Jump to content

Rubber thickness?


Scatcat

Recommended Posts

Had to un-stud my wheel, as I had a slow leak today. Only had a pressure-less slime-can handy, and managed to put some in. I hope it will suffice, or I'll have to buy a pressurised can. The tire I ordered should be around soon anyways, so as long as it holds pressure I won't take it apart until I get a new tire to put on.

Some thoughts:

  • Don't put the studs in a row like I did in the pictures above. It would have been better if they hade been laterally separated some. When in a row, they all bite at the same time, which makes smooth turns and hard turns trickier. It is as if the tire has one turning speed, and one only.
  • Make sure the rubber is a millimeter or two thicker than the depth of the stud. It will sit better, and the risk of punctures goes down drastically.
  • The studs create more rolling resistance and a lot of chatter, they also create vibrations sideways on hard surfaces like tarmac or concrete, that takes some getting used to.
  • The grip on ice is awesome, they also help a bit on semi-hard mud and hard-packed sand. :) 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Bought some anti-puncture mousse in a pressurised can. Worked totally fine, but the screw on valve gave me a surprise when I unscrewed it, as about a cubic metre of mousse leaked out of the tube before I finally got it unscrewed! I had mousse everywhere, on my hands, gloves, wheel, floor - damnitalltohell... :D 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the bloody mousse plugged the manometer in my pump too. I thought I put in 2.7kg, when in reality I put in 3.7kg... That was an interesting experience of riding on a Flintstone EUC...:roflmao:

Can't say I want to repeat it anytime soon, when I wanted to turn it preferred to try to keep upright on the central run, when I wanted to go straight it tried to slip sideways... I got where I wanted without mishap, but the word relaxed was pretty far from my mind. :facepalm:

Oh! And all the small bumps felt like curbs, while the curbs felt like going in a stair... upwards!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

If anyone ( @EUC Extreme for instance ) know of a tire/tyre that has enough rubber thickness without adding too much height, I would be very interested. I seems that for 16x2.125 the market for heavy duty tires/tyres is rather limited.

I've looked at Kenda, ChaoYang, CST, Schwalbe, and they all seem to have about 2-3 mm tread on a 2mm wall. The weight ranges from 600 grams to around 1000 grams, which tells me they're too thin. Even the CST "puncture proof" tires seem to be too thin, with the "extra thickness" coming from the anti puncture bands rather than from the rubber wall.

Basically I would need a tyre with at total rubber thickness of about 7mm on the tread bumps, anti puncture liner would be a bonus, but the studs need to be in the rubber not in the liner.

So anyone know of a 16x2.125 (54-305 to 57-305) that fits the bill?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, the mad mikes I bought are indeed a bit thicker than the Kenda snow tire. The geometry also seem to be a bit smoother, which will probably make them easier to ride on hard ground. They are obviously heavier and takes a lot more psi. But they could still be a millimeter or two thicker.

In the pic below I've added studs. They're as deep as I dare, since I screwed them in to the point where I can just start to feel them through the inner wall, but before they start to bulge the weave. That way the puncture proofing should be enough to keep them out of the tube.

I'm still not entirely comfortable: the studs should be a bit deeper in, and there should be a mm more of rubber between the inner wall and stud. But it should work.

studs-mad-mike.thumb.jpg.c2ab5fc109d02af82dfdba14e0d9e3a7.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe you can just try to add a thin layer with some kind of silicone free adhesive inside the tire - such as 'sikaflex' but I'm not sure.

But the tire needs to be balanced with weights then surely ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Smoother said:

Have you thought about a light motorcycle tire? something like this

https://www.tyretectrading.co.uk/pirelli-scorpion- mx-mid-soft-32-90-100-16-rear.html

I haven't analyzed this specific size for suitability.  Just an idea on how to achieve the desired rubber depth.

The problem with 2.125” is that it is a bicycle size. The tyre you linked to is a 90/100 which means 3.54” width. While I would love to have such a tyre, I’d have rebuild the whole EUC to fit it. I.e grind down half an inch on the pedal arms, and fit some form of shim between the halves of the shell. A shim that would still allow the control box on top of it. It would be almost as easy to build your own shell...

Looking at MC-tyres that might fit, effectively takes away all but a few choices of "moped"-tyres. They’re probably about as thick as the mad mikes.

There are reasons why I hope the trend goes to slightly wider tyres in future generations of EUC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, s.m. said:

Maybe you can just try to add a thin layer with some kind of silicone free adhesive inside the tire - such as 'sikaflex' but I'm not sure.

But the tire needs to be balanced with weights then surely ....

I’ve thought about adding a layer of epoxy on the inside. Not sure if it would do the trick though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Scatcat said:

The problem with 2.125” is that it is a bicycle size. The tyre you linked to is a 90/100 which means 3.54” width. While I would love to have such a tyre, I’d have rebuild the whole EUC to fit it. I.e grind down half an inch on the pedal arms, and fit some form of shim between the halves of the shell. A shim that would still allow the control box on top of it. It would be almost as easy to build your own shell...

Well, in that case, here's some inspiration for you... 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Scatcat said:

Someone has had all too much fun with PS :roflmao:

How the F would you ride that one?

Apparently like this

It is ridiculously wide though, I can't imagine ever buying such a wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep in mind that motorcycle/scooter/moped tires come in rim sizes, not in tire sizes. So a 16" motorcycle tire sits on a 16" rim, while on an EUC the 16" refers to the diameter of the running surface... So probably the 14" motorcycle tire is already to large for a 16" EUC. Didn't measure the rim size though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said:

Keep in mind that motorcycle/scooter/moped tires come in rim sizes, not in tire sizes. So a 16" motorcycle tire sits on a 16" rim, while on an EUC the 16" refers to the diameter of the running surface... So probably the 14" motorcycle tire is already to large for a 16" EUC. Didn't measure the rim size though.

Wow, that's amazing.  I just measured my 14", and you're absolutely right.  How weird is that? the (14) rim is actually about 10.5".  I've had that wheel in pieces for over a month and never once thought to measure it. Its hard to measure across a wheel in the EUC, but mine is loose so I was in a better position than most to see that.  Epic fail. :facepalm:

A quick crude measurement of the radius of the wheel in a 16", in situ in the EUC, shows 6" so the closest motorcycle/scooter tire would be 12" ESTIMATED.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Slaughthammer said:

on an EUC the 16" refers to the diameter of the running surface

good catch, the other measure on the 16" tyre, xx-305, gives the rim diameter in mm. Everything from 305mm to 349mm could apparently qualify as 16", see

https://www.schwalbe.com/en/groessenbezeichnung.html 

305mm are precisely 12", however I would guess that most motorbike tyres are too wide to fit to and in particular stay on an EUC rim when filled with air.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

305mm is the rim yes. And given the space in a EUC I doubt I could fit anything wider than 2.25", not for the width, but for the profile height. Not without taking the pedal arms to a machine shop and shortening them half an inch to get the wheel lower in the shell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Mono said:

Apparently like this

It is ridiculously wide though, I can't imagine ever buying such a wheel.

Would be good for shits and giggles though... :D

But outright scary at speed if you hit some bump unevenly...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can already say that the Schwalbe Mad Mike tyres, are a lot better than the Kenda clones. The geometry just seems smoother and feels a lot better when riding. So far they hold up to the studs, but the studs stick out a bit too much, which makes the EUC a bit more twitchy than normally.

I expect delivery of the Schwalbe studs on monday, and as soon as I get the time I'll swap. I expect them to be more flush with the tyre, and to compensate I'll probably use more than the 24 studs I use now. That should give enough grip and get the twitchiness down to a more comfortable level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After a lot of procrastination I finally put the new studs in. It was a much more complicated affair than the screw-in studs, and the Mad Mikes is not ideal for the studs.

Let me illustrate the problem with a picture:

2018-01-21-16_41_26.thumb.jpg.743a1b984bf5ff9eb2729f017e5073e2.jpg

As you can see the studs each sit in a groove, which means the amount of rubber surrounding the stud is less than ideal. I think it should hold anyway, but I probably should put some glue around the studs.

If anyone has any idea on the best glue to use, feel free to give your advice :) 

The process of putting them in was a bit complicated, as the tyres didn't have pre-prepared pockets for the studs.

  1. First I measured how deep they should go and put a drill in with a stopper to avoid puncturing the tyre.
  2. Then I cut and dremeld a nail of the right size and put it as a solder head in my soldering iron.
  3. For each stud I did a hole with the drill, and then a pocket with the soldering iron.
  4. Afterwards I immediately inserted and seated the stud, letting the rubber cool around it.

Remember! If you've used tyre slime with flammable gas in the tyre, make sure you have ventilated the butane/propane/whatever thoroughly. Or you may get tyre tracks with studs planted in your face when the gas overheats...

Below the tools I used:

2018-01-21-16_41_02.thumb.jpg.04c399900f28946002aaa9db0afda34e.jpg

I'll report further how well this holds up and how good the studs are in practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...