Tesla Pedal Modes

[LanghamP]

You can determine if the wobble is from your stance or is from your tire pressure being inappropriate.

When you get the wobbles, start a gentle turn. If the wobble stops then the problem is your tire pressure.

If the wobble was a slow wobble then increase tire pressure. This is because the sidewall was flexing too much thereby causing the wobble.

If the wobble is fast then lower the tire pressure. This is because the sidewall isn't flexing enough and is acting like a hard spring, and as hard springs move faster you have that fast wobble, 10-20 times per second.

Tipping the tire onto its sidewall flexes the sidewall once and keeps it there, thereby stopping the flex and release cycle (unless you hit a bump!).

However, if it is your stance, then ride more.

[NECway]

Is there a "formula" for a tire pressure that would take wheel size and rider weight (plus the weigh of the wheel) into consideration that would give an optimal result?

[Meng Yang]

55 minutes ago, NECway said:

Is there a "formula" for a tire pressure that would take wheel size and rider weight (plus the weigh of the wheel) into consideration that would give an optimal result?

Don't think so. There's this thing called "Preference". Even for the same rider, on a long cruise, he may want a harder tire to improve roll and energy efficiency whereas on another day, he may just prefer an easier, more relaxing and cushy ride with softer tires.

In short, best to do some trials on your own to determine what works best for you. Yes, you. Different people can have different preferences for the same wheel on different occasions. Have fun testing! 

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, NECway said:

Is there a "formula" for a tire pressure that would take wheel size and rider weight (plus the weigh of the wheel) into consideration that would give an optimal result?

 

2 hours ago, NECway said:

Is there a "formula" for a tire pressure that would take wheel size and rider weight (plus the weigh of the wheel) into consideration that would give an optimal result?

Yes. Check the eWheels website for the tire pressure that will get you close. It factors in rider weight, wheel size. 

[Meng Yang]

31 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

 

Yes. Check the eWheels website for the tire pressure that will get you close. It factors in rider weight, wheel size. 

https://www.ewheels.com/guide-tires-appropriate-pressures-electric-unicycle/

[Meng Yang]

If I go by the eWheels recommendations, I would be looking at about 20+ PSI as "ideal" pressure for my Tesla 16 incher coz I'm 125 pounds ... Unimaginable!  

From experience, my preferred tire pressure for Tesla for most conditions is around 43 PSI.

 

[steve454]

44 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

If I go by the eWheels recommendations, I would be looking at about 20+ PSI as "ideal" pressure for my Tesla 16 incher coz I'm 125 pounds ... Unimaginable!  

From experience, my preferred tire pressure for Tesla for most conditions is around 43 PSI.

 

Well, did you try it?  

[Meng Yang]

15 minutes ago, steve454 said:

Well, did you try it?  

No way! That's gonna feel like riding in mud. Nah. I'm happy riding around between 40-45 PSI for my 16 inchers - Tesla and V8.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Meng Yang said:

If I go by the eWheels recommendations, I would be looking at about 20+ PSI as "ideal" pressure for my Tesla 16 incher coz I'm 125 pounds ... Unimaginable!  

From experience, my preferred tire pressure for Tesla for most conditions is around 43 PSI.

 

I agree, this chart is strange in my opinion. Depending on the wheel, I use between 45 and 65 psi.

I happen to know that Jason prefers a soft ride so that explains all the low numbers in this chart.

[Meng Yang]

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree, this chart is strange in my opinion. Depending on the wheel, I use between 45 and 65 psi.

I happen to know that Jason prefers a soft ride so that explains all the low numbers in this chart.

Thus, personal preferences. I remember a local Gotway seller who loves the cushy rides while I prefer the responsive but jarring rides. Borrowed his MSV3S+ for testing coz I was interested in buying one, and got the wrong impression about that wheel (not even aware of Hard/Soft settings back then). Thus, be it settings or tire pressure, its a very personal thing. The rider just needs to find what works for himself.

[LanghamP]

12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree, this chart is strange in my opinion. Depending on the wheel, I use between 45 and 65 psi.

I happen to know that Jason prefers a soft ride so that explains all the low numbers in this chart.

I also agree, as the chart should have an s-shape where the min and max pressures are level. For me, I independently arrived at within 2-4 psi after quite a bit of work so I assumed it'd be accurate enough for other people. 

[Smoother]

On 16/12/2017 at 1:34 AM, Meng Yang said:

No way! That's gonna feel like riding in mud. Nah. I'm happy riding around between 40-45 PSI for my 16 inchers - Tesla and V8.

Funny enough I went out today and  didn't like the way my tire was feeling( ks16s). Went back to the car and connected gauge. It read about 28psi. Now, I could ride it at that pressure, but it was stiff to turn and prone to snake bite flats. I weigh with heavy winter coat about 85kg or 175lb. So for a much lighter rider I could see it working, personal preferences not withstanding. 

Pumped it up to 45psi (allowing for some loss while removing the hose). So around 40psi is pretty close to the chart. 

For the first 500km I rode a ks14 at 65psi. Bounced of everything like a helium atom. Max pressure not for me. 

[Meng Yang]

Haha ... every time I bring my 600cc sportsbike to the mechanic for servicing, he always tease me for having rock-hard suspension ... LOL ... guess I'm the odd ball who likes the hard feel. Guess my arms, legs and butt are the suspension.  Too used to riding racing bicycles and inline speedskates (3 inches wheels w/o suspension) at 40-50 kph during my younger days. Even at 50 years old now, hard is still the way to go ... viagra or not. 

[Cannings]

So quick update, managed to come to work on it today and it went better than before, my helmet fogged up a bit due to the temperature so I had to open the visor quite a bit I put on some ankle high firm trainers which seemed to help and then moved my feet further forward and didn't have any wobbles really, even helped me with the more relaxed stance. I only had to stop twice and once was for crossing a big road. 

[Shad0z]

I think this is an important factor my mini pro has one issue going over curbs that is

if it gets stuck in a hole or a curb it in the first 0,1 second is stuck then it goes full power and runs out from under you... and I cant imagine what it would be like on a wheel that has twice the power        

[Bryan Wells]

the more powerful wheels don't really get stuck in that hesitation moment in the first place, they just power right through it, hard to explain, but my tesla handles sharp 1" pot holes wayy better than a 800watt wheel.

[mezzanine]

46 minutes ago, Bryan Wells said:

the more powerful wheels don't really get stuck in that hesitation moment in the first place, they just power right through it, hard to explain, but my tesla handles sharp 1" pot holes wayy better than a 800watt wheel.

Are you sure what you're observing is a function of engine power and not the weight of the wheel? 

[Shad0z]

yeah im late but.

from what i know your ideal tire pressure is when the tire compresses 15% when you stand on it

and then it is more or less depending on what you like

but around 15% compression when you stand on it still

[Smoother]

5 hours ago, Shad0z said:

yeah im late but.

from what i know your ideal tire pressure is when the tire compresses 15% when you stand on it

and then it is more or less depending on what you like

but around 15% compression when you stand on it still

Please share with us your method for measuring a 15% compression.  I'm curious and really want to know how to do this.

[Shad0z]

9 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Please share with us your method for measuring a 15% compression.  I'm curious and really want to know how to do this.

 well not easy but just to clear up anyone who might be thinking slight compression is bad and they need to pump so it is like rock. or people thinking it is supposed to be like a marshmellow...

[Smoother]

12 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

 well not easy but just to clear up anyone who might be thinking slight compression is bad and they need to pump so it is like rock. or people thinking it is supposed to be like a marshmellow...

So I can carry on using my 17.125% squish then.  That's a relief.

[Boogieman]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:32 AM, Meng Yang said:

If I go by the eWheels recommendations, I would be looking at about 20+ PSI as "ideal" pressure for my Tesla 16 incher coz I'm 125 pounds ... Unimaginable!  

From experience, my preferred tire pressure for Tesla for most conditions is around 43 PSI.

 

I weigh 87-89Kg + clothes and backpack around 91-92Kg - so 200-202lbs.
I ride the gotway Tesla 16" = translates to around 42-43psi.
I run at 45psi (allways drops 1-2psi when removing nozzle so i guess 42-43 psi).

My problem.
I am totally noob at SINGLE wheels aka EUC (I have been running my ninebot mini plus for a while though and turning, accelarating,driving that one is as easy as walking...even single leg operation and backward driving works decent).

Been training about 1-3hours a day every day now and have wobble issues for sure
Day 1: Step up, down, up down, ride a few meters...no comment
Day 2: Ride some 5-10 meters, sharp turns work fine. Long turns were hell...Tesla tumbled at 20 km/h once---luckily i added loads of foam
Day 3 - Straight forward riding at around 20 km/h...slight wobble. Braking hard....SEDRIOUS wobble. Still learning long turns...left works fine...right is hard
Day 4 - Turns are no problem any more. Straight forward is a breeze. Stepping up first 3-4 times is a bit so so but after that no issue.Braking still WOBBLES a lot.
Tried going for a long ride - 20-30km/h at night. You can clearly see headlight movine left right - left right due to wobble. Trieed squeezing hard with calves on the wheel made it worse.
Relaxed stance---still wobble.
Day 5 - today - rode around town - no major issues except this damn wobbling. everything from abot 15 km/h and up induce wobbling and it seems like the faster i go the worse it gets. Since my protective gear is still on the way i dont pass 30 km/h...ride unprotected but in "safe places" (cycle lanes and walk lanes and parks) so shuld I tumble (dont feel like that would happen) I will at most get skin rash

But still - how can i counter the:
1. High speed wobble (i would say frequency is like 5-10 Hz at 30 km/h...gettin toward 3-5HZ at 10km/h then stops)
2. Breaking wobble (a bit higher frequency - maybe 15 Hz as braking is induces and slowly slows down as speed goes down...but its INSTANT as i start braking)

I have never felt anything like this on my nine mini plus.
I have had wobbling on motor bikes, but those are two wheels and are often related to steering geometry and rebound on dampers...so cant really compare. Worst case scenario You add a steering damper (oil based) and problem is gone.

I noticed a (for me) strange thing on the tesla. As I go offroad (bumpy grass for example) the tesla leans forward a LOT more....
Also the faster i ride the more forward it leans.
Also nothing i noticed on my mini plus. If I go to fast it tilt backs HEAVY, but up to that point i just lean forward and it accelarate but never leans forward more than maybe 1-3 degrees.
The tesla feels more like 5-10 degrees (getting worried about my toes touching ground as i got big feed - size 45-46).

Have tried:
heel stance (heel planted on pedal - toes sticking out) - same issue
Medium stance (part heel planted - toes partially sticking out) - best stance for me
Toe stance (toes allmost inside front of pedal - heel in the air) - good for quick turns...horrible for long wide turns so not for me
All stances induce wobbble-

Have also tried:
- Squeezeing the wheel with calvees as wobble is induced - wobble increase = not good
- Seriously bent knees. No major difference...except my thighs get tired after some 20-30 minutes
- Squeezing with cavles AND moving feet close to the tesla body to make a "total squeeze" - also increase the wobble
- Best stance is feet just touching shell calves toward the "foam" but not squeezing...still wobble will likely be intolerable if i go 40km/h +....and worse when braking
- Pedal mode: Soft, medium, hard (i prefer hard to minimize "forward tilt when riding higher speeds")..does not seem to influence wobble...just how much it leans forward)

 

SO - whats the secret
- This is in my opinion the biggest obstacle to increase speed, reducing wobble
- Changing direction after long sweeping turns (like goind out of a roundabout) is second hardest thing as sometimes the body dont really want to lean over...feels wrong
- Getting up and getting away from 0 km/h was hard, but now i step up, push on for speed at once and its not a major issue...except first 2-3 step ups of the day...but i reckon this will be natural in a cuople of days more

Amazingly the easy part was:
- Short sharp turns (zig-zagging) at speeds about 5-15 km/h....allmost as easy as on the mini plus segway (though stability - sense of safety on that one can not be beat)
- Riding straight - fast. Albeit the wobble...the tesla just swallow bumps as they were not present.
- Riding "offroad" - I expected this to be really hard - but except the extreme forward lean of the tesla - it feels super nice...A LOT less bumpy than on the mini plus (the 4" wheels might be the reason vs the 16" on the tesla...difference is like night and day...i hardly feel a bump on the tesla that would move my feet on the foot plates on the mini plus)

I THINK i need to increase pressure? Or get stiffer side wall tyre?
I tried rotating the wheel (motor off) to see if it was out of balance, but it rotates SUPER STRAIGHT.
I dont thing balancing weights (like on car motor bike rims) should be needed...speed is to low for that...or?

It could also be due to the face that I only rode in totalt about 10 hours....and still am a bit unused and  "stiff" (though not too stiff, since i have also ridden (actually a lot better) after a glass of wine...or 3-4 glasses...same result...softer ride than without :-) but thats not a recomendation when goind around cars and people, i just do that in "clear areas" to test EUC and me. If I crash...only me (and the EUC) gets hurt (but for me it minimize the risk of crashes due to decreased "run or fight" reflexes...softens me up just perfect..same thing when skiing...it all works better after a few jaegers in the slopes LOL :D...still not a recomendation guys )

Ideas? (Yes I tried totally sauber, not better for sure :D)

@Marty Backe what pressure do You use in Your tesla. You go both fast and sweeping turns and seem to weigh in around my weight (200lbs) mabye slightly less, but still. Max pressure stamped on wheel is 35-45Psi which seems really low. Its a Heng Shin tyre (from factory) and pushing it with my hand sidways certainly moves it - so certainly not any siff side walls....dont understand why you would want this on a single wheel vehicle as You want a robust ride (sure soft is good for bumps...but that feels kind of secondary...since it swallows pot holes like youghurt...i was a bit "careful at start" but now i dont even think about obstacles...not like i do on my 4" wheel mini plus where a kerb is a guaranteed cut out unless you jump :D)

Boogie
 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Boogieman

[meepmeepmayer]

• Wobble is a rider problem. The more relaxed you are, the less chances of wobble. Being tired, fearful or tense for any other reason gets you the wobble (your delayed reactions amplify any disturbances instead of cooly absorbing them, that's the likely cause of the wobble). So your squeezing the wheel probably makes it worse. A good relaxed stance and experience is all you should need. Don't worry after only 10 hours, it will go on its own. You can help by doing everything so you're relaxed. E.g. a good foot position is a balanced one where the wheel does not move when you stepped on it with just the one foot. Stand straight, look forward, not down. Etc.
  
  For the sake of completeness/your mind, you can switch the wheel on and lift it to see that it really produces no wobble on its own (the sudden jolt before high speed cut-off is the tiltback, that's no wobble).
   

• 48 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

  I noticed a (for me) strange thing on the tesla. As I go offroad (bumpy grass for example) the tesla leans forward a LOT more....
  Also the faster i ride the more forward it leans.
  ...
  The tesla feels more like 5-10 degrees (getting worried about my toes touching ground as i got big feed - size 45-46).

  That's strange and shouldn't happen. Do a calibration, and set the ride mode to hard (for testing purposes, and make sure the app doesn't reset it - does the iOS app still do that?). The pedals should be rock hard and level then. No dipping. If the problem persists then, likely something's wrong. My bet is a calibration might do the trick.
  (You can throw off the gyro by going over a washboard-like surface like a cow grate, then gradual forward dipping is normal in this very specific situation - it goes away as soon as you rattle the wheel no longer. But dipping should not happen on simple grass! And certainly not on pavement at speed!)

• My recommendation for tire pressure: pump it up to its stated maximum, let out a tiny little bit of air (not much!) so the wheel isn't ultra hard, and that's the best pressure. Little harder to balance than low tire pressure, but springier response.

[Boogieman]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

• Wobble is a rider problem. The more relaxed you are, the less chances of wobble. Being tired, fearful or tense for any other reason gets you the wobble (your delayed reactions amplify any disturbances instead of cooly absorbing them, that's the likely cause of the wobble). So your squeezing the wheel probably makes it worse. A good relaxed stance and experience is all you should need. Don't worry after only 10 hours, it will go on its own. You can help by doing everything so you're relaxed. E.g. a good foot position is a balanced one where the wheel does not move when you stepped on it with just the one foot. Stand straight, look forward, not down. Etc.
  
  For the sake of completeness/your mind, you can switch the wheel on and lift it to see that it really produces no wobble on its own (the sudden jolt before high speed cut-off is the tiltback, that's no wobble).
   

• That's strange and shouldn't happen. Do a calibration, and set the ride mode to hard (for testing purposes, and make sure the app doesn't reset it - does the iOS app still do that?). The pedals should be rock hard and level then. No dipping. If the problem persists then, likely something's wrong. My bet is a calibration might do the trick.
  (You can throw off the gyro by going over a washboard-like surface like a cow grate, then gradual forward dipping is normal in this very specific situation - it goes away as soon as you rattle the wheel no longer. But dipping should not happen on simple grass! And certainly not on pavement at speed!)

• My recommendation for tire pressure: pump it up to its stated maximum, let out a tiny little bit of air (not much!) so the wheel isn't ultra hard, and that's the best pressure. Little harder to balance than low tire pressure, but springier response.

I tested calibration in the "wheelog" app but does not seem to work.
Still when i power on the wheel the pedals are very "horisontal" and thats basically what calibration does - sets your desired "horisontal level".

When i go on grass it is a bit "wash board like" - bumpy as f..ck constantly and thats when it tilts forward the most.
When i ride flat it tilt forward a bit but not as much...though have never passed 30km/h and set warning at 20 30 40 km/h in wheel log and amp warning at 100 amps.
Tiltback...have not felt that yet  i think...im so used to the extreme tilback of my mini plus i would not sense it unless its as extreme
But the forward tilt feels odd...

I am at about 10 hours total riding time and have tried different stances and grades of relaxation (up to being pretty drunk lol) but i dont sense the difference in wobble.
If i stand totally relaxed not touching the shell when braking it will wobble between my legs/calves, thats the best i can get. If i squeeze it gets worse, so i brake wit widened calves (flare out as a i brake) but still....I Will take a video of the head light as that is very obvious as it goes left right left right

 

Thanks for the reply - i hope that its an issue that just "disappears" with experience

Boogie

[meepmeepmayer]

Wobble should go away on its own.

The pedal tilt is really strange and should NOT be there, especially the one at speed is completely unheard of. Though I'd definitely try calibrating it via the Gotway app, quite some beeps and switching on/off is involved, not just pressing a button. Wheellog probably didn't do anything. There's a Speedy Feet Youtube video that explains the idea (may differ a little in practice). Also have the wheel NOT tilted sideways while calibrating, in addition to your desired pedal angle. I always recommend doing a really tilted calibration to confirm that your method works, after that you can calibrate to level. I believe the actual calibration process is after you switched it off and on again (not sure, forgot the details), so keep the wheel in position all the time.

Edited June 29, 2018 by meepmeepmayer