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Rubber thickness?


Scatcat
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Is there anyone that have an inkling about the rubber thickness of this tyre. It is the one you get as standard with V2.

I'm asking because I'm about to screw in "bestgrip"-studs in it, and they go ~6.5-7mm into the rubber. It should be OK, especially since there are no point on the studs on the inward side, but I thought it might be a good idea to check if anyone knows...

tyre.thumb.jpg.0711b889f66c14766c33a9dd23b5a0c6.jpg

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5 hours ago, Scatcat said:

Is there anyone that have an inkling about the rubber thickness of this tyre. It is the one you get as standard with V2.

I'm asking because I'm about to screw in "bestgrip"-studs in it, and they go ~6.5-7mm into the rubber. It should be OK, especially since there are no point on the studs on the inward side, but I thought it might be a good idea to check if anyone knows...

tyre.thumb.jpg.0711b889f66c14766c33a9dd23b5a0c6.jpg

@EUC Extreme  would probably know,  not sure if I remember correctly, but I think he said an off road knobby tread tire is needed,  because the rubber was not thick enough on the stock tire.  Maybe you could deflate the tire, pull one small section of tube out, put one or two studs and see if they go all the way through.  

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16 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

From all the bike tires I have seen I'd be surprised if it is thick enough and you'd need some serious knobbles to allow secure placement of a stud without splitting the surrounding rubber. I could be wrong though and if you do get them situated safely I would still recommend a tire liner of some kind to protect the tube as I'm sure the studs will be close to breaking through the wall even if they can't been seen. Normally liners seem to cause more problems than they are worth. Especially if you have to trim them down to fit. But I can see some advantage here.

Very interested to see the outcome of this.

The whole thing in the picture is about 6mm x 8.4mm - and the bottom has no point going inwards. The tyre cord/liner should be able to stop the metal from penetrating, at least as long as I don't use the electric screwdriver or too much force...

But if the thing goes in too deep, it will probably mean eventual failure. Not a bad idea to deflate the tyre. That way I can feel on the inside if I'm too close to the liner.

1000_medium.jpg.7832b1eaa14a742c38e793a51526c858.jpg

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42 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Green light for you then! :thumbup:

Hmm, maybe. While the pattern is the same, there seem to be some shallow pattern on the sides that ain't exactly the same on mine... They're both 54-305 though, and probably equivalent. Might just be different years of manufacture.

EDIT: Actually the LHotz tyre is 64-305, not 54-305, which explains the differences.

Edited by Scatcat
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A bit of surfing and I now know it is a ChaoYang 16x2.125 H-5146, and it seems it is armored to some extent against punctures, but I still have no idea how thick the rubber is in total. This will indeed be interesting...

Also I will probably have to ditch the built in mud-flap for the winter, unless I want to file it down to nothing. :roflmao:

Luckily I've been there before, and know how to fix a self-made solution that will work just as well. It might not be as pretty, but it is probably more effective in actually stopping the spray of shit hitting my back and butt.

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FYI the 16x2.125 Chao Yang H-5146 is a bit thinner than the 16x2.5 (big surprise there)...

  • Thread thickness is 3.2mm at its thickest, more like 2.5 towards the center.
  • The base rubber thickness is something in the order of 2mm.
  • Beneath the rubber there is a protective backing that is somewhere between 0.5 and 1mm thick.

Screwing in studs in the tire means the studs bulge the protective backing and that they can easily penetrate if you screw them in even slightly too much. I've mounted the studs and to give an extra layer of protection I took the advice of a bike repairman and used some duct tape on top of the bulges that this creates.

I am unsure if this is going to be OK. The studs stick out 0.5-1mm more than they're meant to and that is the limit for how far in I can get them without creating a risk of puncture...

I am going to order a reserve standard tire, and start looking for another alternative tyre that is better suited for the purpose. I also realised this tube has not been slimed, so I'm going to get me some of that to minimise the risk of hernia carrying a punctured wheel through the snow... ?

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41 minutes ago, Gimlet said:

A slighty narrower slick tyre with the beads and some of the sidewall removed would make an effective tyre liner to prevent the studs damaging the tube.

 

Fitting it in would be hell on earth, but material-wise it would be ideal. I'm going to look around a bit for alternatives. Best of all would be finding a 16x2.125 that isn't a glorified bike tire, something in the weight-span of 1.1-1.2kg rather than 800g. If anyone has any brilliant ideas of such a tire, give a holler!

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As long as the width is a little less than your 16 x 2.125, maybe a 16 x 1.95, then the diameter will be slightly smaller so once you've removed the beads and trimmed the sidewalls slightly it shouldn't be too difficult to get it inside your 2.125 tyre as you put it on the wheel rim.

Fit the first bead then insert the cut down tyre and then fit the tube followed by the second tyre bead.

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2 hours ago, Gimlet said:

As long as the width is a little less than your 16 x 2.125, maybe a 16 x 1.95, then the diameter will be slightly smaller so once you've removed the beads and trimmed the sidewalls slightly it shouldn't be too difficult to get it inside your 2.125 tyre as you put it on the wheel rim.

Fit the first bead then insert the cut down tyre and then fit the tube followed by the second tyre bead.

But will that work right? I mean unless you cut the smaller tire really well and smooth, will the pressure on the main tire be even enough? the rubber of a tire is pretty stiff, and getting pockets of lower pressure won't do wonders for controllability.

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I would use something like a pair of kitchen scissors to trim the smaller tyre, that should give a reasonable finish.

You only need to leave the centre section of tread where the studs are so the sidewall flexibility shouldn't be affected much.

I believe that Euc Extreme cut and glued several layrs of inner tube on the inside of his studded tyre to protect from punctures, but that seems much more complex to me.

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A video from electricunicycle.eu (video thread) just showed a V8 with a winter tire fitted. They have a selection of heavy tread tires on their site that could work well in this project. Have a look here:

https://www.electricunicycles.eu/store_t3_category-winter_and_off_road_tyres-sc__12

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4 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

A video from electricunicycle.eu (video thread) just showed a V8 with a winter tire fitted. They have a selection of heavy tread tires on their site that could work well in this project. Have a look here:

https://www.electricunicycles.eu/store_t3_category-winter_and_off_road_tyres-sc__12

A big thanks for the link, think I got too fixated on AliExpress, buying these types of things are just as cheap to do locally. Bought a blue one :D, hope the hue doesn't clash with the blue in the GT16... :roflmao:

It does look a lot like Schwalbee's "Mad Mike"...

kenda-blue.thumb.jpeg.15c5ee793ed5abc534a350958a836cb0.jpeg

Edited by Scatcat
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3 hours ago, Gimlet said:

I would use something like a pair of kitchen scissors to trim the smaller tyre, that should give a reasonable finish.

You only need to leave the centre section of tread where the studs are so the sidewall flexibility shouldn't be affected much.

I believe that Euc Extreme cut and glued several layrs of inner tube on the inside of his studded tyre to protect from punctures, but that seems much more complex to me.

I bought myself a snow tire, which will probably be a lot better for the studs.

For now it seems to hold up well, I've put 2.7 kgs in the tire without issue. Riding it for maybe two miles.

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On 12/12/2017 at 5:59 AM, Scatcat said:

The whole thing in the picture is about 6mm x 8.4mm - and the bottom has no point going inwards. The tyre cord/liner should be able to stop the metal from penetrating, at least as long as I don't use the electric screwdriver or too much force...

But if the thing goes in too deep, it will probably mean eventual failure. Not a bad idea to deflate the tyre. That way I can feel on the inside if I'm too close to the liner.

1000_medium.jpg.7832b1eaa14a742c38e793a51526c858.jpg

Those little buggers are expensive! In the US, I think they are marketed as "Gripstud" and cost roughly $1 USD each sold in packs of 100, plus $10 for the tool, or $35.90 for 30 pieces on Amazon. @EUC Extreme and his sources rate them highly, though.

I just purchased an inexpensive winter tire and am considering a low-budget solution like this at less than 1/10th the cost.

I am looking forward to your photos, videos, and commentary!

@EUC Extreme's videos:

 

 

Edited by litewave
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10 hours ago, Gimlet said:

A slighty narrower slick tyre with the beads and some of the sidewall removed would make an effective tyre liner to prevent the studs damaging the tube.

 

Bicycle tire liners are also an option. Some of the DIY solutions on YouTube use duck tape, or an old inner tube

5 hours ago, Gimlet said:

I would use something like a pair of kitchen scissors to trim the smaller tyre, that should give a reasonable finish.

You only need to leave the centre section of tread where the studs are so the sidewall flexibility shouldn't be affected much.

I believe that Euc Extreme cut and glued several layrs of inner tube on the inside of his studded tyre to protect from punctures, but that seems much more complex to me.

I think he was (among) the first to do this with EUCs 2-3 years ago. 

Edited by litewave
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1 hour ago, litewave said:

 

I think he was (among) the first to do this with EUCs 2-3 years ago. 

Yes I believe he was. I discussed various options with him at the time.

I did fit a 16" Schwalbe Mad Mike tyre to my old IPS and even bought some of the shortest studs available but the tyre didn't have enough meat in it to take the studs. That' when I measured up the available tyres and came up with my plan. To be honest though it's so rare that any snow and ice lasts for more than a day or two around here that it just wasn't worth the bother of swapping tyres back and forth.

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1 hour ago, EUC Extreme said:

Those little pins have been very good.
I've been using the same pins from year to year.
The first pins I bought are just as good as new ones.
Changed it to different types of rubber.
It is true that I increased the thickness of the rubber myself. But it did not work.
Pins always broke the inner rubber.
The rubber must be initially thick enough. There is no problem then.

Yeah, I've noted that the "bulges" created meant that the studs where pushed out a millimeter as soon as there was pressure in the tire.

I do hope the inner weave and the duct tape will be enough to keep the studs out of the tube for a few days, then my winter tyre will be here. I've even considered using epoxy to "isolate" the studs... :D

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Rode to work without issue, but noted one thing: As the studs come left-right-left-right and so on, they introduced a slightly wobbly feeling in the tire when on hard ground. Not in any way anything that makes control hard, just a bit disconcerting until you get used to it.

Let's hope the winter-tire I ordered gets here in the time frame the courier service estimated, and let's hope the rubber thickness in that one is more in line with what the studs need. As it is they stick out a millimeter more than they should, and that's probably why the wobbly effect is so notable.

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