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Another new Kingsong (16S) Owner


gr8ps

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6 minutes ago, CaptainKBLS said:

hmmmmm, I use my ACM to take out the trash all the time.  It is slow at start as you're pushing a heavy load.  Should I stop doing this?  

I think slow to start is different than trying to overcome an obstacle at slow speed, as shown in the above video. The key is to avoid situations where you are trying to drive the wheel forward (if only for 1/2-second) but the wheel is prevented from moving.

I would have no problem riding my wheel up a 2-inch curb at 1-mph. But I wouldn't hop on the wheel as it is pressed up against a 2-inch curb and then try driving it up and forward.

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9 minutes ago, CaptainKBLS said:

hmmmmm, I use my ACM to take out the trash all the time.  It is slow at start as you're pushing a heavy load.  Should I stop doing this?  

 I refuse to give up plowing snow with mine.  ;)

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8 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

 I refuse to give up plowing snow with mine.  ;)

So your design allows for hot-swapping between the spray can and the (yet to be unveiled) "plough attachment" ??? 

And don't even consider telling us you haven't thought about it... 

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47 minutes ago, CaptainKBLS said:

hmmmmm, I use my ACM to take out the trash all the time.  It is slow at start as you're pushing a heavy load.  Should I stop doing this?  

The other day I was sitting on a bench pushing my KS16s back and forth with my feet.  Just for fun, I put pressure on the back of the pedals with my heels, but I locked my legs straight, so the wheel couldn't move.  The more I pushed, the harder it tried.  Then it said "BE CAUTION, OVER POWER"  Besides being amused/ annoyed at the chinglish, I was curious what power it was talking about.  After repeating this several times I connected Darkness bot and did it again, several more times.  The watts meter went up to about 1500 when the message sounded.  Now, because the wheel was prevented from moving, I consider this exercise similar to the video with the 3cm twig, in terms of a dead stop power demand.  I did it 7 or 8 times, and rode off afterwards, without a second thought.  

So, will a wheel crap out at a "dead stop twig"? Who knows? Mine wouldn't..

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35 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

So your design allows for hot-swapping between the spray can and the (yet to be unveiled) "plough attachment" ??? 

And don't even consider telling us you haven't thought about it... 

I’ve got it covered. Call me the Ron Popiel of stupid EUC inventions. Yah I already know...the plow is mounted on the rear. ;)

25570830278_b4ed1b456e_b.jpg

 

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53 minutes ago, Smoother said:

The other day I was sitting on a bench pushing my KS16s back and forth with my feet.  Just for fun, I put pressure on the back of the pedals with my heels, but I locked my legs straight, so the wheel couldn't move.  The more I pushed, the harder it tried.  Then it said "BE CAUTION, OVER POWER"  Besides being amused/ annoyed at the chinglish, I was curious what power it was talking about.  After repeating this several times I connected Darkness bot and did it again, several more times.  The watts meter went up to about 1500 when the message sounded.  Now, because the wheel was prevented from moving, I consider this exercise similar to the video with the 3cm twig, in terms of a dead stop power demand.  I did it 7 or 8 times, and rode off afterwards, without a second thought.  

So, will a wheel crap out at a "dead stop twig"? Who knows? Mine wouldn't..

Hopefully our wheels won't, but I wouldn't try your experiment on any of my Gotway wheels. That's a deficiency in their design. Hopefully someday Gotway will match KingSong in this regard. But I still wouldn't push (see what I did there :)) your luck by repeatedly triggering that alarm.

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45 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I’ve got it covered. Call me the Ron Popiel of stupid EUC inventions. Yah I already know...the plow is mounted on the rear. ;)

I notice the tow hitch on the back there too...

towhitch.jpg

Is that for something special? Or do I need to sign an NDA before you will tell me?

 

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7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Hopefully our wheels won't, but I wouldn't try your experiment on any of my Gotway wheels. That's a deficiency in their design. Hopefully someday Gotway will match KingSong in this regard. But I still wouldn't push (see what I did there :)) your luck by repeatedly triggering that alarm.

Yeah, I had the same thought.  But it's nice to know that it can repeatedly handle it, as it should.  Btw holding back 1500W of force didn't seem that difficult.  It's not like I've got rugby player thighs.  Still, it's more than the 800W 14c/d and 16d, and they climb fine so I guess its ample for the job it's designed to do.

edit.  On second thoughts, if you watch any King Song burn-in video, the rider really hammers the emergency brake test repeatedly, I'm guessing up to 20 times in a row, then hits that steep incline forwards and backwards like it's not there, a dozen times too.  If a MOSfet is going to go fzzzzz. That would be the time.

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7 hours ago, Smoother said:

if you watch any King Song burn-in video, the rider really hammers the emergency brake test repeatedly, I'm guessing up to 20 times in a row, then hits that steep incline forwards and backwards like it's not there, a dozen times too.  If a MOSfet is going to go fzzzzz. That would be the time.

Short bursts of high current are different from a continuous draw of high current. A hot MOSFET is an angry MOSFET.

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2 hours ago, dmethvin said:

Short bursts of high current are different from a continuous draw of high current. A hot MOSFET is an angry MOSFET.

Maybe my knowledge of what cooks MOSfets is not comprehensive, but in terms of the little twig in the video, that my posts are referring to, what do we think fried in the wheel, when a short burst made it fall over the twig? I thought it was a MOSfet.

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On 1/1/2018 at 9:34 PM, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Is that for something special? Or do I need to sign an NDA before you will tell me?

 

That’s really ballsy putting a hitch on my custom ACM. I could injure myself. :o

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On 1/1/2018 at 7:29 PM, Smoother said:

The other day I was sitting on a bench pushing my KS16s back and forth with my feet.  Just for fun, I put pressure on the back of the pedals with my heels, but I locked my legs straight, so the wheel couldn't move.  The more I pushed, the harder it tried.  Then it said "BE CAUTION, OVER POWER"  

I suspect this might be one of the harder, if not the hardest, tests a wheel can do.

I occasionally mount from a bench sitting down, I got a warning when I mounted from a loose brick wall instead of a bench, whereby the wheel pushes against the wall for a short time as one gets on. I think that constant power of the wheel pushing against the wall is far beyond anything else we ask the wheel to do when we are on it.

Why do I think this? The brick wall is visibly moved a tiny bit, and the brick got indented. Now you try doing the same thing with your body; you might be able to do that with your legs but it is hard.

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I wanted to say I'm having some mild buyer's remorse. The 16S is great, over 100 trouble free miles since I first bought it. 22 mph seemed crazy fast at first but not so much anymore, especially when I'm decked out in protective gear. My setup is similar to @YoshiSkySun's less the armored jacket. I'm running into the tilt back a lot...really wish the 16S went 30 mph. *le sigh. 

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1 hour ago, gr8ps said:

I wanted to say I'm having some mild buyer's remorse. The 16S is great, over 100 trouble free miles since I first bought it. 22 mph seemed crazy fast at first but not so much anymore, especially when I'm decked out in protective gear. My setup is similar to @YoshiSkySun's less the armored jacket. I'm running into the tilt back a lot...really wish the 16S went 30 mph. *le sigh. 

You mean you wish you had bought a Tesla? Go on, you can say it.  However when something launches you down the road at 22mph, you might reconsider your wishes.

keep the 16s clean, don't lose the charger ( if you know what I mean) sell it on locally, and get you a Tesla.  It's not the most direct route, but you won't have lost too much moolah in the process.

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7 hours ago, gr8ps said:

I wanted to say I'm having some mild buyer's remorse. The 16S is great, over 100 trouble free miles since I first bought it. 22 mph seemed crazy fast at first but not so much anymore, especially when I'm decked out in protective gear. My setup is similar to @YoshiSkySun's less the armored jacket. I'm running into the tilt back a lot...really wish the 16S went 30 mph. *le sigh. 

I really like the KingSong wheels, but that speed limiter ....

I love all the Gotway wheels because they all have top-end speeds much higher than I ever ride, so I never experience tilt-back during my rides (unless I'm riding my KS14S).

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10 hours ago, gr8ps said:

I wanted to say I'm having some mild buyer's remorse. The 16S is great, over 100 trouble free miles since I first bought it. 22 mph seemed crazy fast at first but not so much anymore, especially when I'm decked out in protective gear. My setup is similar to @YoshiSkySun's less the armored jacket. I'm running into the tilt back a lot...really wish the 16S went 30 mph. *le sigh. 

You're not the only one; I'm in the same boat as well. My KS16s is just a bunch of compromises that make it a great first wheel but a rather poor secondary wheel. I've put about 1200 miles on mine, so it shows I use it the most of my wheels, and since I haven't crashed it yet it possibly shows a boring wheel is a safe wheel. It reiterates my position that a rider is well-served by having just two wheels.

A 14 incher like an S1/V5/KS14 and a great big one like an MSuper/KS18/Monster. Maybe an MTEN in place of the 14 inchers.

Although...maybe a 16 inchers made with no compromises could serve as a single wheel. To me that's the Holy Grail. Just have one wheel that can do it all, look great, nimble, long ranged, and crash-worthy.

As insane as it sounds, I think we might be pretty close to that Holy Grail. We're almost there with the KS16s, the Tesla. I think the 35-45 pound KS18L/Ninebot Z just might be the first and last wheel for most people, even enthusiasts.

It seems to me the trend is towards bigger-battery faster safer wheels, the wheels are getting more refined, and converging towards some Apple-esque form factor with smooth edges and corners.

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15 hours ago, Smoother said:

You mean you wish you had bought a Tesla? Go on, you can say it.  However when something launches you down the road at 22mph, you might reconsider your wishes.

keep the 16s clean, don't lose the charger ( if you know what I mean) sell it on locally, and get you a Tesla.  It's not the most direct route, but you won't have lost too much moolah in the process.

Yes and no. I've heard the Tesla is kind of like a glass cannon with it having a fairly fragile shell. My Kingsong has taken some good tumbles, in one instance it did a 360 in the air and crashed back down when I had to bail while practicing going backwards at a good speed. I've laid it down dozens of times going backwards, slammed it into walls, into curbs hidden by grass, etc. It is still feeling pretty solid. I don't think the Tesla would have held up as well. I also didn't see any replacement parts available for the Tesla yet on ewheels so I didn't feel too good about that. 

I have a friend who likes riding but isn't willing to put up the cash for a wheel. I may just spring for a faster wheel a few months down the rode and just let him ride the KS16. Come on Kingsong, give us something with some speed! I may just have to get a Tesla if there isn't anything in the pipeline. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, LanghamP said:

wheels are getting more refined, and converging towards some Apple-esque form factor with smooth edges and corners

iwheel.jpg.b7f632da1a988ae91430065e5dd90a13.jpg

iWheel? (Actually, it would be nice to have AppleCare-like support on such pricey tech.) :rolleyes:

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On 1/1/2018 at 4:48 PM, steve454 said:

This seems a little weird, that a slow speed bump could fry the wheel.

 

This was exactly my experience with my Gotway MSuper. Bonked it into a wall softly and it blew the MosFets. 

Ran my Segway S1 into a wall really, REALLY hard.. it just laughed it off. 

It can happen THAT easily.. at least to a Gotway. 

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11 hours ago, gr8ps said:

My Kingsong has taken some good tumbles

scratch the idea of keeping it clean then.:facepalm:.

If King Song released a firmware update that moved the tilt back to 40kph and made it more mellow and progressive so it didn't hit like a sledge hammer to the heels, would that be enough to satisfy yours and some others desire for a little bit more?  It Would for me.

 Others have told me the tilt back on the 16s is less aggressive than the 14c, but the other day, in a busy high street, I got a tilt back that was half way on the pucker factor scale, complete with mild arm waving.  I stayed on, but my old 14c fears came back.  I agree with what @Marty Backe said about his high speed safety, being a wheel that can go much faster than he ever rides, and no fear of Cato-like tilt back surprise attacks.

 

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8 hours ago, GoinPostal said:

This was exactly my experience with my Gotway MSuper. Bonked it into a wall softly and it blew the MosFets. 

Ran my Segway S1 into a wall really, REALLY hard.. it just laughed it off. 

It can happen THAT easily.. at least to a Gotway. 

Wow, talk about instilling no confidence!  Glass MOSfets, ouch.

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4 hours ago, Smoother said:

scratch the idea of keeping it clean then.:facepalm:.

If King Song released a firmware update that moved the tilt back to 40kph and made it more mellow and progressive so it didn't hit like a sledge hammer to the heels, would that be enough to satisfy yours and some others desire for a little bit more?  It Would for me.

 Others have told me the tilt back on the 16s is less aggressive than the 14c, but the other day, in a busy high street, I got a tilt back that was half way on the pucker factor scale, complete with mild arm waving.  I stayed on, but my old 14c fears came back.  I agree with what @Marty Backe said about his high speed safety, being a wheel that can go much faster than he ever rides, and no fear of Cato-like tilt back surprise attacks.

 

Love your continued stories of tilt-back almost killing you :D

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4 hours ago, Smoother said:

Wow, talk about instilling no confidence!  Glass MOSfets, ouch.

His was really a freak failure. It's unfortunate because the experience really turned @GoinPostal off to Gotway. It's too bad that he couldn't recognize it as a one-off occurrence and that Gotway wheels don't generally fail when bumping into things.

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6 hours ago, Smoother said:

scratch the idea of keeping it clean then.:facepalm:.

If King Song released a firmware update that moved the tilt back to 40kph and made it more mellow and progressive so it didn't hit like a sledge hammer to the heels, would that be enough to satisfy yours and some others desire for a little bit more?  It Would for me.

 Others have told me the tilt back on the 16s is less aggressive than the 14c, but the other day, in a busy high street, I got a tilt back that was half way on the pucker factor scale, complete with mild arm waving.  I stayed on, but my old 14c fears came back.  I agree with what @Marty Backe said about his high speed safety, being a wheel that can go much faster than he ever rides, and no fear of Cato-like tilt back surprise attacks.

 

Tiltbacks require constant practice at say 5mph in order not to take you by surprise. I think they are valuable if you have poor speed control and are in a noisy environment as you get a tactile instead of a vocal warning.

Be advised creeping up slowly to a tiltback is different from blowing through one. Some wheels have the same tiltback process regardless of how quickly you blow through them whereas others rear up with evil intent.

I know I'm lazy, but I do try to practice tiltback at super low speeds.

I would also recommend treating tiltback as a very dangerous poisonous snake; do not make it a regular occurrence to step on it. You should be scared when you hit tiltback as the wheel is trying to warn you when you're in great danger.

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