The New Solowheel

[codersarepeople]

It's not just Jason that you're affecting here; it's the customers! I am glad I bought a V5F+ before this, because the price rose drastically with only a small firmware change. (BTW I bought the V5F+ with the rumor that it would soon be getting a firmware update, but I guess that's not happening either). That said, V5F+ is my favorite EUC out of the 4 I've owned (MSuper V3S, KingSong KS14C, Ninebot One E+, and V5F+)

I know you're well intentioned but let me give you the point of view of a consumer here:

I met a nice man at the International Juggling Association convention this summer (IJA) around 55-60 years old who had purchased for ~$2k a solowheel extreme secondhand. He was REALLY excited about it, but pretty bummed about its speed, and clearly $2k was a lot of money to him.  For $500 less, I told him he could have gotten a Gotway MSuper V3S with better speed, battery life, and in my opinion, good reliability! I felt really bad that he had spent so much, but he clearly had done so out of a lack of knowledge. It made me feel that Solowheel was simply preying on those who didn't know enough.

 

As to your IP claims, it doesn't make sense. First of all, I'm doubtful of Solowheel's IP claims (see: https://youtu.be/IxB2j-egWcQ?t=46m1s and Jason's info as well). Second, other companies seem to be okay with not respecting US IP (Gotway, KingSong, Segway/Ninebot, IPS). In that scenario, you MUST start doing the same to compete, or the company will die.

From my opinion as an outsider, solowheel must be existing only due to a lack of knowledge of the users, something that will catch up to them if they don't start to actually compete.

Let me add to what I said above: It's not that I don't respect IP claims. I do. Articles like this (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-china-counterfeit-20150531-story.html) give me great sympathy for Solowheel. But all that goodwill is lost when you continually miss deadlines, and charge more than double the price for less than half the wheel offered by these other companies.

[US69]

5 hours ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

12 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

 

I'm glad you brought that up! The Iota is actually staying with Inventist, so our Solowheel team isn't running that project. By that I mean, it's not a result of our partnership with InMotion. While I'm not affiliated with Iota, I can tell you that just like many other crowdfunded projects, the unfortunate delay is due to developing a new product that is breaking ground in a few different areas. I've seen the earlier prototype with my own eyes, and it's a tiny little sight to behold. They will get it all ironed out! If there are any Iota backers reading this, you can reach out to Inventist if you have any questions or concerns, but I am happy to relay a message

"Unfortunatly" the Iota is not called the inventist Iota...it is called the Solowheel iota, so it is funny to say that Solowheel isnt running that project. As it was announced to release in September 2017 and Solowheel is not even able to provide a ETA at the moment, just something like "we are getting closer to announce the ETA", it is hard to believe to that the happy speach we see here is anything different to that on the kickstarter and indigogo page. Sorry for beeing sceptical...

[meepmeepmayer]

10 hours ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

I understand your skepticism, but we didn't partner with InMotion and start a new team in San Diego to patent troll. I know I definitely didn't move 1000 miles south for that.

Whatever I think of Solowheel and Chen, you seem to be a great guy. Just saying. My Solowheel scepticism certainly does not include the enthusiastic people around that company, like you, doing EUC outreach and all the stuff. (Still loving that Gasworks video with its music)

But as far as Solowheels are concerned, I simply want to see some receipts (aka priced and released products).

Well, good luck to all you guys, both with the difficult EUC market and with Solowheel (doubting the substance) behind you.

Also, a tip: listen to what @Jason McNeil says. He apparently knows the market much better than any manufacturers. As I gathered, he literally is responsible for the existence of the V5F+ and 14S (same wheel but bigger batteries, something soooooo important at the time and obvious to everyone but the manufacturers).

[meepmeepmayer]

9 hours ago, codersarepeople said:

I felt really bad that he had spent so much, but he clearly had done so out of a lack of knowledge. It made me feel that Solowheel was simply preying on those who didn't know enough.

9 hours ago, codersarepeople said:

From my opinion as an outsider, solowheel must be existing only due to a lack of knowledge of the users, something that will catch up to them if they don't start to actually compete.

9 hours ago, codersarepeople said:

and charge more than double the price for less than half the wheel offered by these other companies.

Great comment

In the end, you can't compete with an inferior product, and that seems to be what Solowheel has tried so far. Hope they won't try again.

As an example: in the EU, any product has 2 years warranty by law. So "our prices are warranted by service" isn't going to work at all here. Will Solowheel be limited to the U.S. only? That's not a good plan.

[Mono]

On 12/22/2017 at 12:34 AM, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

Just wanted to chime in that I'm really excited about our new team here in San Diego. I used to run the Solowheel Seattle shop, but I've relocated to be on the team down here and couldn't be more thrilled. We are finally moving Solowheel into a new era, and I think you all are going to be really pleased with our new direction. 

So are you allowed to say what's your role in the team? I would be interested to learn more...

[Jason McNeil]

@Jeffrey Scott Will& @Bobwheel it's understandable you may not want to engage with specific topics, but this isn't China, Western Capitalist societies were built on the principles fair competition, free-speech & open debate. I believe that the enthusiast community has a right to be informed & make their own moral judgements based on the facts.

1. It was Solowheel's express intention to create a US Monopoly by excluding the importation of other brands: That the central pillar of the Solowheel joint-venture strategy, in order to artificially command a high price ceiling, was to block all competition from the US marketplace—this was directly conveyed to me by Shane Chen (February 8th). 
2. That Shane's Electric Unicycle 'Inventorship'/Patent claims are based on dubious foundations: I've given a brief history of the highly questionable way that Shane had acquired  his 'leg pads' patent elsewhere. Does this give him the moral authority to command subservience from an entire industry, which has had a profound negative effect of stifling growth & innovation? 
3. Licensing from Solowheel was never a viable option: I know of several parties who had attempted to conduct licensing negotiations with Shane for the Electric Unicycle, & to my knowledge, all broke down for a variety of reasons, principally on account of the the enormous multi-million dollar upfront payment demands for his license. Even the much publicised Hoverboard agreement with Mark Cuban didn't last more than three months. 
   https://www.greyb.com/first-patent-hoverboard-shane-chen-can-get-invalidated/
4. Solowheel seems to be a litigation Company first & Wheel maker second: there have been at least 7 cases, that I'm aware of, that have made it to the judiciary, probably double this number that have not. One can imagine what Solowheel might have done in the intervening 6 years since the Solowheel was first unveiled, if they would have devoted a fraction of the resources spent on lawyers, on employing top Engineers to produce a world-class product.

If the recent Solowheel court action against Segway would have been successful, it would have hard blow for US Consumers, who would have been forced to choose between only two different model Wheels at vastly inflated prices. Yes, they have lowered their prices now, but is this not the direct result of being forced to compete? 

When Bob Inmotion unilaterally decided that our Distribution Agreement, signed only a few months earlier, was of no account—they didn't even have the courtesy to inform me that it was voided—in fact, Shane told me firsthand (on February 8th) that they lied overlooked this inconvenient fact, in telling him that they had 'no US Distribution'. I sought legal advice if it was worthwhile to seek remedy through the court system, I was given encouragement, but as I'm not funded by the Chinese Government, my resources are not infinite, so I resolved that my efforts would be better employed to look towards the future at forming stronger ties with King Song, who at that stage had a stronger Wheel line-up.

[US69]

At first i thought this thread with all this "Happy Lala Solowheel Singsang" would better go in the section "advertisements" ...but fortunatly it has become a real discussion :-) Thanx @Jason McNeil

[WARPed1701D]

I appreciate Solowheel making a presence here on the forum. Knowing you are here listening a reading what we discuss is great and can only help advance EUC design. I also want to say that I agree with @meepmeepmayer that any negativity towards Solowheel is to the company and not to its representatives on here who are just as enthusiastic about EUCs as we all are. Please don't take any negative comments or criticism personally. 

I don't think anyone on here would ordinarily wish ill upon any EUC company out there, however to this point Solowheel had demonstrated itself to have gone from an innovator who advanced the industry to one that is trying to cripple it. Continue to head down that route and any EUC enthusiast,  who ultimately is the one who pays the price for all the corporate bullshit,  will badmouth Solowheel and never send a $ of their money or new customers your way. Bad for everyone. 

From the consumers perspective the timeline appears to be this. Solowheel was an innovator. Hooray!  Solowheel stopped innovating and sold overpriced out of date wheels. Booo, but whatever. Solowheel appears to be legally strong arming other companies out the market so it can monopolize it. Totally not cool!  Solowheel has already denied the US market of a well priced low-mid range high quality manufacturer by rebranding it as their own and bumping the price. Dick move.

Yes manufacturer support on these forums had been crap. KingSong does make a little effort which is appreciated. However, you can't justify the price bump of the V8/Glide 3 from Jason's $999 to $1299 on the premise of a small firmware tweak and improved support for a year as I know that while support from  Inmotion was generally poor, the support from @Jason McNeil was/is exemplary. Anything you can offer above and beyond what I could get from him right now if my 6 Month old V8 broke wouldn't be worth $300 extra. For $1300 from Jason I could get a KS16S with nearly double the battery, a 1200W motor and similar build quality to the Glide 3. At $999 the V8 made sense. At $1299 the Glide 3 does not. 

If Solowheel wants to move forward it needs to compete on the grounds of making a better wheel than the competition that is worth the price charged, not by forcing them out the market or stealing their hardware and price gouging.

I'm mad at you for taking Inmotion from the US market. I'm mad at Inmotion for screwing their US distributor who contributed so much to their growth. Make me like you both again by playing nice, innovating, and improving the EUCs market going forward rather than harming it. 

Good luck. Happy Holidays. Peace. 

[US69]

1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said:

e 3 from Jason's $999 to $1299 on the premise of a small firmware tweak a

Hmmh, as far as i know the price jump even was to 1599?

[houseofjob]

18 hours ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

... and I'm sure you can understand that we wouldn't want to talk about those details on this kind of forum.

... Your frustration is understandable, but at the same time, this forum is probably not the best place to discuss business. We are happy to discuss it with you directly, if you'd like.

... If they have a case, it's a matter for the courts to decide and should be settled in that forum. There isn't much point in discussing it here.

... In all seriousness, it's a matter between Shane and said parties. It's not up to third parties on the internet to decide. If they have a claim, it can be settled in the appropriate forum.

 

Wow, clearly you don't read these forums nearly enough.

Half of all the posts on these forums (probably more) are screaming for more transparency from the typically reticent EUC co's, and this is supposed to win our favor?

While, like the rest of us, I can appreciate the positivity (however misguided), 'would suggest the next post be accompanied with either: a.) transparency, or b.) results ... otherwise this is just wasting all of our times and not changing our opinions of Inventist/Solowheel.

 

... and quite frankly, I'm puzzled as to why Inventist would even want to curry favor with this particular audience, as we are not easily swayed by marketing language and conveniently revisionist history.

 

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

At first i thought this thread with all this "Happy Lala Solowheel Singsang" would better go in the section "advertisements" ...but fortunatly it has become a real discussion :-) Thanx @Jason McNeil

You read my mind! (probably most of the forum goer's minds!)

[WARPed1701D]

22 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Hmmh, as far as i know the price jump even was to 1599!!!

Indeed it was listed at that when all this began back in the summer but I'll focus on here and now for this discussion. From a response  earlier we now know current price is now $1299 with 1 year of warranty, $1599 with 2 years. Jason includes 1 year so comparing $1299 to his $999 seems the fairest. $600 over Jason's original price for 1 extra year of warranty is just obscene. With such a premium it makes me wonder if my V8 is expected to die in year two of its life. 

[WARPed1701D]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

 

Wow, clearly you don't read these forums nearly enough.

Half of all the posts on these forums (probably more) are screaming for more transparency from the typically reticent EUC co's, and this is supposed to win our favor?

While, like the rest of us, I can appreciate the positivity (however misguided), 'would suggest the next post be accompanied with either: a.) transparency, or b.) results ... otherwise this is just wasting all of our times and not changing our opinions of Inventist/Solowheel.

 

... and quite frankly, I'm puzzled as to why Inventist would even want to curry favor with this particular audience, as we are not easily swayed by marketing language and conveniently revisionist history.

 

+1000

Tell it straight and earn respect, even if we don't like what we hear, or don't tell it at all. @Jason McNeil would clearly like this to be a public discussion.

[US69]

42 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Indeed it was listed at that when all this began back in the summer but I'll focus on here and now for this discussion. From a response  earlier we now know current price is now $1299 with 1 year of warranty, $1599 with 2 years. Jason includes 1 year so comparing $1299 to his $999 seems the fairest. $600 over Jason's original price for 1 extra year of warranty is just obscene. With such a premium it makes me wonder if my V8 is expected to die in year two of its life. 

Thanx for clarification! :-) To be honest...to justify a 300bucks more for a year warranty? Pfffh...Exaclty like you said, makes one feel that after a year the wheel will be collapsing from  one moment to the other :-)

[Bryan Wells]

2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

I appreciate Solowheel making a presence here on the forum. Knowing you are here listening a reading what we discuss is great and can only help advance EUC design. I also want to say that I agree with @meepmeepmayer that any negativity towards Solowheel is to the company and not to its representatives on here who are just as enthusiastic about EUCs as we all are. Please don't take any negative comments or criticism personally. 

I don't think anyone on here would ordinarily wish ill upon any EUC company out there, however to this point Solowheel had demonstrated itself to have gone from an innovator who advanced the industry to one that is trying to cripple it. Continue to head down that route and any EUC enthusiast,  who ultimately is the one who pays the price for all the corporate bullshit,  will badmouth Solowheel and never send a $ of their money or new customers your way. Bad for everyone. 

From the consumers perspective the timeline appears to be this. Solowheel was an innovator. Hooray!  Solowheel stopped innovating and sold overpriced out of date wheels. Booo, but whatever. Solowheel appears to be legally strong arming other companies out the market so it can monopolize it. Totally not cool!  Solowheel has already denied the US market of a well priced low-mid range high quality manufacturer by rebranding it as their own and bumping the price. Dick move.

Yes manufacturer support on these forums had been crap. KingSong does make a little effort which is appreciated. However, you can't justify the price bump of the V8/Glide 3 from Jason's $999 to $1299 on the premise of a small firmware tweak and improved support for a year as I know that while support from  Inmotion was generally poor, the support from @Jason McNeil was/is exemplary. Anything you can offer above and beyond what I could get from him right now if my 6 Month old V8 broke wouldn't be worth $300 extra. For $1300 from Jason I could get a KS16S with nearly double the battery, a 1200W motor and similar build quality to the Glide 3. At $999 the V8 made sense. At $1299 the Glide 3 does not. 

If Solowheel wants to move forward it needs to compete on the grounds of making a better wheel than the competition that is worth the price charged, not by forcing them out the market or stealing their hardware and price gouging.

I'm mad at you for taking Inmotion from the US market. I'm mad at Inmotion for screwing their US distributor who contributed so much to their growth. Make me like you both again by playing nice, innovating, and improving the EUCs market going forward rather than harming it. 

Good luck. Happy Holidays. Peace. 

EXACTLY! nothing personal to the people of solowheel, but the pricing is... sad. And making a product that people want to spend a lot on is one thing, hell i spent $1400 on a Tesla... that's way more money than my first few wheels but have you seen the specs sheet?!  1,900watt motor and apps show over 7,000watts sustained  climbing hills at 25mph+. over 1000WH of battery life that i can't even feel my legs by the end of the day because it let me rage the streets ALL DAY lol. But a re-branded V8 with a warranty costs $200 more... K

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

Just so everyone knows: when I say we are starting fresh, I mean that quite literally. Our new team wasn't a part of the new pricing scheme or any previous licensing deals. and we are re-evaluating all of it. We hear you!! We really are a brand new team and are in the process of fixing the mistakes that have been made.

Our partnership with InMotion is not to just re-brand their wheels. I know it may look that way because of the way we started this new relationship with the Glide 2/3, but the end result of this partnership will be the development of new ideas with a better manufacturing process from InMotion's resources. You'll see that in our future projects. As someone who first came from the enthusiast side of things, I completely get most of the frustration posted here. I know the burden is on us to prove that we are going to do business differently, and we have open ears. It's why we are here right now. I knew we would face some resistance by getting active on the forums, but we not only want to allow you to vent your frustrations about the past but also to have a chance to re-introduce you to who Solowheel is now. We're not trying to run a marketing campaign on you, and we're not Inventist. 

@WARPed1701D, we are here for that exact reason: to give you guys a chance to give some input. It would be crazy for us not to listen to you! 

As for any patent or legal issues, I just want you all to understand that this is another part of Inventist and Shane's history. We didn't have a part in any of that. And neither were any of the forumers posting about it, so that's why it doesn't really makes sense for us to debate it. You're free to discuss it, of course. Personally, I just don't want to speak for other people as it just becomes "he said, she said" at this point. 

I do really appreciate the amount of feedback we are getting. I'm excited to start being a more active member of the forum again, even though it's from a different perspective this time.

Happy Holidays, everyone! 

[Mono]

12 hours ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

As someone who first came from the enthusiast side of things, I completely get most of the frustration posted here. I know the burden is on us to prove that we are going to do business differently, and we have open ears. It's why we are here right now. I knew we would face some resistance by getting active on the forums, but we not only want to allow you to vent your frustrations about the past but also to have a chance to re-introduce you to who Solowheel is now. We're not trying to run a marketing campaign on you, and we're not Inventist.

Who is the head of your new team?

[Rehab1]

Below are some insights into Chen’s marketing strategies for Solowheel recently published in a Forbe’s interview.

Chen states: “If you don’t focus on marketing and branding, your customers won’t connect with you on a deeper emotional level. To build a premium brand, you’ll want to make sure you identify the core audience of your product, the product differentiators, and drive thought leadership and awareness.” Chen further states: “A successful marketing plan needs these important components”:

1)” Describe your company’s unique selling proposition (USP). It’s a descriptive sentence that articulates what your business does. As an example, Domino’s Pizza’s USP is “ You get fresh, hot pizza delivered to your door in 30 minutes or less or it’s free.”  

(Wondering if ‘free’ applies to late delivery of a Solowheel?) 

2) ”Define your demographic. Who are your customers? What’s their age, gender, education, employment, status, what kind of car do they drive, do they own a home, are they married, etc?”

3) ”Describe your product’s benefits and how are you going to position your product for your audience and what are the channels you’re going to use to get that message out?”

4) “Get the word out! While digital marketing may work magic for certain customers, it may not work for everyone. It’s a good idea to use a mix of digital marketing, advertising, public relations and direct marketing.”

( Now we just need to sit back and watch how Chen’s (boilerplate) marketing strategies work and if the EUC Forum community benefits.) 

 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Link to the interview?

Well, guess now we know what is (was?) wrong with Solowheel:

On 12/25/2017 at 8:38 PM, Rehab1 said:

 “If you don’t focus on marketing and branding, your customers won’t connect with you on a deeper emotional level. To build a premium brand, you’ll want to make sure you identify the core audience of your product, the product differentiators, and drive thought leadership and awareness.”

Oh God Translation: "Every bullshit matters except the actual product". Which is the exact opposite of reality, only the product matters. Everyone here would exclusively buy from "The KKK Wheel Manufacturing Co." if they had the clearly best wheels.

This sounds like typical startup bullshit that people use (and worse, apparently really believe) when they're missing an actual reason why people would make them successful.

On 12/25/2017 at 8:38 PM, Rehab1 said:

(Wondering if ‘free’ applies to late delivery of a Solowheel?) 

[Rehab1]

41 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Link to the interview

Here you go. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jiawertz/2017/12/04/5-lessons-you-can-learn-from-the-entrepreneur-who-invented-the-hoverboard/#2ef4a1e07cf7

Interestingly  @Jason McNeil has been successfully following a similar marketing paradigm for  years,  although he has never asked me if I was married (apparent to many) , what kind of car I own, education, socks I wear, etc.. Suppose I would tell him if I saved a few bucks.  

[The Fat Unicyclist]

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

Here you go. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jiawertz/2017/12/04/5-lessons-you-can-learn-from-the-entrepreneur-who-invented-the-hoverboard/#2ef4a1e07cf7

Interestingly  @Jason McNeil has been successfully following a similar marketing paradigm for  years,  although he has never asked me if I was married (apparent to many) , what kind of car I own, education, socks I wear, etc.. Suppose I would tell him if I saved a few bucks.  

He doesn't need to ask you... You're an open book to all of us; 

• Married: Yes (to one very long-suffering soul)
• Education: Graduated "egregia cum laude" from the National College of Mad Science 
• Socks: Always - mostly matching (and sometimes covered in residual chalk paint)
• Vehicle: Amphibious red truck... 

 

Complete with a stylish roof-mounted EUC holder. Which is very practical (as it keeps them drier up there).   

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

He doesn't need to ask you... You're an open book to all of us; 

• Married: Yes (to one very long-suffering soul)
• Education: Graduated "egregia cum laude" from the National College of Mad Science 
• Socks: Always - mostly matching (and sometimes covered in residual chalk paint)
• Vehicle: Amphibious red truck... 

 

Complete with a stylish roof-mounted EUC holder. Which is very practical (as it keeps them drier up there).   

  Very funny!! Awesome job!! Made my day! Definitely need to frame this!

I loved that truck but my Mten mount failed. 

 

OMG @The Fat Unicyclist You really derailed this thread. <~~~>

 

[steve454]

1 minute ago, Rehab1 said:

  Very funny!! Awesome job!! Made my day! Definitely need to frame this!

I loved that truck but my Mten mount failed. 

 

 

 

[F.J. Abaya]

This came across my news feed today from Solowheel Global and it cracked me up.

Is that a V.W. Bus with a Range Rover cover on it?  Reminds me of inmoti..... I mean Glide 3

i hope this doesn’t become a company habit ?

[WARPed1701D]

On 12/21/2017 at 6:08 PM, GreenWheel said:

We noticed that there are lots of struggles in this forum in regards to InMotion customers getting repair and service, so we will be offering repair service for those customers as well from now on.

A late thought regarding this.

With repair and service support extended to existing Inmotion V8 owners in the US, will the new firmware/app also be made available to the same market?