since mine did that before it was ridden in the rain. For a while the top circumferencial light around the full power read out would be missing parts, but I think that was showing power level some how. More importantly is how does it ride? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveCut Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Its hardware problem which has no simple fix (powering up by BMS) so inmotion chosen easiest effective way, don't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Rok Tomažin said: Is this unusual power button behavior? I was driving in rain on multiple occasions. That is completely normal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Nils said: As an aside, I remember checking that at the time but without being able to order directly from them. I checked again today and can indeed only see shipping within US as an option? Perhaps they've changed things. I think they accidentally allowed to pre-order to other countries. I didn’t know how the company worked and just followed their link and pre-ordered and paid the deposit to my address. They were kind enough to follow through and arranged a special page for me that allowed me to do the final order and got the wheel shipped directly from the factory to Finland. I thought that was really good service from them. I’m assuming normally European customers should order from somewhere else. I wish there were InMotion Europe also or just one company representing globally. The team at InMotion USA clearly does the best job at running their marketing and customer relations. The product from a Chinese factory is having some teething issues but their brand management is doing everything right. If they get all the remaining issued ironed out, this will be a killer combination. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Farrenkopf Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 One week has passed since the rain/ water notice. One week left to wait. It’s been raining here for days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Traveller Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 11 hours ago, UniVehje said: That is completely normal. Yep, same story with mine, no rain exposure yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 15 hours ago, Stan Onymous said: Yeah, thats how its always been for mine. All the InMotions have a different start pressure or amount of time to press the button to start them, so I have always noticed that. Its a real rough problem to have, HA! The power / lights button operations of the V10F is not particularly a friend of mine I have to say, you have to press the button just the right amount of time to get it power up. To little and it'll just blimp and won't power on, too much and you're powering it on with lights.. But it seems like this is an Inmotion trait then, but I'm wondering why not just to use long press for powering on/off and short press for lights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Farrenkopf Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Nils said: The power / lights button operations of the V10F is not particularly a friend of mine I have to say, you have to press the button just the right amount of time to get it power up. To little and it'll just blimp and won't power on, too much and you're powering it on with lights.. But it seems like this is an Inmotion trait then, but I'm wondering why not just to use long press for powering on/off and short press for lights. Short press turns it off. I don't understand why it isn't a long press..... Maybe to turn it off quickly if out of control or malfunction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBIKER_SURFER Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Hi V10F riders, can anybody verify the bug in 2.2.8 on classic mode with max speed 36 km/h? Setup speed is 40 km/h. And this is not a smooth tilt as descirbed in the handbook(3° to 5° backup tilt) - this is really a hard backup tilt - comparable with out of battery! Comfort mode does this perfectly at speed of 40 km/h Of course, battery is more than 90% at testing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 (edited) @MBIKER_SURFER, Actually I'm not a V10F rider, but I posted such problem previously, so yes, I can confirm (on behalf of another person who is not present on this forum). Setup speed is 45 km/h: Edited August 9, 2018 by palachzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maltocs Posted August 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2018 INMOTION V10F v2.2.8 and WHEELLOG 2.0.15 Went for a ride today in my test hill (80F air temp 200lb rider, Classic Mode). Specifically wanted to test OVERLOADING while monitoring Wheellog temperatures. At one point, Bob from InMotion mentioned heatsink temps is what causes overloads and that number can be "scary." I wanted to see what scary is. I rode today with the mission to overload the wheel. I was riding fast uphills often standing on my toes to push it faster. I took a readings from BOTH the InMotion App and Wheellog. There has been some discussion on the Wheellog Android thread about how Wheellog probably has a more accurate Battery reading. This test assumes the Wheellog "System Temp" is the heatsink temp. - I took the first reading about a half mile into the ride as I forgot to take it when I started. - I took a reading at the top of the hill. I took the gradual incline on the way up about a mile to the top, all uphill, no overheat. - I did an extremely steep short hill that this wheel never makes it up, I knew it would overload. The System Temp hit 100F before it overloaded. - On the ride home, did a moderately steep mile long hill. When I was getting to the top, i was on my toes getting it to go faster when it overloaded at very low temps. I checked wheel log and it was clocking over 2200W for about 10s. Possibly this is the reason for overload?? Bottom line is 100C on the heatsinks IS scary. That's boiling temp. If in fact 100C is what the OVERLOAD trigger is, there is NO firmware that can fix this, the mosfets simply get too hot. I did notice that as I monitored the temperatures after the overloads, the temps drop FAST, very fast. I'm talking 15C in about a minute. This explains why I can just cycle the power and i'm good to go again. AND THIS CONCLUDES the testing of my V10F on hills. Now time to enjoy my MCM5. (Wheellog logs and app screenshots available upon request) 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltocs Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 8 hours ago, maltocs said: Bottom line is 100C on the heatsinks IS scary. That's boiling temp. If in fact 100C is what the OVERLOAD trigger is, there is NO firmware that can fix this, the mosfets simply get too hot. I did notice that as I monitored the temperatures after the overloads, the temps drop FAST, very fast. I'm talking 15C in about a minute. This explains why I can just cycle the power and i'm good to go again. I was thinking, I'm NOT an engineer, just an end user tester, so i don't know what is the working temp of mosfets or heatsinks or what is considered too hot. I was going off of a recommendation to monitor my wheellog temp on the MCM5 if it is hoovering at 80C, but then again wheellog only gets one temp on the mcm5, or I should say more accurately, the two temps, cpu and system are always the same. And really, who knows what this 100C number really is. Just to me, it sounds scary. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted August 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) Here’s some interesting reading about heat resistant MOSFETs: https://www.digikey.ca/en/articles/techzone/2013/oct/mosfets-that-can-take-the-heat Some MOSFETs have pretty high operating ratings. I think @esaj mentioned that the datasheets on these tend to exaggerate the operating specifications, but I wonder if the higher quality ones meant for aerospace/aviation/military could be better engineered. Would people mind paying $400 for a control board instead of $200 as long as it can operate up to 150°C and tackle the steepest hill climbs with a 200 lb rider? I think most people riding these aren’t likely climbing really steep inclines routinely so they make the boards “good enough” just like how cars don’t all need AWD and don’t need Hummer/Landrover/Jeep climbing abilities. That is not to say that EUC manufacturers shouldn’t produce an EUC Hummer version since there is a part of the marketplace that needs it. It’s just that likely 90% are fine with the basic MOSFET specs. 10% need that military/aviation class extreme usage spec so they should make a heavy duty EUC dedicated to that. It is interesting though that even with the apparent extra engineering that goes into InMotion and King Song wheels that Gotway has the MCM5 among other models that can tackle the same hills with fewer issues. What’s the secret sauce? More lax firmware limitations? Edited August 11, 2018 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rehab1 Posted August 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Would people mind paying $400 for a control board instead of $200 as long as it can operate up to 150°C and tackle the steepest hill climbs with a 200 lb rider? Most members would be on-board with higher costs if an unambiguous data sheet accompanied each wheel detailing the exact specifications and/or classification of the componentry used during the build process. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stan Onymous Posted August 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: t is interesting though that even with the apparent extra engineering that goes into InMotion and King Song wheels that Gotway has the MCM5 among other models that can tackle the same hills with fewer issues. What’s the secret sauce? More lax firmware limitations? I have had no problems with the Ks18L going up all hills. There is a little snafu of descending long steep hills at over 95% power leading to too much power generation, but thats an - I am too generous - type of fault assesment. I can live with it. I would also say that 100C for the V10 is about 20°C higher than what that MCM5 temp warning was set to on Maltocs’ watch I am not interested in Engineering my ride with all sorts of extra gear to warn me of when my Wheel is going to melt under my feet. I prefer to immerse myself in the feel of the ride and concentrate on making that ride better with my riding skills, not my ability to figure out temps and amps on a watch I really dont want to spend precious ride time figuring out. Call me stupid, I am not sure what that means anymore, but I do know I ride the Wheels for the ride, not for the Math. What I am saying is that although I am okay with my own achievements as being underachieving, I am not okay with my Wheel having the same monicker as an Underachiever. The question remains, is InMotion okay with being an Underachiever Wheel company? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stan Onymous Posted August 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Most members would be on-board with higher costs if an unambiguous data sheet accompanied each wheel detailing the exact specifications and/or classification of the componentry used during the build process. But I would not pay the extra money if I thought the engineers were lazy and just misplaced a decimal point in their calculations. That type of snafu is on them. InMotion had 2 years of studying the V8 to get a circuitboard designed for this much more powerful motor. I should not be paying for their learning curve. Thats supposed to be Company R&D, not Consumer based. If it is Consumer based R&D, then there is no need to pay extra because we are part of the cost. We are the research part in that equation. You cant get paid for intellectual property until you have an intelligent workable design. That takes money and research. These parts costs are all part of that equation. You want to cut costs on circuitry? Then you risk a cut in revenue if those cuts prevent the riders from enjoyment, and they pass it on to other prospective riders. The fact that some manufacturers have the right sauce and other do not, and they are in the same price range leads me to believe that price was not a deciding factor in available components in order to create a working Wheel. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Farrenkopf Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) Heatsink getting too hot means that it can’t dissipate the heat fast enough to the outside environment (atmosphere). The Only 2 ways to fix this is larger surface area/larger heatsink or more airflow over it. No software mods can fix this. Edited August 11, 2018 by Harold Farrenkopf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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