THE HELMET THREAD

[Shad0z]

4 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

OMGWFBBQ, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

This one seems to fit. Just a bit loose at the cheeks but the pads are replaceable. The box contains 12mm and 20mm pads (20mm were installed), but you can order 30 and 40mm too. I just ordered a set of 30mm pads. That should be a perfect fit.

Just a pity that the front (gel) padding is missing in the one they sent me. I guess they'll just ship it afterwards. No big deal, although velcro pushing on your forehead isn't really comfortable  

 

After 6 different helmets we're finally getting there . Light helmet, good ventilation and certification for the chin bar.

 

https://www.met-helmets.com/products/mtb/parachute

 

 

i really like those helmets! also there is a bell version

now if some chinese company could make a cheap copy already!

 

[ir_fuel]

On 6/22/2018 at 2:47 PM, Shad0z said:

now if some chinese company could make a cheap copy already!

Because $200 really is a lot of money to protect your head from life-altering injuries  ?

 

[Shemp]

I looked at the 6D helmets. They seem great, but they have EPS liners, meaning they're single-impact.

[Unventor]

8 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Because $200 really is a lot of money to protect your head from life-altering injuries  ?

 

I am pretty sure the Schumacher family would say different....

But it is always easy to say afterwards if only.....

That is why I use my TSG Pass fullface helmet as much as I can when riding my EUC. 

[Esper]

 

[ir_fuel]

2 hours ago, Shemp said:

I looked at the 6D helmets. They seem great, but they have EPS liners, meaning they're single-impact.

What's the problem with that? Would you keep on riding with the same helmet if it was involved in a serious impact?

[ir_fuel]

40 minutes ago, Esper said:

 

Thanks for posting this!

I never understood how someone would think that a $30 "motorcycle" helmet (preferably bought on Aliexpress) would give decent protection.

And Scorpion isn't even that high-end of a motorcycle helmet, compared to let's say an Arai.

[Esper]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

What's the problem with that? Would you keep on riding with the same helmet if it was involved in a serious impact?

I think it depends on the severity of the impact.

If it is something small, like you accidentally dropping it a meter to the ground, it should still hold up and not crumble.
Or maybe the guy is talking about a hard crash, where you can hit your head on the ground multiple times in one fall?
In either case, I feel the more durable the helmet the better. If it appears to be badly damaged, replace it. If it is a few scratches from wear and tear, put a sticker over it. If it breaks in half like an egg from an accidental drop at one meter, then it's better it wasn't on your head when it split in half.

[ir_fuel]

5 minutes ago, Esper said:

I think it depends on the severity of the impact.

"Serious impact"

Quote

If it is something small, like you accidentally dropping it a meter to the ground, it should still hold up and not crumble.

That's not a small fall for a helmet. It should not crumble, but the internal structure can already be compromised.

Quote

Or maybe the guy is talking about a hard crash, where you can hit your head on the ground multiple times in one fall?

That shouldn't be a problem as chances of you hitting your head several times in the same spot are slim, and if it happens it will be at reduced impact strength. Anyway, if the first hit is so hard that it shatters all protection I think you'll have bigger issues. Seems very unlikely when falling from a euc, unless Gotway builds a 80mph Monster in 2019  

Quote

In either case, I feel the more durable the helmet the better. If it appears to be badly damaged, replace it. If it is a few scratches from wear and tear, put a stickerover it. If it breaks in half like an egg from an accidental drop at one meter, then it's better it wasn't on your head when it split in half.

The problem is that the real damage can't be seen as it happens in the soft structures on the inside. That's why some high end helmet companies offer a service that allows you to send in your helmet and they'll scan it to check for internal structural damage.

Edited June 25, 2018 by ir_fuel

[Shemp]

35 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

What's the problem with that? Would you keep on riding with the same helmet if it was involved in a serious impact? 

EPS liners are one shot and done, "serious" impact or minor bump.   Given that EUC riding (and crashing) is generally more similar to skateboard riding than motorcycle riding, the kinds of impacts you want to protect against are mostly small and frequent, which is why you want a multi-impact helmet. Ideally, you'd have a helmet that was good for both low speed small multiple impacts (like a skateboard helmet) and mid-speed hard impacts (like a bike helmet). There aren't many helmets that are certified for both. I wear one (POC Receptor). There are fewer still helmets that are good for both impact scenarios that have chin bars.

[mezzanine]

37 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

What's the problem with that? Would you keep on riding with the same helmet if it was involved in a serious impact?

Yeah, I was a little confused by that comment, too.  There's a material called EPP that I think some helmet manufacturers incorporate as a different density layer along with EPS that can be compressed and still return to it's original shape like foam.  I think the Bell Flex series uses it.  

 

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, Shemp said:

EPS liners are one shot and done, "serious" impact or minor bump.   Given that EUC riding (and crashing) is generally more similar to skateboard riding than motorcycle riding, the kinds of impacts you want to protect against are mostly small and frequent,

Small and frequent?

How many times do you plan on hitting your head against something while euc'ing? I can understand on a skateboard where falling is basically part of the sport (especially when doing vert or more extreme tricks), but this is the same as saying that someone on a bicycle will fall as much as someone on a skateboard?

[mezzanine]

Just now, Shemp said:

EPS liners are one shot and done, "serious" impact or minor bump.   Given that EUC riding (and crashing) is generally more similar to skateboard riding than motorcycle riding, the kinds of impacts you want to protect against are mostly small and frequent, which is why you want a multi-impact helmet. Ideally, you'd have a helmet that was good for both low speed small multiple impacts (like a skateboard helmet) and mid-speed hard impacts (like a bike helmet). There aren't many helmets that are certified for both. I wear one (POC Receptor). There are fewer still helmets that are good for both impact scenarios that have chin bars.

 I wondered about which sport is most like EUCing when I was looking for a helmet, too.  I'd argue that EUC riding is probably more like bicycle riding than it is like skateboarding, but I think you raise a reasonable point about small impacts being more frequent with EUCs than motorcycles.  I'm fairly sure most bike helmets use EPS.  

My best guess is that the closest thing to EUC usage is probably downhill mountain biking, in terms of likely type of impacts.  My other guess is that having a technologically advanced version of MIPS like that found in the 6D, Bell Flex, Leatt, or Kali helmets is probably the best option available.  

[Shemp]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

Small and frequent?

How many times do you plan on hitting your head against something while euc'ing? I can understand on a skateboard where falling is basically part of the sport (especially when doing vert or more extreme tricks), but this is the same as saying that someone on a bicycle will fall as much as someone on a skateboard? 

Maybe you're way more coordinated than me, but I have lost count of how many times I've fallen while riding my EUC. 

It's not at all the same thing as saying that people on bikes fall as much as people on skateboards; in fact, it's saying exactly the opposite. Skateboard and bike helmets have different design requirements and different certifications precisely because they have different use cases.

@mezzanine Yes, several manufacturers use EPP (and similar foams) in combination with EPS. There are a few that use only EPP (and similar), and those helmets are multi-impact.

 

 

[ir_fuel]

Just now, Shemp said:

Maybe you're way more coordinated than me, but I have lost count of how many times I've fallen while riding my EUC. 

How many of those times did you hit your head on something?

1 minute ago, Shemp said:

It's not at all the same thing as saying that people on bikes fall as much as people on skateboards; in fact, it's saying exactly the opposite. Skateboard and bike helmets have different design requirements and different certifications precisely because they have different use cases.

I didn't say that. I compare EUC riding to biking, not to skateboarding. If I were to hit my head 10 times in a year while euc'ing I would look for another means of transportation.

[Shemp]

2 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

 I wondered about which sport is most like EUCing when I was looking for a helmet, too.  I'd argue that EUC riding is probably more like bicycle riding than it is like skateboarding, but I think you raise a reasonable point about small impacts being more frequent with EUCs than motorcycles.  I'm fairly sure most bike helmets use EPS.  

My best guess is that the closest thing to EUC usage is probably downhill mountain biking, in terms of likely type of impacts.  My other guess is that having a technologically advanced version of MIPS like that found in the 6D, Bell Flex, Leatt, or Kali helmets is probably the best option available.   

We're on the same page. I've been looking at DH mountain biking helmets too. The only ones I've found that are EPP (rather than EPS or EPS-EPP mixes) are the POC Coron and Coron Air.  I also agree re MIPS (and similar systems like SPIN), but those are for rotational torquing protection and not impact protection.

[Shemp]

Perhaps I am as lacking in reading comprehension as I am in coordination!

 

7 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

I didn't say that. I compare EUC riding to biking, not to skateboarding

 

"but this is the same as saying that someone on a bicycle will fall as much as someone on a skateboard? "

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Shemp

[mezzanine]

Just now, Shemp said:

We're on the same page. I've been looking at DH mountain biking helmets too. The only ones I've found that are EPP (rather than EPS or EPS-EPP mixes) are the POC Coron and Coron Air.  I also agree re MIPS (and similar systems like SPIN), but those are for rotational torquing protection and not impact protection.

I looked at the POCs too, but couldn't find them for a reasonable price in Canada.  Sounds like they do something similar to the Bell Flex to achieve their low-speed rotational impact protection by combining the EPP/EPS.  Keeping in mind that I don't think they are multi-impact designs, though, which is different than a skate helmet.  I believe they're incorporating the EPP in the same way my Leatt uses a g-form material.  

It's interesting that you're bringing up skate helmets and EPP because this was an area I wasn't 100% clear about in my own research.  If you think about the physics of skateboarding falls, my inclination is to think you're likely to see more of the type where someone goes straight down on their head from a standing position with zero speed.     

[mezzanine]

This is the site that had the 6D I'd likely have bought it I was in the US:

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/6d-helmets-atb-1-helmet

With a 15% off code it comes to around $250 and I seriously doubt if there's a close contender when it comes to safety, at least based on my own research.  Keeping in mind it weighs slightly more than my motocross helmet and is larger, which is why I think sometimes the lines between specific sports is blurrier than one might initially assume.  

[Esper]

I'm just confused here... If an accidently dropped helmet from backpack height to the ground is enough to "Structurally compromise" a $200+ helmet, then they surely are not worth the money.

People have helmets for all types of reasons;
Skydiving,
Rafting,
Rock-Climbing,
Bicycle,
Skateboard,
Snow/ski,
Jetski,
ATV,
Motorcycle
Construction,
Military/combat,
For the mentally ill,

There are tests to approve helmets for different uses and in all cases they protect the user from damage. I disagree that a simple dropped helmet is grounds for replacement, and if it were, then these companies would market them as 'single use' and sell them in packs of 10. If I drop my helmet on the ground, I'll still put it on. I'd rather use it than buy another one for a few hundred bucks.

Maybe it's just me. But I'm pretty frugal. I'd rather buy something that is durable and reusable rather than something I have to be overly cautious about breaking from clumsiness then have to replace.

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, mezzanine said:

 I wondered about which sport is most like EUCing when I was looking for a helmet, too.  I'd argue that EUC riding is probably more like bicycle riding than it is like skateboarding, but I think you raise a reasonable point about small impacts being more frequent with EUCs than motorcycles.  I'm fairly sure most bike helmets use EPS.  

My best guess is that the closest thing to EUC usage is probably downhill mountain biking, in terms of likely type of impacts.  My other guess is that having a technologically advanced version of MIPS like that found in the 6D, Bell Flex, Leatt, or Kali helmets is probably the best option available.  

I thought bicycle helmets were designed for people leaning forward with their head lifted up, and also the majority of bicycle falls will be forward. A skateboard helmet better protects the back of the head because many of the falls can be backwards.

[mezzanine]

8 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I thought bicycle helmets were designed for people leaning forward with their head lifted up, and also the majority of bicycle falls will be forward. A skateboard helmet better protects the back of the head because many of the falls can be backwards.

I'm not clear on which type of open-faced helmet is better suited for our purposes.  In terms of helmet shape, I imagine you're right about skate helmets having an advantage by better covering the back of the head.  Then there's the question of which type of foam is better suited to EUC crashes between EPP (more suited to skate impacts) or EPS (bike helmet).  I lean towards EPS bike helmets because of my assumption that the average accident involves bike-type falls at speed.  

[ir_fuel]

On 6/26/2018 at 12:58 AM, Esper said:

I disagree that a simple dropped helmet is grounds for replacement, and if it were, then these companies would market them as 'single use' and sell them in packs of 10. If I drop my helmet on the ground, I'll still put it on. I'd rather use it than buy another one for a few hundred bucks.

Maybe it's just me. But I'm pretty frugal. I'd rather buy something that is durable and reusable rather than something I have to be overly cautious about breaking from clumsiness then have to replace.

Yes it's you.

Helmets are single use. Seatbelts are also single use.

Go ask any decent helmet manufacturer what they have to say about dropping your helmet on concrete. Pretty sure all of them will say "no problem, please continue using it, nothing will have changed" .... not

 

FYI I am talking about full size helmets here that weigh > 700g. A simple bicycle or skateboard helmet will probably not have enough mass to actually cause significant internal damage to it when dropped.

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by ir_fuel

[ir_fuel]

On 6/26/2018 at 12:42 AM, Shemp said:

"but this is the same as saying that someone on a bicycle will fall as much as someone on a skateboard? "

I implied that what you said is the same as saying the above. You can't compare a sport where people fall several times each time they practice it with a transportation device where falling is supposed to be the exception, not the rule.

[ir_fuel]

23 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I lean towards EPS bike helmets because of my assumption that the average accident involves bike-type falls at speed.  

The problem is that the entire front of the face isn't protected. TBH people on bikes should also have chin protection. My girlfriend crashed with here race bike. She had to have stitches in her chin from faceplanting. If you go face first towards the ground at a decent speed it's pretty hard not to hit nose/jaw/cheek/chin on the pavement and only hit it with the top of your head.

The reason they don't is I presume because the brain is much more precious to protect, and that face wounds will heal better than brain damage. It's all a trade-off. Still better than no helmet whatsoever of course.