dmethvin Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 19 hours ago, Michael Vu said: And she says "Take care" twice in a row to try to get your attention. Unfortunately that wasn't enough to prevent my first (and worst) crash I had on an EUC. Although to be honest, I'm not sure I would have paid attention until I had my first high-speed faceplant. There probably should be a post-faceplant voice that says "I WARNED YOU!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 3:55 AM, Michael Vu said: Kingsong's having 2 or 4 speakers is yet another case why Kingsong's are the best wheel when it comes to safety. Just for accuracy, I'd like to point out (at least for one I own, 14c, and I believe the 16s also) the beeper is a separate part from the speakers. Speed warning beeps come from the beeper. Spoken warnings come from the speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 12:41 AM, Marty Backe said: I hope someday they move away from the buzzer and instead use a proper LOUD speaker. And ideally the volume of the sound would vary as the speed of the wheel varies. It would be loudest at high speeds. What I can easily hear going 30 kph on an isolated bicycle trail becomes impossible to hear on a road where trucks and cars go by at 35 mph +. Even if I'm specifically listening for any sound from my wheel, it's simply impossible to hear through the tire and engine rumble of vehicles. I mean, go full blast on a KS14/16 and what sounds embarrassingly loud on isolated streets can't be heard even a tiny bit on well traveled roads. Knowing and embracing tilt back is an integral part of riding wheels at least a bit safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 46 minutes ago, LanghamP said: What I can easily hear going 30 kph on an isolated bicycle trail becomes impossible to hear on a road where trucks and cars go by at 35 mph +. Even if I'm specifically listening for any sound from my wheel, it's simply impossible to hear through the tire and engine rumble of vehicles. I mean, go full blast on a KS14/16 and what sounds embarrassingly loud on isolated streets can't be heard even a tiny bit on well traveled roads. Knowing and embracing tilt back is an integral part of riding wheels at least a bit safely. I'm never going to embrace tilt-back. And btw, I don't think tilt-back kicks in at the same time as the 3rd alarm. Or does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 48 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I'm never going to embrace tilt-back. And btw, I don't think tilt-back kicks in at the same time as the 3rd alarm. Or does it? Embrace reminds me of a famous quote: “Come, Quin,” said his lordship, ”push about the bottle. I know what your end will be—you will either be hanged, or die of the pox.” “That depends, my lord,” retorted Quin, “whether I embrace your lordship’s mistress or your principles.” 3rd alarm for all my wheels can be set aside from tiltback. Tiltback is a pain but it affords a bulletproof way of your wheel to bitch at you without fail when it "thinks" it comes close to dumping you. Of course, with the way wheels are set up, you still might exceed the wheel without a tiltback being triggered. I suspect in the near future all wheels will tiltback when more than a certain wattage is being pulled, in addition to tiltback when higher speeds is reached. Right now there's no agreed upon standard, and some of these tiltbacks are brutal especially if you have quick reactions. I think the sleepy tired drunk guy has a better chance staying on his wheel than the young alert guy, when tiltback is triggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 27 minutes ago, LanghamP said: Embrace reminds me of a famous quote: “Come, Quin,” said his lordship, ”push about the bottle. I know what your end will be—you will either be hanged, or die of the pox.” “That depends, my lord,” retorted Quin, “whether I embrace your lordship’s mistress or your principles.” 3rd alarm for all my wheels can be set aside from tiltback. Tiltback is a pain but it affords a bulletproof way of your wheel to bitch at you without fail when it "thinks" it comes close to dumping you. Of course, with the way wheels are set up, you still might exceed the wheel without a tiltback being triggered. I suspect in the near future all wheels will tiltback when more than a certain wattage is being pulled, in addition to tiltback when higher speeds is reached. Right now there's no agreed upon standard, and some of these tiltbacks are brutal especially if you have quick reactions. I think the sleepy tired drunk guy has a better chance staying on his wheel than the young alert guy, when tiltback is triggered. But does the tilt-back (if enabled) also occur when the 3rd alarm is activated? I think that's what happened on my KS14C, but I've never enabled tilt-back (except for experimentation) on my Gotway wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 38 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: But does the tilt-back (if enabled) also occur when the 3rd alarm is activated? I think that's what happened on my KS14C, but I've never enabled tilt-back (except for experimentation) on my Gotway wheels. I know what you're saying. You might have inadvertently turned off the alarms and tiltback which is oh so madingly easy to do with <any> of the gotway/KS applications, including WheelLog. Since most of the alarms are switches (click once to turn off, click once to turn on), and there's no feedback telling you if they are on/off, I turn on everything, then set the speed, test, then turn off 1st and 2nd alarm. I put the tiltback about 2-10 mph below the 3rd alarm as that way it feels like I hit 3rd alarm at the same time as tiltback. If you set them at the same speed then it feels like tiltback comes way too late. Audio clues are really bad as danger signals since you're actively ignoring noise when your environment is loud, so if you set 3rd alarm the same speed as tiltback you'll blow right through 3rd alarm without registering it, or, god forbid, no tiltback at all. Being placed on hold, then having muzak interrupted with, "please hold for next available person" is irritating because your mind has to process the input rather than <just> not hear muzak. I use "the German application" for the Gotway speed settings because you get a verbal and physical cue whenever you change a speed setting whereas WheelLog you're never quite sure if the setting really took. And those settings <must> be within the wheel; not on the application but on the wheel itself because the cell phone connection is reliably unreliable. Whoever said wheels are like general aviation is completely correct. Set and confirm, set and confirm, because there is no "riding out" an inappropriately set wheel. I know it's a pain to check over your wheel anytime you change a setting but that's when you're likely to crash your wheel. Too long, didn't read: --Set alarms at the wheel level since all else is unreliable. --Make sure you have a confirmation for all your alarms. --Use tiltback as a different and unusual cue in case you cannot hear the audio cues, as your environment may be too loud and you're actively ignoring noise. --You'll react much quicker to tiltback than to an audio cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I'm never going to embrace tilt-back. And btw, I don't think tilt-back kicks in at the same time as the 3rd alarm. Or does it? Tiltback on a KS i a „own“ alarm, so the answer is No. Tiltbakc CAN be set to the same speed as 3rd alarm...but normally it is on its own. I honestly dont have any problems with tiltback. Sure i am not happy, getting it, but i dont find it to be uncomfortable, just that it reminds me of not going faster. I does not „kick“ me from the wheel. Thing is to understand that the tiltback in fact IS. agressive...when yoou accelerate very fast over the tiltback speed. say the TB speed is 30....and you try to accelerate from 25-35 in 2 seconds! Than it gets agressive, because it has to counteract the very fast acceleration. If you reach the 30 (in this example) by a slow and steady getting faster, the tiltback is only mild and moderate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, LanghamP said: which is oh so madingly easy to do with <any> of the gotway/KS applications, including WheelLog. Since most of the alarms are switches (click once to turn off, click once to turn on), and there's no feedback telling you if they are on/off, I turn on everything, then set the speed, test, then turn off 1st and 2nd alarm. I put the tiltback about 2-10 mph below the 3rd alarm as that way it feels like I hit 3rd alarm at the same time as tiltback. If you set them at the same speed then it feels like tiltback comes way to About which wheel are you talking? On Gotways you can not set the 3rd alarm....on KS it is not possible to set the 3rd alarm lower than tiltback.... Edit...Sorry, now i got it....you set the tiltback lower than your 3rd alarm on the GW.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, LanghamP said: I know what you're saying. You might have inadvertently turned off the alarms and tiltback which is oh so madingly easy to do with <any> of the gotway/KS applications, including WheelLog. Since most of the alarms are switches (click once to turn off, click once to turn on), and there's no feedback telling you if they are on/off, I turn on everything, then set the speed, test, then turn off 1st and 2nd alarm. I put the tiltback about 2-10 mph below the 3rd alarm as that way it feels like I hit 3rd alarm at the same time as tiltback. If you set them at the same speed then it feels like tiltback comes way too late. Audio clues are really bad as danger signals since you're actively ignoring noise when your environment is loud, so if you set 3rd alarm the same speed as tiltback you'll blow right through 3rd alarm without registering it, or, god forbid, no tiltback at all. Being placed on hold, then having muzak interrupted with, "please hold for next available person" is irritating because your mind has to process the input rather than <just> not hear muzak. I use "the German application" for the Gotway speed settings because you get a verbal and physical cue whenever you change a speed setting whereas WheelLog you're never quite sure if the setting really took. And those settings <must> be within the wheel; not on the application but on the wheel itself because the cell phone connection is reliably unreliable. Whoever said wheels are like general aviation is completely correct. Set and confirm, set and confirm, because there is no "riding out" an inappropriately set wheel. I know it's a pain to check over your wheel anytime you change a setting but that's when you're likely to crash your wheel. Too long, didn't read: --Set alarms at the wheel level since all else is unreliable. --Make sure you have a confirmation for all your alarms. --Use tiltback as a different and unusual cue in case you cannot hear the audio cues, as your environment may be too loud and you're actively ignoring noise. --You'll react much quicker to tiltback than to an audio cue. To be clear, the 3rd alarm is not a fixed speed, at least on the Tesla. I have proven that the Tesla 3rd alarm is an actual 80-percent power alarm. So there is no way to use tilt-back with it. The only reason that I would enable tilt-back is if it would occur at the same time that the 3rd alarm is triggered. Since that can't happen I won't be enabling tilt-back. 2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: About which wheel are you talking? On Gotways you can not set the 3rd alarm....on KS it is not possible to set the 3rd alarm lower than tiltback.... Edit...Sorry, now i got it....you set the tiltback lower than your 3rd alarm on the GW.... Tilt-back on my KS14S feels too aggressive to me. I don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: ilt-back on my KS14S feels too aggressive to me. I don't like it Who in the world likes tiltback? Thats why i and all i know have the 3rd alarm a bit lower, so that we dont need to run into tiltback, or? For me thats the main reason, why i like 40/50kmh wheels :-) So that i never ever have to think about tiltback and alarms again! Its a dream on my 18S....no beeps, no tiltback....no matter how i drive. My natural border is something about 38/40 max :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: To be clear, the 3rd alarm is not a fixed speed, at least on the Tesla. I have proven that the Tesla 3rd alarm is an actual 80-percent power alarm. So there is no way to use tilt-back with it. The only reason that I would enable tilt-back is if it would occur at the same time that the 3rd alarm is triggered. Since that can't happen I won't be enabling tilt-back. Tilt-back on my KS14S feels too aggressive to me. I don't like it. That is why, in my opinion, tiltback should be a percentage of <something> and not a hardcoded speed, and a big reason I don't ride my wheels to below 60% most of the time. Eventually they'll get tiltback sorted out right. Interestingly, I think the KS16s doesn't follow that model, and reduces tiltback speed in lockstep with 3rd (?) alarm until, finally, it kicks you off. It's too easy to find yourself in deep deep trouble when you're on a fully-charged GW1600, on a nice day, with a full-face helmet. All those physical cues are mutes the speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, LanghamP said: Interestingly, I think the KS16s doesn't follow that model, and reduces tiltback speed in lockstep with 3rd (?) alarm until, finally, it kicks you off. yip, All KS speed alarms are battery related....means 3rd alarm and tiltback go proportional lower after the speed reducement sets in at 25-30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: yip, All KS speed alarms are battery related....means 3rd alarm and tiltback go proportional lower after the speed reducement sets in at 25-30%. Gotways are so dangerous even their safety alarms are designed to make you crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 7 hours ago, LanghamP said: That is why, in my opinion, tiltback should be a percentage of <something> and not a hardcoded speed, and a big reason I don't ride my wheels to below 60% most of the time. Eventually they'll get tiltback sorted out right. Interestingly, I think the KS16s doesn't follow that model, and reduces tiltback speed in lockstep with 3rd (?) alarm until, finally, it kicks you off. It's too easy to find yourself in deep deep trouble when you're on a fully-charged GW1600, on a nice day, with a full-face helmet. All those physical cues are mutes the speed. I ride all my wheels to 15% or less with no problems. I just don't push super hard or go very fast once I'm in the 25% range. 60% seems way too conservative, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duaner Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I ride all my wheels to 15% or less with no problems. I just push super hard or go very fast once I'm in the 25% range. 60% seems way too conservative, IMHO. Is the 15% while riding or while standing still? On both my KS16b and ACM, once I hit 30% (while standing still) the battery is so low while riding, the speed is substantially reduced; soon thereafter even climbing a mild incline will hit the "80%" alarm at 10mph or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, duaner said: Is the 15% while riding or while standing still? On both my KS16b and ACM, once I hit 30% (while standing still) the battery is so low while riding, the speed is substantially reduced; soon thereafter even climbing a mild incline will hit the "80%" alarm at 10mph or less. That's under load. Just to be clear, that's towards the end of the ride where I'm riding at 10+ mph. When I go for long 40 to 50 mile rides, it's only the last ~5 miles that I'm forced to slow down due to the 80% alarm. On my Gotway wheels, when I see that my battery is approaching 20% (under load) I know my riding will be ending relatively soon. I was just responding to @LanghamP that I fully enjoy my wheels down to at least 25% (under load) battery, quite often still riding above 20-mph. I'm usually above 40-miles for the ride before needing to concern myself with battery levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 2/6/2018 at 11:58 PM, Marty Backe said: I was just responding to @LanghamP that I fully enjoy my wheels down to at least 25% (under load) battery, quite often still riding above 20-mph. I'm usually above 40-miles for the ride before needing to concern myself with battery levels. Due to the deterioration in power below 60% for all my wheels, that's it for me when I get that low. I ride it home, I do not mess around in any way when wheels feel lackluster, it's just too dangerous with soggy pedals if you weight 215 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourtoys7 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 1/20/2018 at 10:02 PM, Rehab1 said: You have a excellent idea! There is no reason why EUC manufacturers could not develop software to transmit an audio and/or vibratory alert to your phone via Bluetooth. Im waiting for that day, would love to just ride and listen to music and hear.... 45km/h, 50 km/h SLooooow down, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 15 hours ago, yourtoys7 said: Im waiting for that day, would love to just ride and listen to music and hear.... 45km/h, 50 km/h SLooooow down, lol There is only one appropriate sound when you're approaching a faceplant, the Wilhelm Scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 2/14/2018 at 6:08 PM, dmethvin said: the Wilhelm Scream. That was absolutely fricking hilarious. I want the Wilhelm scream as my third alarm, or better still, coincidently with high speed tilt back. It will save me the trouble. Maybe I could add "call 911" on the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 2/6/2018 at 2:53 PM, KingSong69 said: Who in the world likes tiltback? I kinda like tiltback. But I'm an outlier. Maybe it's just my riding experience on the Ninebot One E+, but the gradual tilt as it approaches 20-22 kph is easily noticeable so you can "feel" the speed without needing any beeping to warn you. The more rapid tiltback isn't that alarming, but the aggressive low battery one is pretty startling if you aren't expecting it. To say all tiltback features are bad is probably generalizing too much when it can actually be a helpful aid when riding. If my Ninebot could go up to 55 kph and had a 1020 wh battery, I'd still appreciate a gradual tiltback as I neared 47-50 kph. If the pedals starts to tilt up slowly it really encourages you to slow down so I find it a very natural feedback loop. Gotway could add in a vibration buzzer (like in a pager or phone) attached to the side panel and activate it along with the beep if their wheels approach the limit. It would have to be strong enough to be felt at speed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Gotway could add in a vibration buzzer (like in a pager or phone) attached to the side panel and activate If you can convince GW to add a vibrator on their wheels it just might put a smile on my wife’s face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: kinda like tiltback. me too. i think i’ve only felt it when the 9bots and ks-16s were in speed restricted mode but all were gentle and helpful. didn’t care too much for kingsong’s “declerate” warning. i was going so slow i thought it was saying “accelerate”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 5 hours ago, Rehab1 said: If you can convince GW to add a vibrator on their wheels it just might put a smile on my wife’s face. If I was @Hunka Hunka Burning Love I could make an insensitive, sexist joke right now. But I won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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