My KS18S Review and Ongoing Observations

[Marty Backe]

This Topic will capture my experiences with the KS18S, eventually ending in a video review.

@Sketch and I agreed to do a wheel swap, his KS18S for my MSuper V3s+. It's a temporary swap lasting maybe a couple of months. I'm not sure when @Sketch bought his wheel, but it's damn near new. When I picked it up there were 70-miles on it  Sadly for Matt, my MSuper V3s+ has about 400-miles on it, but at least he can feel confident that at this point there aren't any ghosts in the wheel 

Today, my third riding day, I wrapped up a 23-mile ride and I'm starting to become one with the wheel  About 65-miles so far.

After my first day, a 30-mile day, my legs were beat up, particularly the side of my knees where the hard shell hits. Had some bruising. I'm happy to report that this is typical new-wheel syndrome. Today there was zero discomfort while riding, probably because I'm no longer squeezing the shell much while turning.

I must say that this wheel requires more adjustment than any other wheel that I've ridden, and I've ridden a lot of wheels. I think I'm a decent wheeler now, and when I first got on this wheel I feel almost like a beginner. My turns were wobbly and very uncomfortable and unnatural. Although much better at the end of that 30-mile ride, I was still a bit rough. But by the end of this third day, I've got this wheel down, and it's a blast.

I'm not going to become an advocate for tall shells but I have to be honest and say that this tall shell, once you've tuned your riding style to it, allows for some gnarly turns because you can lean more into the turn and feel in control because the shell is pressed up against the length of your lower leg. You feel more in control. And you can do some sharp turns on this with no pedal scraping. I love it.

Carving, which I love, is a blast on this wheel.

So this is indeed a kick-butt wheel. I still need to tackle some steeper mountain trails, but after some initial mountain riding I do think the MSuper is probably a better mountain wheel and it's certainly faster. More to come. In the mean time I'll post a few videos shortly which show some of the fun I had on this 3rd day. 

EDIT:

After 130-miles of varied riding, here is my formal review

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Marty Backe

[Mrd777]

Interesting observations Marty, seems fair that you gave it some time covering 65 miles.

Does the Tesla have faster acceleration and higher top speed? Also, let us know how the firmness of the KS18 is compared to your Gotway’s. Thanks..

Sounds like fun. 

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

Interesting observations Marty, seems fair that you gave it some time covering 65 miles.

Does the Tesla have faster acceleration and higher top speed? Also, let us know how the firmness of the KS18 is compared to your Gotway’s. Thanks..

Sounds like fun. 

If you're going to compare the KS18S to any wheel, it'll be the MSuper V3.  The KS18S is a truck. The Tesla is a sports car. Need I say more? 

But so that I leave no doubt, yes, the Tesla is a speeding bullet next to the KS18S. My top speed on the KS18S was 23-mph and you're kind of pushing it. The Tesla goes 25-mph effortlessly, and of course has a much higher top-end (but I don't feel comfortable riding faster than 25-mph).

The KS18S is definitely a firm ride, and firmer than all the Gotway wheels except the Mten3 and Tesla. In my opinion those wheels are harder.

[Marty Backe]

Some initial backward practice ...

 

[Marty Backe]

 

[US69]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

so that I leave no doubt, yes, the Tesla is a speeding bullet next to the KS18S. My top speed on the KS18S was 23-mph and you're kind of pushing it. The Tesla goes 25-mph effortlessly, and of course has a much higher top-end (but I don't feel comfortable riding faster than 25-mph).

A "much higher" top end? 

Yip...30mph for the 18S and 31mph for the Tesla,i guess ;-)

Nice report so far! And agreed to the acceleration....Tesla IS the speeding bullet :-) And also exactly what i found...18S is harder, stiffer than ACM, Msuper...but the Tesla even tops that!

Edited December 13, 2017 by KingSong69

[Marty Backe]

This is subjective of course, but in my opinion the Tesla seems to require less effort than the 18S to go fast. But I'm never going to ride any of these wheels faster than 25-mph.

[US69]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Some initial backward practice ...

 

When the normal "get used" to is hard on the 18S...the backward driving is even harder :-)

For that few miles you have....Great!!!

[US69]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

This is subjective of course, but in my opinion the Tesla seems to require less effort than the 18S to go fast. But I'm never going to ride any of these wheels faster than 25-mph.

I am totally with you! While i dont think that comparisons between 16 and 18 inch wheels make that lot of sense, as 16inch torque (and so acceleration) in general are better...no doubt that when pushing the Tesla goes faster to fast :-)

[Marty Backe]

 

[Marty Backe]

 

[WARPed1701D]

8 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

But so that I leave no doubt, yes, the Tesla is a speeding bullet next to the KS18S. My top speed on the KS18S was 23-mph and you're kind of pushing it. The Tesla goes 25-mph effortlessly, and of course has a much higher top-end (but I don't feel comfortable riding faster than 25-mph).

The KS18S is definitely a firm ride, and firmer than all the Gotway wheels except the Mten3 and Tesla. In my opinion those wheels are harder.

So to confirm you are saying that the 18S requires more effort than you are comfortable with to go faster? Or it feels unstable beyond it? Or you feel you are running out of torque to go faster? Is the 18S speed limit unlocked? Do you think this may seem less an issue as you gain more experience with the tall shell. 

I'm guessing from this I could consider the 18S to be marginally softer than the V8 which is known to be very hard (probably like the Tesla). 

How would you compare the 18S to the similarly tall Monster (I don't mean performance as the 22" Monster is disadvantaged by diameter, but feel and handling). 

I'm going to enjoy the insights from this thread. Thanks for sharing what you are learning and for being open minded to all wheel brands. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by WARPed1701D

[meepmeepmayer]

Why would you say the msuper is faster?

Also, which one of the two (18S vs ms3) feels more torque-y, or why would you say the msuper is better for mountains?

[US69]

49 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

So to confirm you are saying that the 18S requires more effort than you are comfortable with to go faster? Or it feels unstable beyond it? Or you feel you are running out of torque to go faster? Is the 18S speed limit unlocked? Do you think this may seem less an issue as you gain more experience with the tall shell. 

I'm guessing from this I could consider the 18S to be marginally softer than the V8 which is known to be very hard (probably like the Tesla). 

How would you compare the 18S to the similarly tall Monster (I don't mean performance as the 22" Monster is disadvantaged by diameter, but feel and handling). 

I'm going to enjoy the insights from this thread. Thanks for sharing what you are learning and for being open minded to all wheel brands. 

He just means that the Tesla accelerates faster and that you have to lean more in into the KS18S.

I have them both,too....the 18S was the best accelerator to all wheel's i know...just until the Tesla came out. While, again, thats apple's and eggs comparing as the torque is naturally stronger on a 16 Inch!

And nope, the 18S is  a good amount harder than the V8 ....the Tesla even is the absolut King of hardness.

Yes, the V8 was meant to be with a hard pedal Setting...but the Progress got further since it came out.

[WARPed1701D]

Wow. Both harder than the V8. My pedals feel rock hard when I ride. I wonder how much rider weight affects perceived hardness. I'm only 150lb so for the 800W V8 to respond to me is probably quicker / harder than someone who's 200lb. If true then I guess the 18S and Tesla have much more torque to maintain hardness across wider rider weight ranges. 

The 18S has adjustable hardness, right? 

[US69]

32 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Wow. Both harder than the V8. My pedals feel rock hard when I ride. I wonder how much rider weight affects perceived hardness. I'm only 150lb so for the 800W V8 to respond to me is probably quicker / harder than someone who's 200lb. If true then I guess the 18S and Tesla have much more torque to maintain hardness across wider rider weight ranges. 

The 18S has adjustable hardness, right? 

They both are fantastic torque, especially seen under the premise that the 18S is "only" 67 Volt AND also a 18inch one. But the Tesla is beating it torquewise all day.

Both have 3 ride modes....

I would guess that rider weigth doesn't do that much to hardness, as this hardness not only goes against the rider weight, but also against pushing/braking, so also needed for lightweight People. This nicely  torque on this both wheels also works out in fast acceleration, as the EUC counterreacts the pushing into wheelmovent.

Perhaps in this context my snow/ice Report is also more understandable, as the torque in this conditions can not be brought on the road.

[GoinPostal]

44 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Wow. Both harder than the V8. My pedals feel rock hard when I ride. I wonder how much rider weight affects perceived hardness. I'm only 150lb so for the 800W V8 to respond to me is probably quicker / harder than someone who's 200lb. If true then I guess the 18S and Tesla have much more torque to maintain hardness across wider rider weight ranges. 

The 18S has adjustable hardness, right? 

Yes, the 18s has adjustable hardness. Also, the wheel Marty is riding is still speed locked. It only has around 100 miles on it, and it won’t unlock until 620 miles. 

[Mrd777]

10 minutes ago, GoinPostal said:

and it won’t unlock until 620 miles. 

This is a deal breaker for me ever buying a Kingsong. It would be like having a restriction on my motorcycles speed until the manufacture guesses when I'm responsible enough to go faster. Really dumb!

The only reason to have a restriction on any vehicle (not electric) would be for parts to break in.. thats it.

[Marty Backe]

27 minutes ago, GoinPostal said:

Yes, the 18s has adjustable hardness. Also, the wheel Marty is riding is still speed locked. It only has around 100 miles on it, and it won’t unlock until 620 miles. 

Although speed-locked, I can still go at least 23-mph which covers 95-percent of my speed needs.

10 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

This is a deal breaker for me ever buying a Kingsong. It would be like having a restriction on my motorcycles speed until the manufacture guesses when I'm responsible enough to go faster. Really dumb!

The only reason to have a restriction on any vehicle (not electric) would be for parts to break in.. thats it.

I agree that I HATE why KingSong does this. Let's say I have 3000-miles on my KS18S. Then I buy another one and have to wait another 600-miles. What madness is this? It's like whoever decided to implement this assumes that a person will only buy one KingSong for their entire life. I just don't get it.

That all being said, I'm very happy with the two KingSong wheels that I'm riding. They both go as fast as I want to go. But if you are into riding really fast, Gotway is absolutely the only way to go (and probably always will be).

[US69]

30 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree that I HATE why KingSong does this. Let's say I have 3000-miles on my KS18S. Then I buy another one and have to wait another 600-miles. What madness is this? It's like whoever decided to implement this assumes that a person will only buy one KingSong for their entire life. I just don't get it.

Yeah, it is at least discussable!

While i also get the Point/argument that they want you to be a KS18 experienced rider(on THIS wheeltype) before having you driving crazy 50kmh Speed.

30 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Although speed-locked, I can still go at least 23-mph which covers 95-percent of my speed needs.

It is 25mph=40kmh btw, but that's the main Point for me....i would top that as enough to 97% percent for me :-)

And i say it again: perhaps on a bigger wheel like the Monster faster than 40 is somewhat of comfortable...on 16/18 Inch wheels i get a good lough when People tell me they absolutly want/need to ride that fast all the time. Euc's in this category are just not meant for going that fast. And seeing all that video's of many dozen of Group or single riders prove me right. Never saw that Speed demons. Going over 40kmh might be nice for a small Adrenalin shot...but not more :-)

30 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

But if you are into riding really fast, Gotway is absolutely the only way to go (and probably always will be).

Yip, it is that easy....especially if you want to go really, really fast Gotway is defintily the way to go. As it gets crazy anyway at Speeds higher than 50kmh, the small GW reliable Problems  also doesn't matter anymore. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by KingSong69

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Why would you say the msuper is faster?

Also, which one of the two (18S vs ms3) feels more torque-y, or why would you say the msuper is better for mountains?

I think I'm going to stop talking about which wheel is faster because I'm never going to push the speed limits. So I have nothing objective to add. Instead I'll talk about acceleration and the ease at which you can go fast.

In my opinion the MSuper V3s+ (84-volt) has an easier time achieving 23+ mph speeds than the KS18S.

The MSuper still feels more maneuverable than the the KS18S, and on the limited mountain riding that I've done, it was harder to grip the slippery KS18S shell when driving the wheel up a steep incline. Of course the shell padding could be modified to help, but out-of-the-box, the MSuper is an easier wheel to grip with your legs. 

[Marty Backe]

46 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Yeah, it is at least discussable!

While i also get the Point/argument that they want you to be a KS18 experienced rider(on THIS wheeltype) before having you driving crazy 50kmh Speed.

It is 25mph=40kmh btw, but that's the main Point for me....i would top that as enough to 97% percent for me :-)

And i say it again: perhaps on a bigger wheel like the Monster faster than 40 is somewhat of comfortable...on 16/18 Inch wheels i get a good lough when People tell me they absolutly want/need to ride that fast all the time. Euc's in this category are just not meant for going that fast. And seeing all that video's of many dozen of Group or single riders prove me right. Never saw that Speed demons. Going over 40kmh might be nice for a small Adrenalin shot...but not more :-)

Yip, it is that easy....especially if you want to go really, really fast Gotway is defintily the way to go. As it gets crazy anyway at Speeds higher than 50kmh, the small GW reliable Problems  also doesn't matter anymore. 

Agree with you. But on this one (highlighted in bold) point I still don't get it. I'm an experienced rider on this wheel type and I decide to buy another one because I sold my existing wheel to a friend. Now I'm stuck at lower speed for 4-months (or more). It's stupid no matter how you look at it (imho).

[US69]

31 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Agree with you. But on this one (highlighted in bold) point I still don't get it. I'm an experienced rider on this wheel type and I decide to buy another one because I sold my existing wheel to a friend. Now I'm stuck at lower speed for 4-months (or more). It's stupid no matter how you look at it (imho).

you are right! I guess they mean it good(protect the rider) but done it the wrong way! 

 

Btw.: 4 months? Come on :-) I have done the job in 6 weeks :-)

but i forgot that you have to share your ride time to the 5wheels you have...5?or6?

 

And: Respect for your views, thought, impressions and this thread so far! You have proved again that you are a true wheel enthusiast...and not fixed to GW only! :-)

[Marty Backe]

45 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

you are right! I guess they mean it good(protect the rider) but done it the wrong way! 

 

Btw.: 4 months? Come on :-) I have done the job in 6 weeks :-)

but i forgot that you have to share your ride time to the 5wheels you have...5?or6?

 

And: Respect for your views, thought, impressions and this thread so far! You have proved again that you are a true wheel enthusiast...and not fixed to GW only! :-)

Exactly. For me (six nice wheels), it takes awhile to accumulate 600-miles on a particular wheel.

Thank you, I appreciate that you think I'm fair and balanced even though I do think Gotway wheels are the best  

[US69]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

 

Thank you, I appreciate that you think I'm fair and balanced even though I do think Gotway wheels are the best  

Now you ruined it ;-) But i guess this was ironic.....