New Inmotion V10 / V10F

[UniVehje]

Wow. After reading all the information above, I'm starting to think the best course of action for InMotion is to just recall all the wheels and send new ones from a better batch. Especially the DIY method sounds bad. How are we supposed to be able to inspect the wheel thoroughly in case of something being damaged already? What if I find some traces of water inside? What if I'm not able to seal it properly? 

If the fire has any connection to the water issue, then it's not just a matter of warranty covering any previous damage. 

[eufp]

26 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

If the fire has any connection to the water issue, then it's not just a matter of warranty covering any previous damage. 

The most interesting thing there is the next part:

------------------

The wheel did not turn on anymore and was not charged for 5-6 days, because became a brick.
The Inmotion plant recommended disconnecting/removing the battery from the device, but the instruction how to do it was not sent. Yesterday (on the date of the ignition of the wheel), he took off the motor-wheel, but could not remove the battery, he could only turn it off. Further, after an hour or five hours (he does not remember) the wheel burned.

------------------

It seems that something happened after the disassembly, otherwise the wheel could have not burst in flames. It sat for 5-6 days as a brick > was disassembled > started to burn.

This is the only thing that prevents me from going straight to the panic mode. Anyway, I will cancel my order for V10F until InMotion a) fixes the issue; b) assures us everything is good with a new batch; c) gives guarantees the wheel will not burst in flames during normal operation and charging.

Edited August 16, 2018 by eufp

[UniVehje]

9 minutes ago, eufp said:

It seems that something happened after the disassembly, otherwise the wheel could have not burst in flames. It sat for 5-6 days as a brick > was disassembled > started to burn.

Yep, good point. Could well have something to do with disassembling and messing up something. The batteries should have enough safety protection that they don't just burn. This is one reason the DIY solution might be a really bad idea. 

Anyway, still not enough information to panic. Any wheel from the new batch should be fine anyway. But us early adopters have something to worry about. 

[WaveCut]

1 minute ago, UniVehje said:

The batteries should have enough safety protection that they don't just burn.

And still it's not.
check out this note, the battery is barely protected comparing to competitors

 

[Nils]

I found this interesting bit of information that I hadn't seen before (courtesy of speedyfeet):

https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/blogs/things-concerning-safety/inmotion-v10f-waterproofing-issue

According to this any units shipped after May 5th should be good. Also provides rudimentary instructions on where to apply the silicon rubber (that picture could be clearer I think..), and suggest the entire wheel should be soaked in water if this happen and the outer shells reach temperatures above 50C.

[eufp]

9 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

(…) The batteries should have enough safety protection (…)

As WaveCut above linked, the batteries' compartment and the waterproofing are in a very sorry state as of now.

[440hz]

25 minutes ago, eufp said:

 

This is the only thing that prevents me from going straight to the panic mode. Anyway, I will cancel my order for V10F until InMotion a) fixes the issue; b) assures us everything is good with a new batch; c) gives guarantees the wheel will not burst in flames during normal operation and charging.

And again, i insist on the fact that knowing from which batch a wheel is coming from becomes paramount for safety reasons. 

[eufp]

2 minutes ago, 440hz said:

And again, i insist on the fact that knowing from which batch a wheel is coming from becomes paramount for safety reasons. 

That is why I have points b) and c) there

[Siggy]

@eufp Thanks for sharing this. This is essentially what happened. It's important to state the unit was 2-3 weeks old and working perfectly up until contact with light rain

 

@Glitched  As far as I know this problem is isolated to 1st batch wheels, those produced before May 6th, I believe are not sufficently water resistant. So far Inmotion state its been fixed for newer wheels. Now, my personal view is I wouldn't purchase from Inmotion until certain assurances have been made. 

 

I like Inmotion (owned and recommended several V8s) but they should have had an aggressive PR strategy, like Tesla, to deal with this. They've been lazy, passed the buck of blame to the owner, and have not made enough effort to to recall or contact every 1st batch owner AFAIK. Additionally, they've used some questionable hush tactics, as mentioned above towards my friend that I can not condone. Frankly, I've recommended swift legal action.

 

This is not an isolated issue.

 

This could happen with any devices with li ion batteries as they are flammable (phones, E wheels, etc). People are at risk. The issue is lack of waterproofed-ness and of course lack of company communication about the said issue. 

 

N.B. @Marty Backe @Toshio Uemura Whilst I certainly would feel the same way in your shoes, it’s slightly more complicated than that due to potential legal proceedings. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Siggy

[Nils]

2 hours ago, eufp said:

Regarding water, there is an interesting post here (Google Translate): https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fecodrift.ru%2Fwiki%2Fmonokolesa%2Fvoda_v_monokolese_inmotion_v10f_prichiny_posledstviya_i_chto_nuzhno_sdelat%2F&edit-text=&act=url

Thank you, finally we get some good information on the issue!

Combined with the other info I found from speedyfeet my understanding so far is that the DYI fix proposed by Inmotion would be to seal the crack between the two shells from within the wheel house. Any other interpretations? But then there's the issue brought in the post up with the sub par battery sealing as well.. A proper DYI then would probably not only to seal the crack but also reseal the battery properly.

With this post-mortem and the reported fire the problem definitely seems worse than some day ago, and to properly address it seems like it might require more work than just sealing the crack.

Also, that page also had a good video of the power display symptom - I had to watch the original Russian page for that to load though so here is directly for others to see:

 

[esaj]

Quote

"Yuri, we have already figured out. Let me tell you the details. He contacted us and reported that the V10F battery indicator is flashing. Then I checked the serial number and found out that this V10F belongs to an earlier lot. We told him that the reason for the glue, it's not enough on the bottom of the case, and you need to pull out the battery. I told him that the battery should be buried in damp sand or drowned. "

Wait, does that mean that the factory was telling the owner to remove the battery and place it somewhere where it could relatively safely go up in flames? They knew it was going to overheat and ignite sooner or later based on lot and flashing indicator?

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by esaj

[eufp]

13 minutes ago, Nils said:

Thank you, finally we get some good information on the issue!

You are very welcome! I have been quite a lurker here for several weeks, and have decided to give back some of my research to the community.

[MBIKER_SURFER]

1 hour ago, WaveCut said:

And still it's not.
check out this note, the battery is barely protected comparing to competitors

 

Thanks for this article - but I still don't feel comfortable witt my V10F.

Although I contacted my shop, I didn't get an answer within 24 hours - more than disappointing. Just keeping silent isn't nice for us customers 

[Stan Onymous]

Well so far we know two things. 1.) The batteries can catch fire on the InMotion for some reason.

2.) InMotion will put the blame on the owners in the guise of full disclosure.

This is the Hot Potato PR game. Keep tossing the blame til it burns someone who cant blame someone else.

Full disclosure is the ONLY way to deal with this problem. Full disclosure examines the faulty systems that led to the fire, and since the Company is responsible for manufacturing, lets not fool ourselves into blaming any customers getting familiar with their wheels for the accident in this case. The company had more than enough time to send a label or to reach out to distributors in that country for service. It is not a proper solution to blame the consumer for not having a contingency to deal with hazardous servicing of the wheel, which this apparently was. It seems to still be under Manufacturers warranty, and yes this is a new problem, but one that should have been planned for in worst case / best case charts.

For now it seems that the Company is just as much in the dark as the rest of us. This is a terrible corporate structure and we will all suffer from it if it is not fixed and prepared for in the future.

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, Siggy said:

@eufp Thanks for sharing this. This is essentially what happened. It's important to state the unit was 2-3 weeks old and working perfectly up until contact with light rain

 

@Glitched  As far as I know this problem is isolated to 1st batch wheels, those produced before May 6th, I believe are not sufficently water resistant. So far Inmotion state its been fixed for newer wheels. Now, my personal view is I wouldn't purchase from Inmotion until certain assurances have been made. 

 

I like Inmotion (owned and recommended several V8s) but they should have had an aggressive PR strategy, like Tesla, to deal with this. They've been lazy, passed the buck of blame to the owner, and have not made enough effort to to recall or contact every 1st batch owner AFAIK. Additionally, they've used some questionable hush tactics, as mentioned above towards my friend that I can not condone. Frankly, I've recommended swift legal action.

 

This is not an isolated issue.

 

This could happen with any devices with li ion batteries as they are flammable (phones, E wheels, etc). People are at risk. The issue is lack of waterproofed-ness and of course lack of company communication about the said issue. 

 

N.B. @Marty Backe @Toshio Uemura Whilst I certainly would feel the same way in your shoes, it’s slightly more complicated than that due to potential legal proceedings. 

Oh I understand. So we will all be left conjecturing what happened, and it seems that Inmotion wants to bury the story.

Without full disclosure from Inmotion, and knowing what water can do to these batteries, I would stay far away from the V10 unless you live in a desert.

It's amazing how the promise of the V10 turned into a disaster. 2-years from now all we're going to remember is the bad rollout of this wheel and it's problems. Fortunately for Inmotion many owners and potential owners never visit this Forum or similar sites.

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, WaveCut said:

And still it's not.
check out this note, the battery is barely protected comparing to competitors

 

Great article that you referenced. This reminds me of my pre-production V10F that stopped working and Inmotion later said it was because moisture got into the battery.

Unless Inmotion explains in detail (which I don't think they ever will) how they've made their battery packs better, I would never buy this wheel and will advocate against its purchase. The risks are too high. But that's just me.

[mezzanine]

18 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

 

Allow me one more thing to say: with the new standards set by the Segway-Ninebot Z, the industry will have a difficult time to come up with something new and better. Just more power, speed and range will simply not do it for unbiased users like me. The benchmark has significantly changed and people will soon realize it.

I don't like that we still call the current version of "Inmotion" by the same name as the original company before it was radically restructured.  The current version is Inmotion is taking advantage of the previous versions reputation in a way that prevents new customers from being aware that they are dealing with two different companies.  It couldn't be any clearer that the new version of "Inmotion" is trying to milk the reputation of the previous company for sales while short-cutting important design issues.  This is something I've been saying since the V10 was initially released BEFORE any of the problems became apparent.  

I have been saying the same thing about the Ninebot Z series.  It's why I've tried to counter the culture here that praises Gotway for simply making faster wheels, as though that represents "progress" for EUCs.  

 

[mezzanine]

And of course Marty feels the need to put a video in his sig.  

[esaj]

I haven't followed pretty much anything but KS/Gotway forums (and not everything even there) lately, and some random topics here and there, if there really are issues with V10 that aren't isolated cases, or at least could occur with anyone, if someone could make a topic (or point out where it is if it already exists) detailing these issues (and any possible workarounds) in the first post, I think we should pin it on top of the subforum.

Edited August 16, 2018 by esaj

[MBIKER_SURFER]

39 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

and knowing what water can do to these batteries, I would stay far away from the V10 unless you live in a desert.

 

Well - you aren't too far away from that......

[MBIKER_SURFER]

29 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I don't like that we still call the current version of "Inmotion" by the same name as the original company before it was radically restructured.   

Can you get more details about this? I am too new in the EUC scene, to be aware of 'two inmotion companies'!

[UniVehje]

22 minutes ago, esaj said:

I haven't followed pretty much anything but KS/Gotway forums (and not everything even there) lately, and some random topics here and there, if there really are issues with V10 that aren't isolated cases, or at least could occur with anyone, if someone could make a topic (or point out where it is if it already exists) detailing these issues (and any possible workarounds) in the first post, I think we should pin it on top of the subforum.

Maybe snip out from here on the first post with the fire issue. Pretty much nothing else has been discussed since. 

Are you (or others) aware of any previous cases of EUCs burning? 

[Glitched]

Well, for comparison's sake, does anyone know how the battery is wrapped in the v8? Could they really have cut dangerous safety corners on the v10f while charging double the price of the v8??

[UniVehje]

Just now, Glitched said:

Well, for comparison's sake, does anyone know how the battery is wrapped in the v8? Could they really have cut dangerous safety corners on the v10f while charging double the price of the v8??

Also, are there any pictures of later batches? They say it’s not a problem anymore but has the battery also been improved?

[Stan Onymous]

36 minutes ago, MBIKER_SURFER said:

Can you get more details about this? I am too new in the EUC scene, to be aware of 'two inmotion companies'!

He is speaking of Solowheel and InMotion as the combination. In the past, InMotion had Solowheel to answer to with respect to design quality and liabilities. Now its all InMotion full steam ahead. That means Chinese Corporate Chinanigans. Rushing out orders before the designs were fully finished. Cutting corners for a lack of timely parts manufacturing. Doing the bandaid/duct tape fixes instead of the real replacement fixes. Not honoring warranties comes next after blaming the customers becomes the accepted business model. It can go on and on.

InMotion does have the fix, thats why the V8’s never had this problem and thats why the V5F never had this problem. @Marty Backe showed this problem in his V10F experience, and the Company did nothing till now. So lets see what else this company will do, and if you have the InMotion app, maybe go on there and ask if others are having problems with their vehicles exploding. That may just get some heads turning towards the problem. It may give them other things to do rather than blaming the customers too.

One more thing. Dont just use any Silicone to do the repair yourself. Some silicone sealants can conduct electricity and this could short out the components if not done properly.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Stan Onymous