New Inmotion V10 / V10F

[MBIKER_SURFER]

Just now, Demargon said:

I get the same tilt behaviour every time after calibrating it. I'm start to regret buying the v10f

The question is: Does this 'forward tilt disappear' at your wheel? At mine - no chance. And as posted, my V5F runs fine on the same routes.

[maltocs]

1 hour ago, Demargon said:

It seems my v10f problem with the rim hit comes worsen. I been talking with the inmotion post sale department and they proposed a engine replacement for what I get a 400€ bill.

They didn't assume the costs because is my blame for using it like they show in his promo:

And this is the result when I ride the same (with my 60kg of weight and 38 years old):

 

 

5

Looking at your tire and the scrapes on the body near the tire, looks like you hit some rock or something at just the WRONG angle. At your weight with the right tire pressure, you should be able to bounce off almost anything STRAIGHT ON without messing up your RIM. Here's a cut to Stan Onymous weighting a little more than you on his V10F doing down stairs and I see hiim go off high sidewalk curbs a lot. Sorry about your rim

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by maltocs

[phatmike]

On 6/24/2018 at 8:12 PM, Jrosenzweig said:

Least your wheel still works after upgrade, mine has CAN BUS error and says please repair, I tried initiating upgrade with my iPad pro and same behavior. It's a paper weight right now , waiting for a response on what needs to happen because can still connect via Bluetooth when plugged in.

A friend of mine (non in the forum) has the same problem and I ve no idea about what he can do to solve the problem @Bobwheel

[maltocs]

31 minutes ago, MBIKER_SURFER said:

OF course. I'm doing that in the meantime 'on the fly' ?

I remember after upgrading to fw v2.2.7, my pedal horizontal adjustment was a little off. I had to do the SCV Correction / "Car Body Turning and Forward Correction" calibration and something reset and it was fine after that. I didn't have to do anything when I went to v2.2.8. But if you've already tried that, dunno what to say. 

[Jrosenzweig]

15 minutes ago, phatmike said:

A friend of mine (non in the forum) has the same problem and I ve no idea about what he can do to solve the problem @Bobwheel

I worked directly with Bob on this and we tried a bunch of things and ended up having to replace control board. Good luck!

[MBIKER_SURFER]

3 minutes ago, Jrosenzweig said:

I worked directly with Bob on this and we tried a bunch of things and ended up having to replace control board. Good luck!

Control board? Is it the mainboard or is there a second board?

As said, the mainboard is replaced -> got a new serial no.!

[Jrosenzweig]

That's the same board...

[US69]

21 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Hopefully they don't give up on the overload issue, but it's so bad that I have my doubts that any firmware change will fully fix this.

If you got such Problems with overheating….my guess is also this is just not fixable! I guess your doubts are correct ? 

It is a high Performance Wheel but it seams Tests with heavier persons over 85kg havent been done and that the Hardware heatsink and heat Dissipation is s just to not good enough!

How should a Firmware fix that other than taking the power away? And then you would have no Performance Wheel anymore!

On the first KS18A's with bigger 1200Watt motor, which had no fan, a to thin heatsink and to small Mosfets the only fix was User DIY Fan ……. All the newer KS like S Series and even more power now have gigantic heatsinks, better Mosfets plus Fan....it seams to be a learning process every EUC Company Needs ? 

[US69]

17 hours ago, maltocs said:

On yesterday's test, you'll notice I was NOT able to get higher than 70C on the mainboard temp. I would just turn it off, wait for the fan to stop (about 10s), then immediately turn it back on and get right back to riding. Those two temps have to be related in some way. Maybe raise that tolerance 5 to 10C? 

As i have read here somewhere as Information from Bobwhee actually the temperature presented in the app is NOT the real heatsink/Mosfet temperature!

 

 

[US69]

18 minutes ago, MBIKER_SURFER said:

Control board? Is it the mainboard or is there a second board?

As said, the mainboard is replaced -> got a new serial no.!

You both are speaking About different Problems...you want Information on the "tilt" issue….

jrosenzweig answers to a Problem where someone had a serious update/Firmware Problem.

[MBIKER_SURFER]

58 minutes ago, Jrosenzweig said:

That's the same board...

Hm - that was changed on Monday. More than frustrating. Glad, to have a V5F - although a total different riding. But everything works as expected! 

Edited August 3, 2018 by MBIKER_SURFER

[UniVehje]

2 hours ago, MBIKER_SURFER said:

Is this normal, a bug or a feature?

Definitely a bug. Not normal at all. I’ve said it before but this sounds exactly like my wheel after messing around with calibration without knowing how it works. It calibrated it at wrong position. But if you’ve done it correctly, then it must be something else. Sounds like a calibration issue anyway. Very strange that it continues for you even after service. 

[MBIKER_SURFER]

1 minute ago, UniVehje said:

Definitely a bug. Not normal at all. 

So your V10 keeps position as you start the turn. O.k. - that what I would expect and my V5F is doing. 

[UniVehje]

11 minutes ago, MBIKER_SURFER said:

So your V10 keeps position as you start the turn. O.k. - that what I would expect and my V5F is doing. 

Yes it does and it does it very well. I’ve tested several wheels and usually I can feel more dip on others. 

What are your other settings and do they have any effect? Can you take this on video? Riding with the dip or doing the calibration. 

What about @Demargon, can you take video of the dip?

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by UniVehje

[MBIKER_SURFER]

This morning ride wwa with FW 1.1.6 - because of MB change. Settings where minus 1° Pedal and max speed allowed.

Settings this evening where FW 2.2.8 in comfort mode - sensitivity set to 60% and 0° pedal tilt.

[maltocs]

4 hours ago, US69 said:

As i have read here somewhere as Information from Bobwhee actually the temperature presented in the app is NOT the real heatsink/Mosfet temperature!

2

Yeah, he did mention that. I was just noticing in my data that the mainboard never goes higher than 70C and I'm assuming the whole system, whether mainboard and mosfets/heatsinks must rise at the same time. All the temp tolerance need to be adjusted accordingly for me to actually enjoy this device going uphills. Hopefully that heatsink data is transmitted SOMEWHERE. I'm gonna check wheellog today to see if a mysterious 2nd temp reading appears. Thanks.

 

9 hours ago, palachzzz said:

After pressing the power button - controlled immediately turn off motor and everything else, but the controller and fan stays on for 7 seconds more. After 7 seconds BMS turn off the controller, and fan. If you want to cool the controller, you shouldn't turn V10 off.. You need to wait some time while fan cools down main board. Also the better way to cool down heatsink - is to lift up the wheel and let the motor rotate at high speed without making it to the cutoff point 

I cycle the power to get rid of the tilt when it is in overload status. When it turns back on the fan turns back on as well. But good to know about the rotate at high speed, i'm gonna try that next time the unit is hot and see if it drops the temp any faster. My other option is to ride with a leaf blower. Thanks.

[Harold Farrenkopf]

55 minutes ago, maltocs said:

Yeah, he did mention that. I was just noticing in my data that the mainboard never goes higher than 70C and I'm assuming the whole system, whether mainboard and mosfets/heatsinks must rise at the same time. All the temp tolerance need to be adjusted accordingly for me to actually enjoy this device going uphills. Hopefully that heatsink data is transmitted SOMEWHERE. I'm gonna check wheellog today to see if a mysterious 2nd temp reading appears. Thanks.

 

I cycle the power to get rid of the tilt when it is in overload status. When it turns back on the fan turns back on as well. But good to know about the rotate at high speed, i'm gonna try that next time the unit is hot and see if it drops the temp any faster. My other option is to ride with a leaf blower. Thanks.

I’d say to use a bottle of water to pour on the heatsink but the warning of not getting it wet now negates that.  

[maltocs]

22 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

I may have missed this but has anyone used Wheellog with the v10 yet (I understand it is now compatible)? Does it capture the heatsink temperature? I know it reports two temperatures from the V8. One aligns with the Inmotion app...the other is a bit of a mystery.

Wheellog with the V10F seems to have a mystery temp reading as well. Here are a couple screenshots of wheellog v2.0.12 and Inmotion App 2.0.4 after an easy ride I did last week. They were taken a minute apart. Looks obvious the Wheellog CPU(?) temp number is the same as the InMotion App's only temp reading, but that other number marked "System Temp" is a mystery number. And it's HIGH compared to the mainboard temp. Could this be the number that causes the Overloads.... time for another test!

[US69]

7 minutes ago, maltocs said:

that other number marked "System Temp" is a mystery number. And it's HIGH compared to the mainboard temp. Could this be the number that causes the Overloads.... time for another test!

Haha...

Nice! Seams that wheellog is reading the „real interesting“ temperature out of the wheel...The one that is responsible for the so called „overload“!! In fact....if thats so...now it gets real interesting!!!

[palachzzz]

45 minutes ago, maltocs said:

Looks obvious the Wheellog CPU(?) temp number is the same as the InMotion App's only temp reading, but that other number marked "System Temp" is a mystery number.

About week ago I disassembled my V8, and uses heatgun to understand which temperature where is taken from. And now I can definately to say: System temp taken from dedicated temp sensor from the heatsink near one of the MOSFETs. CPU(?) temp taken from built in sensor from service CPU (there are two CPU one for gyro/accel computing and motor ESC, another one - service, is used for Bluetooth connection, LEDs, Speaker, Lights and so on). So if nothing changed - System Temp is heatsink temp. I also can say, that I saw 77C on V8 and it was OK for EUC.
But also I can say that Inmotion App shows System Temp in main screen, not CPU temp for V8. You need to test it more.

Erm.. Also I need some V10F user, who will help me to improve WheelLog with V10 Total Distance. Please PM.

Edited August 3, 2018 by palachzzz

[WARPed1701D]

You need to be careful with Wheellog's naming conventions as they aren't consistent.

For the V8:

The InMotion app reports "Mainboard Temperature". In the live Wheellog screen this is reported as "System Temp" but in the Wheellog CSV it is recorded under the "Battery Temp" column (all data locations showed the same numeric value). Looking at my ride to work this morning in 30C ambient temperature (having left a 24C house) this value remains very constant only slowly creeping up from 25 to 40 degrees over my 20 minute ride with no erratic changes.

For the mystery value the Inmotion app has nothing. The real-time screen in Wheellog shows it as "CPU(?) Temp" but the CSV records this value as "System Temp". Note the inconsistency seen in the naming of the two temperatures (CPU, System, and Battery is used and System can refer to either value depending on the way you read the data (live or CSV) so caution is needed when reading the values). Looking at my ride in this morning (detailed above), this temperature started out at 30C and peaked at 47C towards the end. This temperature change, while showing a trend of increasing, was more erratic and jumped up and down by up to 5C between readings less than a quarter of a second apart at times. I don't see a correlating surge of power to account for the heat increase which is odd and would be expected if this were heatsink/MOSFET temperature.

It should be considered that given that there is a large amount of communication between the InMotion BMS and the mainboard this could indeed be a battery temperature (as suggested by a wheellog column title) but I cannot understand why the temperature would fluctuate so much if that were the case. I imagine these cells would retain heat and take more than a 1/4 second to gain multiple degrees given my load was quite low (500W general consumption).

Perhaps @palachzzz can chime in on the data sources and might want to fix the naming inconsistency between the live view and the CSV.

Edited August 3, 2018 by WARPed1701D
Palachzzz read my mind.

[palachzzz]

5 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Perhaps @palachzzz can chime in on the data sources and might want to fix the naming inconsistency between the live view and the CSV.

Thanks for notice, I fixed it right now, will be available in next release of WL.

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, maltocs said:

Could this be the number that causes the Overloads.... time for another test!

Go for it! I think there's a good possibility that we are seeing the heatsink temperature. Your next test will be revealing. I have only iOS to use at the moment and DarknessBot shows only one temperature measurement and it seems to be the same as the app. I will try to confirm later. 

 

[UniVehje]

9 hours ago, Demargon said:

It seems my v10f problem with the rim hit comes worsen. I been talking with the inmotion post sale department and they proposed a engine replacement for what I get a 400€ bill.

Sorry to see that happen to your new wheel. That sucks. 

A few things came to my mind when reading this:

First, my tire seem to leak air even after adding slime to it. At around 1 bar per two weeks. I recently had a reading of 2 bars just two weeks after filling up to 2.8 bars and I have slime in my tire. It is well possible that you have been riding with 2 or even less bars if you had a two or more weeks since last time pumping it. A tire with at least 2.8 bars should not allow the rim to touch ground even under a heavy jump. 

Second, I'm not really sure where the line should be whether this kind of damage should be under warranty or not. If you had a proper pressure, this must have been a really big jump. Or maybe an unfortunate stone hitting the side of the tire? Also, is the rim weaker than what is expected or not? Whether it's weak or not, the rim is not meant to touch ground in any circuimstance as long as the tire is not under inflated. What exactly is the manufacturer error here? I'm not taking sides, just pondering the situation. Pretty difficult to determine if this should go to warranty or a user error. I do get the point of their video showing pretty rough riding. However, they could be riding with well inflated tire.

Thirdly, I've seen this issue discussed recently on this forum. I don't remember the wheels in question, but there was some ideas of fixing it. Maybe you could try to save the 400€ and bend it back yourself? This should be done very carefully with a vice. You might find good instructions on this forum to do it. 

Fourth, this is good to know. I will keep this in mind when doing heavy riding. Thanks for sharing. I have done only about half a meter jumps and I'm planning to keep it at that level in the future. And keeping my tire inflated. 

[Demargon]

8 hours ago, maltocs said:

At your weight with the right tire pressure, you should be able to bounce off almost anything STRAIGHT ON without messing up your RIM.

That's what I think.

The painful news comes from the inmotion service: replace the engine each time you want a RIM fixing. Brilliant! In 3 repairs you almost paid a new v10f. Looks like another abuse from inmotion