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New Inmotion V10 / V10F


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27 minutes ago, maltocs said:

You get a lot of messages and I'm sure you don't remember, one of my first communications with you was asking about the ACM2, the wheel I was most considering before had ever even seen a wheel in real life. I was looking for the ONE wheel that can do it all. Maybe it's true what they say about going with your gut. But in the end, I don't regret my decision to get the V10F. It's taught me a lot. As a newbie a few months ago, it was hard to understand the lingo on this forum and understand the nuances and personalities of different brands and wheels without experiencing it firsthand. BUT if I had to go back and do it all again....   I'd rather not say :)

Ug, you don't want to see my Forum Inbox or Gmail Inbox. But now that you mention it, I do remember your interest in the ACM. I think if that one you were asking me about was actually an ACM2 you would indeed have bought it.

I'll have to loan you one to convince you of the error of your ways :laughbounce2:

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Definitely don't want you to be stuck without a wheel, and you shouldn't have to be repairing a brand new one, so we are gonna make it right. Just got off a chat with @Bobwheel and we'll hook you up w

I agree that the company is too tight for the information about V10, and I am little upset too.  The reason we do this way is: We want to keep our engineer and manufacture teams away from distrac

Hey, I've been trolling this site (can you say voyeur) for about 3 months, decided to put my 2 cents in. First of all thank you for all of your input/info, this is the best site for quality info on EU

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13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Let me reiterate for others - there is no perfect wheel.

True, but there is your first wheel. That one you learn on, where you take your first awkward rides and wonder how anyone could do 10 feet much less 10 miles. Sometimes I think that if there was a wheel that experts loved it would still not be the wheel that a beginner should get. There is such a thing as a wheel you're not yet ready to handle. Plus, you never forget your first wheel.

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1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

We don’t know if the overload problem will be fixed or not. But this should be seen in the larger context, like you @maltocs said well. I totally agree with you. For a lighter built rider the V10F is absolutely fantastic wheel now that the new firmware seems to be finished. Really good combination of agility, off-road capability and smoothness. The power is there, speed is enough, safety is at the top, riding feel done right and build quality is very nice. And on top of these we have people representing the company writing here and listening to us power users. And don’t forget those lovely big and high pedals, the best app and quick ride settings. 

Even for a heavier rider the wheel is very good. I think these overload situations are quite rare for the vast majority of users. But I hope they get it even better. Hard to see any reason this 2000w motor couldn’t do what others can. 

Here’s a short clip from today’s ride with app overlay. Again riding the way I like the most; off-road and climbing new hills. Hard to see any other wheel being better for me (73 kg) for this kind of riding. 18” wheels could go even better OVER stuff and 14” could move even better AROUND stuff. This tire is a good combination for both. Smooth and agile. 

 

I pushed mine up a 10% hill and got as high as 2460W.  No overload.  Was going 20mph up the hill.  But I'm only 145lbs.

Edited by eddiemoy
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3 hours ago, Glitched said:

As someone whose only got experience with one wheel (f260), I'm not really making much sense of the analogies here. I get the v10 may be a good 10-15 lbs heavier than some others, and how it may be harder to carve around tight spaces with it as a result (I don't really know for sure, just assuming). But not really following how the v10 isn't very good as a versatilist?

The v10 sounds like a tesla with its smoothness and torque, albeit not from a start. Also less nimble than the tesla due to the v10 being top heavy and slightly wider tire (similar weight, so can't be that). Though the v10 agility deficiency maybe could be chalked up to a learning curve people need to ride through to get equal or better nimbleness than on, say, a Tesla.  I recently watched a youtube video of a slalom match between the tesla and v10, and the v10 was ahead overall.

I've also read the v10 is very well built, sturdy etc, not prone to break apart like maybe a tesla might on harder impacts. It's also got a 2.5" wide tire, which the tesla doesn't IIRC (2.1").  So why is the v10 not a 'good' off-road EUC? Does the way it handles bumps and other off-road situations make it a subjectively worse experience than off-roading on say a Tesla, KS16S, or even v8? And why exactly?

I've read someone on here say an 18" will be their off-roader (a Z10 or KS18L), but an MCM5 at 14" could be better than the v10 for off-roading as well?? Someone please untangle this for me, lol.  I'm very close to getting a v10f myself... (140lbs and pretty flat terrain here so hoping I won't trigger overloads)

As I always say, - There is no perfect wheel for all types of riding, so jump into something you want to drive now.The V10 has a very fluid ride like the V8 and you can do a 180 spin with very little practice due to the extra weight. The acceleration is much much different than a Gotway, whether it be Tesla or otherwise. It has a more Rolls Royce, Jaguar acceleration where the tesla has a well, um, a Tesla car feel of acceleration.

The V10 is a Fantastic ride and totally meant for off roading. It really shines through 1-2” deep sand. The size of the MCM5 14” wheel is fine for off roading as well. The mcm5 weight is attacrive for a wheel, if you are off roading to the fullest, you may need to carry out of a deep ditch. The motor is so powerful on that thing! I have no idea how strong the shell is on the MCM5, but there is probably some rubber seal all tape you could cover the impact areas with to keep it together. The shell pieces are pretty cheap and available anyway on Ali baba.

I have an 18” wheel, and although I do take it offroading to all the parks, it really shines on the roads being heavy, stable, and smooth riding due to the large tire.

I think you will want to also factor in range since you will be on that thing for hours once you start getting the flow. The V10 gives me 31+ miles at over 20 mph with 29% battery power left. You will probably get similar results being a little lighter than me. I dont know about the MCM5, probably similar. If you have big potholes, the higher pedals and fatter tire of the V10 will be at the advantage. If the roads are smoother and a lighter vehicle is your thing, than the MCM5 may be your choice. The V10 looks so much better on a stand, unless you like gills on a wheel. ?‍♂️

Edited by Stan Onymous
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12 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

As I always say, - There is no perfect wheel for all types of riding, so jump into something you want to drive now.The V10 has a very fluid ride like the V8 and you can do a 180 spin with very little practice due to the extra weight. The acceleration is much much different than a Gotway, whether it be Tesla or otherwise. It has a more Rolls Royce, Jaguar acceleration where the tesla has a well, um, a Tesla car feel of acceleration.

The V10 is a Fantastic ride and totally meant for off roading. It really shines through 1-2” deep sand. The size of the MCM5 14” wheel is fine for off roading as well. The mcm5 weight is attacrive for a wheel, if you are off roading to the fullest, you may need to carry out of a deep ditch. The motor is so powerful on that thing! I have no idea how strong the shell is on the MCM5, but there is probably some rubber seal all tape you could cover the impact areas with to keep it together. The shell pieces are pretty cheap and available anyway on Ali baba.

I have an 18” wheel, and although I do take it offroading to all the parks, it really shines on the roads being heavy, stable, and smooth riding due to the large tire.

I think you will want to also factor in range since you will be on that thing for hours once you start getting the flow. The V10 gives me 31+ miles at over 20 mph with 29% battery power left. You will probably get similar results being a little lighter than me. I dont know about the MCM5, probably similar. If you have big potholes, the higher pedals and fatter tire of the V10 will be at the advantage. If the roads are smoother and a lighter vehicle is your thing, than the MCM5 may be your choice. The V10 looks so much better on a stand, unless you like gills on a wheel. ?‍♂️

Bill, have you ridden the Tesla? To be honest, although they ride different, I'm not sure they are that different :lol:

I think the MCM5 shell is plenty tough. I've yet to have any Gotway shell actually crack on me. There are a couple of front/back pieces (like on the Mten3 & Tesla) that can pop off in a crash, but they seem to be make of really tough stuff.

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45 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Bill, have you ridden the Tesla? To be honest, although they ride different, I'm not sure they are that different :lol:

I think the MCM5 shell is plenty tough. I've yet to have any Gotway shell actually crack on me. There are a couple of front/back pieces (like on the Mten3 & Tesla) that can pop off in a crash, but they seem to be make of really tough stuff.

I have not had the pleasure to ride a Tesla, but I have seen them perform in videos, and the ride looks much different although as high riding. It accelerates in an instant from what I have seen. Thats very different, and the stance always looks much more upright from yours and the New York crew videos. Its that rapid speed that may make the lean on a slower V10 that the Tesla may have more the ability to buck you off on tight spacing heavy lateral leaning serpentines. I just didnt see that. I saw the speed bike leans in yours and others, but not the back and forth like in a @Rama Douglas ride style. Oh I am sure you could do it, its just that vehicle allows for a lot more speed than makes that type of manuevering safe or necessary.

I think I ride with more abandon off road, because I have already cracked the KS14c I bought from you within the first month. Your wheels always look concourse fresh. I think it even sparkled. If he is going offroad he can practically let the V10F bounce down a hill. I found a skate park the other day that the hoodlums sneak into. Metal gets very hot during the day! The V10 got away with fewer scrapes and a lot less burns than me on my wipeouts. All the ramps were metal too, so I need a lot more practice, but the V10 is totally ready for it. I cant speak about the durability of the gotways, but I did see shells for $15 at that greenhorse alibaba place or there a-bouts and there is always that rubber tape Flex-all for that concourse freshness after wipeouts and run offs down gravel and dirt hills.

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24 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

I have not had the pleasure to ride a Tesla, but I have seen them perform in videos, and the ride looks much different although as high riding. It accelerates in an instant from what I have seen. Thats very different, and the stance always looks much more upright from yours and the New York crew videos. Its that rapid speed that may make the lean on a slower V10 that the Tesla may have more the ability to buck you off on tight spacing heavy lateral leaning serpentines. I just didnt see that. I saw the speed bike leans in yours and others, but not the back and forth like in a @Rama Douglas ride style. Oh I am sure you could do it, its just that vehicle allows for a lot more speed than makes that type of manuevering safe or necessary.

I think I ride with more abandon off road, because I have already cracked the KS14c I bought from you within the first month. Your wheels always look concourse fresh. I think it even sparkled. If he is going offroad he can practically let the V10F bounce down a hill. I found a skate park the other day that the hoodlums sneak into. Metal gets very hot during the day! The V10 got away with fewer scrapes and a lot less burns than me on my wipeouts. All the ramps were metal too, so I need a lot more practice, but the V10 is totally ready for it. I cant speak about the durability of the gotways, but I did see shells for $15 at that greenhorse alibaba place or there a-bouts and there is always that rubber tape Flex-all for that concourse freshness after wipeouts and run offs down gravel and dirt hills.

That's the way to ride :cheers:

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Got this depressing message from Jason today:

"Our order with Inmotion is currently months behind schedule; of the first 100x V10Fs we paid for back in March, only 30x have been delivered. Inmotion still haven't given us any guidance on when to expect the next shipment. "

A couple of weeks ago he said I was first in line for the next batch of V10Fs, as I had made my preorder long before ANY wheels had hit our shores. I had even been given the option to get one of the first production wheels shipped by air from China, which I was going to take him up on, but then I had my crash and tore up my knee, so I gave up my place in that line knowing I would be out of commission for 3 months. I figured someone else might as well get it since I wouldn't be able to use it.

Now that I'm healed and riding again, I was getting pumped for delivery of one of the V10F wheels due in the 2nd/3rd week of July. Looks like that won't be happening. ?

Jason suggested I might consider getting a different wheel. Meanwhile I'm riding a V5F. I guess that's OK, tho, as I'm still pretty green. However, I was hoping one of the new wheels with a 17 or 18" tire would be a bit more stable and easy to ride.

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26 minutes ago, kjon12 said:

Jason suggested I might consider getting a different wheel. Meanwhile I'm riding a V5F. I guess that's OK, tho, as I'm still pretty green. However, I was hoping one of the new wheels with a 17 or 18" tire would be a bit more stable and easy to ride.

They are easier to ride over bumpy terrain, but the V10F is nearly twice the weight of the V5F and you will feel that above and below the knees in those muscles for the first couple of big rides. The bigger 18” and 16” wheels are easier to ride in a straight line over potholed streets without worry tho.

Do you want to do hills, and you are in Seattle? Ask @Marty Backe if the MCM5 is better than his KS14S was on the streets. The mcm5 has a ton of power for the hills and it may be extremely capable on the road over rough terrain using that power to stay upright over a pothole. The slick roads are something to think about too, so check out the thread about - MCM5 first Impressions- and see if you like it. It may just be the real darkhorse wheel this summer as far as overall capabilities.

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55 minutes ago, maltocs said:

Is there an easier way?

You pretty much got it. But looks like you are using an iPhone. Go to settings -> control center -> customize (i’m not sure what it says in english, the second row) -> and add screen recording to your control center. Then just flick down and hit the recording. Do some screen flick sideways in a way that you see it on your other camera so you can easily time the two footages exactly right. I use LumaFusion on an iPad to edit, really easy and fun to use. I don’t know what you use but adding an overlay footage should not be very difficult. 

Btw, maybe the sideways screen might be even better. It allows many more options to be visible. Just tap the one you want to be prominent. 

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1 hour ago, maltocs said:

Here is a quick and dirty video of three overloads with my weight on the V10F using prerelease v2.2.7 software at the local hilly hiking park in Los Angeles, CA shot today in 95 F weather. 

 

Nice video and good camera. Great looking place to ride also. This behaviour is totally strange to me. Those hills look like something I would do easily. I have tried to find the most challenging hills and always try to climb them. As it’s not temperature or watts it must be something else. The dasboard view shows more things live, current, torque, acceleration etc.  

Do you find the classic mode to be better for this? I use comfort mode at the moment. And I set the footboard sensitiity to the soft side, feels easier to climb. 

I have not really found any asphalt roads that are steep enough to be a challenge. They are all off-road and therefore I haven’t recorded climbing in max speed like @eddiemoy

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1 hour ago, Bobwheel said:

I'd like to share some insight about the temperature showed on App,  and we've noticed there's lots of confusion. 

Actually the temperature we read from the App is not from the heat sink, but from one of the core processors on the control board, and V8/V10 all do the same way. The engineers had been concerning that the temperature from the heat sink might frighten off riders because they thought it would be a much higher degree. Here is the thing, the "overload " is triggered by the temperature of the heat sink, which means it has no connection with the temperature showed on App for now. 

Apparently it's not wise, and we'll make it right someday. 

 

@Bobwheel Bob, so you confirm that there is no design issue and that the 'overload' problem that +200lbs people are facing, is temp related and that will be fixed via firmware?

Is my understanding correct?

Thanks

Edited by Fastmike
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42 minutes ago, Bobwheel said:

is triggered by the temperature of the heat sink

Thanks much for this info - very helpful, btw, this heat sink - where it's located, mounted on which wheel component?

My V10F is on the way to me, due to land in a few days,

getting prepared.. :)

Edited by Mystic Traveller
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33 minutes ago, Fastmike said:

Bob, so you confirm that there is no design issue and that the 'overload' problem that +200lbs people are facing, is temp related and that will be fixed via firmware?

Is my understanding correct?

Thanks

My understanding is that the issue is a design one, not a firmware issue. Inmotion set a threshold for a certain heat sink temperature.

As heat sink or cooling cannot be changed and are design related, the only thing that could fix this issue is either to limit violent efforts on wheel - ie acceleration - OR set a higher threshold for heat warnings. 

For the latter case, I assume current threshold is based on components tolerance, so there is limited chance this changes. Curious to see next steps.

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4 hours ago, maltocs said:

 

Here is a quick and dirty video of three overloads with my weight on the V10F using prerelease v2.2.7 software at the local hilly hiking park in Los Angeles, CA shot today in 95 F weather. 

I’m new to video editing so I’m going to ask @eddiemoy and @UniVehje how to embed the real time InMotion app screen into to the video as I don't know of any other app that connects to the wheel at this point. The only way I figured out how to do this is use the android version of the app, make the screen to never timeout, use a screen recorder, and keep the phone upright and on the entire time hoping to never accidentally change the screen.orientation or change apps while muting all notifications. Then while editing, somehow try to match the screen video to the actual action cam video. Is there an easier way?

 

Yes, that is basically it.  Record the screen with audio.  Then do the clapping in the beginning and end to use that as a sync key.  Different devices will not match up exactly.  So it is important to sync at the end too and be able to retime things.  You can’t believe how much of a drift there is in a few minutes.  Also the inmotion app refresh is pretty darn slow.  

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1 hour ago, Bobwheel said:

I'd like to share some insight about the temperature showed on App,  and we've noticed there's lots of confusion. 

Actually the temperature we read from the App is not from the heat sink, but from one of the core processors on the control board, and V8/V10 all do the same way. The engineers had been concerning that the temperature from the heat sink might frighten off riders because they thought it would be a much higher degree. Here is the thing, the "overload " is triggered by the temperature of the heat sink, which means it has no connection with the temperature showed on App for now. 

Apparently it's not wise, and we'll make it right someday. 

 

So to some things up InMotion does not make a wheel for people that weigh more than 150 pounds unless you live in a cold flat place and like to go slow.  Sorry for the bluntness but people keep recommending these wheels to people over 200 pounds.  I had to find out the hard way.  I wasted money and time.

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21 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

So to some things up InMotion does not make a wheel for people that weigh more than 150 pounds unless you live in a cold flat place and like to go slow.  Sorry for the bluntness but people keep recommending these wheels to people over 200 pounds.  I had to find out the hard way.  I wasted money and time.

I would say let's wait for @Bobwheel 's confirmation that the issue can be fixed via firmware by adjusting thresholds better, or if that will need a physical modification on the wheel.

In that last case, a bunch of people are going to cancel their preorder...

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That sound's bad….in my opinion….

Seams when trying to get the Wheel a bit "powerless" the Speed warnings and all other Things were triggered like we have seen on one of Eddie Moys Video.

Or they "free" the Wheel, let the power out and then it starts to overheat...which unfortunatly you cant even see as the temperature doesnt measure mosfets/heatsinks!

But hey...there is a solution:

Just add a fan and an Opening to the case -(fan was promised anyway if i remember correctly?)- and blow the heat away. At least that might help to a certain Degree....

Perhaps someone builds a nice watercooling for the heatsink as a part :-)

 

So seams like IM is running into the same Problems as other EUC companys have done with their first real powerfull wheels.

KS18A first 1200 Watt versions suffered nearly the same Problem: solution for heavy riders was also, to build in a fan and an Opening on the board….otherwise on hill climbing you would have had the same Problems.

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Just now, MBIKER_SURFER said:

We first should know, which temperature exactly triggers the overload? And what is the temperature at that time on the MOSFET?

Exactly! Reason why I asked Bob for his input. It might be just bad tables in firmware that can be software adjusted, or undersized components to face the heat generated... only InMotion can tell. I hope they have learned from older models and other brands and will fix this as they did for other issues so far.

If an hardware upgrade is required, since a design fault, they can also take the engagement to correct it at no charge, but again, them to confirm. We are all making speculation at this time and there is no need to go ballistic (speaking to myself   :w00t2:!) with the few information we have, even if frustrating.

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