King Song 18S

[Meng Yang]

4 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

The open vents on the top doesn't allow water to go in.  They demo'ed pouring water on top of the vents and it didn't go in.

Right. However, I believe moisture in the air corrodes electronic parts. Thus, I'd prefer electronic equipment to be as closed off as possible. In my gaming PC, my graphics card died within a year. I thought it was faulty equipment from a 2nd-tier manufacturer. Then my motherboard died the next year. And its a quality board. Both had corrosion. Even the casing rusted. I didn't wet the system, but I figured it must be because the PC was near the window, so when it rains, the moisture from the air seeps into the PC, corroding the parts. Thus, I'm very weary of open ventilation systems for electronic parts coz it rains often here.

[eddiemoy]

1 minute ago, Meng Yang said:

Right. However, I believe moisture in the air corrodes electronic parts. Thus, I'd prefer electronic equipment to be as closed off as possible. In my gaming PC, my graphics card died within a year. I thought it was faulty equipment from a 2nd-tier manufacturer. Then my motherboard died the next year. And its a quality board. Both had corrosion. Even the casing rusted. I didn't wet the system, but I figured it must be because the PC was near the window, so when it rains, the moisture from the air seeps into the PC, corroding the parts. Thus, I'm very weary of open ventilation systems for electronic parts coz it rains often here.

I'm not sure how you would cool the electronics without any ventilation.  I've not seen any post claiming rusting of any of the circuits from any EUC.  Have you?

[eddiemoy]

57 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I'm in love. 

I could tell instantly when I got on the wheel that I was going to really like it.  It immediately felt completely natural.  I expected it to be a big upgrade, but it has surpassed my expectations.  I feel it looks better in person, too.  I truly couldn't be more pleased. 

It's pouring rain here, but I wasn't going to let that stop me from getting in my first ride.  The stability is almost shocking coming from the V8, which a few of you hinted at in your comments.  I wasn't expecting it to be so much smoother over rough terrain.  I didn't find turning or stopping as hard to adjust to as I had expected.  It all just felt very natural.  It immediately felt so much safer than the V8. 

One of my biggest concerns was the weight of the KS18S and how difficult it will be lugging it up a couple flights of stairs.  It's actually not as bad as I thought. 

I don't see myself wanting to upgrade again for a very long time.  Where before I was worried I might only want to use my V8 after getting the KS18S, after just one ride I'm thinking it could be the other way around.  @KingSong69 has already made a strong case for this wheel in his review and I can only echo his sentiments, as a first impression.  I'm sure I'll develop a more nuanced view as I get more time with it, but it's everything I was hoping for. 

Oops, what I meant to say was now you need to learn how to rid sitting.  Some people can get the hang of riding seated while others take a little time to learn.  It took me a few days to learn how to ride seated.  

[houseofjob]

2 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

Makes me wonder if the upcoming 18L is also having an open ventilation system like the 18S. If so, then the MSuperV3 will still be a better option for those who use them in wet conditions. Tesla fits me well coz it rains here all the time.

Highly doubt it.

The KS18L is just an enlargened KS16 design, and AFAIK, the KS16 does not have, nor need a top facing vent (the KS16 board sits atop the tire, and its heatsink faces down on the wheel as it is fanned by the spin). [KS16S Dis-assembly Video]

The KS18 series, on the otherhand, needs the top vent cover because, while the board sits atop the wheel near the handle, it is enclosed in it's own compartment, isolated from the rest of the unit's components. [KS18 Assembly Video]

[Meng Yang]

11 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I'm not sure how you would cool the electronics without any ventilation.  I've not seen any post claiming rusting of any of the circuits from any EUC.  Have you?

Of course ventilation is needed. Just a matter of method - direct, indirect, top-facing, down-facing, air, water, etc.

Good that there's no complains about rusted circuitry so far.

[Meng Yang]

Anyway, regarding the 18S, this is the advisory from ewheels re rain:

Water Resistance:
The KS18S’s control-board is housed in a separated chamber that’s removed from the Wheel housing; in addition, the electronics have been coated in a protective film covering the surface to keep out moisture.

To dissipate heat generated by the control-board, a fan has been installed underneath the top cover. This cover has a mesh to keep out dust, debris & water; however, under extremely wet conditions, it’s possible for water to find it’s way down into this chamber with the sensitive electronics. It is not recommended to use this Wheel is a downpour. As with all Electric Unicycles, please store in a dry/indoor environment.

https://www.ewheels.com/product/king-song-18s-840wh-1680wh-1500w-motor/

[mezzanine]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

Congrats!  I don't think people know how good the wheel is if they haven't ridden it.  Now you know why the KS18S riders love their wheels so much!   I'm glad you didn't buy the Msuper.  You would have hated it.  Some people can get the riding position immediately, some people need some time.  It took me a couple of days to get the hang of it.  

Enjoy and welcome to the club!

I wouldn't change it at all.  I like the taller form factor and the stability it provides.  If you'd asked me before I'd tried it, my expectation was that at best I would tolerate the taller wheel.  I forgot to reference you in the original post, but your experience with the 18S was a big factor in my decision.  I'm really really grateful that I got the 18S.  I know we're all prone to rationalizing our purchasing decisions and I admit to being under the influence of  "new wheel euphoria" but I am at risk of becoming a King Song fanboy. 

Spending a lot of money on these things based purely on very few reviews is challenging and it makes me especially appreciative to have been able to read your and KS69's thoughts.  I especially appreciated how you didn't pull any punches and were open about your strong feelings.  

I tried sitting briefly and was only able to maintain position for a few seconds before I felt awkward and started to veer.  Regarding the rain issue, I'm not concerned at all.  My first ride was in an absolute downpour and with the seat secured I can't see how it would be a problem. 

[mezzanine]

12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I would not call it biting the bullet, that has a negative connotation, right?

I think you'll be surprised how much better overall this wheel is to ride (pure guess, haven't tried one). I certainly learned to appreciate how easy, mind-controlly and natural the ACM feels compared to the V8. Not to shit on the V8, but I rode it for an hour (so no real experience), and it's so thin and wobbly, it feels like you're balancing something all the time (well you are). Might very well be why you never went for more exploratory rides with your V8. No comparison to a heavy, stable and direction-maintaining wheel on which you just stand relaxedly, and that magically follows your thoughts, and you basically forget it exists (@LanghamP described Gotways like this in another thread, and it seems to be true. My guess is the 18S will be similar.).

So, any new (heavier/bigger battery and more powerful) wheel would probably give you quite improved riding. You simply went for one of the options, good decision to upgrade

Try some softer ride modes once you've got used to the wheel. After starting from the very hard V8, these might feel strange, but I'm loving how my ACM is feathered by this.

It's funny to re-read your comments in the context of having tried out the wheel.  I was cautious about getting too excited about qualities that are hard to grasp (like improved ride quality) without experiencing them.  You don't know if you haven't experienced it, but having already used the V8, I figured they wouldn't as different as they are.  I had an inkling I was underrating the differences, but even then I was way off.  I have to think the V8 is a dramatically harder wheel to learn on as a result of the sensitivity you described. 

And I do think I'm going to do more exploratory riding now.  I find my feet still fatigue at the same rate, but my lower body and core do less work.  It's just less work to ride the bigger wheel.  I'm way more comfortable riding on streets with the KS18S, which is really nice.  It's something @houseofjob mentioned as one of the biggest advantages to the Monster.  I can cruise significantly faster and feel safer than at a slower speed on the V8.  Granted, I know that feeling can be deceiving since speed is biggest risk factor in most accidents. 

It's going to take some time to get used to low speed maneuvering.  I don't find it that bad and the trade off in stability is very much worth it.  I think I underestimated how much design philosophy went into the KS18 shell.  It gets a lot of criticism, but my impression after using it much more positive. 

 

[houseofjob]

Nice!, think you might be hooked like the rest of us now and splurge on multiple variety of wheels 

(FYI, the V8 always felt top heavy to me, especially due to the high profile and battery being located on top... different from the V5 though interestingly)

 

33 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

It's going to take some time to get used to low speed maneuvering.

The slower you ride, the more YOU, the rider, have to physically move, especially on a bigger wheel like the KS18S.

On bigger wheels moving slowly (like amongst the crowd), I employ a lot of:

• s-curve egg-beater-ing,
• upper body pendulum action (while the wheel is relatively at a crawl),
• ... and a bunch of heel-toe pivot action (right heel up - left toe up, then right toe up - left heel up, etc.). 

Also, on a tall wheel like the KS18S or Monster, with seats mounted, you can simply stiff-arm the seat pad to dismount the wheel, as effectively an additional brake, or when you need to walk through tight spaces in slow-moving traffic (crowded sidewalks, passing between bumper-to-bumper cars).

I'll typically go from riding, to dismount walking my wheel through a tight passage, then right quickly back to stiff-arm re-mounting the wheel and speeding off again, all while my arm is leaning against and leveraging the seat.

 

33 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I think I underestimated how much design philosophy went into the KS18 shell.

My KS18 shell has taken plenty of beating and dropping; zero shell quality issues.

I had a flat tire and because one of my pedal screws was stripped, no amount of pulling could free the shell (all other screws removed). I eventually had to resort to using my soldering iron to melt the plastic around the stripped screw so that I could finally de-shell my KS18.

On that note, if you ever experience some give to the pedals (not the "soft mode" setting), especially after multiple drops & use, I'd recommend tightening up the 4 hex screws (2 on each side) that secure the pedal arms to the axles.

[mezzanine]

@houseofjob I realized quickly that I was going to have to make a very deliberate and conscious effort to avoid owning three or four wheels a year from now.  My plan is to wait for at least a year and accept the inevitable envy I'll experience as soon as the first reviews of the upcoming releases start trickling out. 

I still have such narrow experience only having tried two wheels.  I have new appreciation for the benefits of having experience with a broad range of wheels considering I underestimated how different the V8 and KS18S would be.  I think it was our discussion of the Monster that sparked my eventual decision to get the KS18S.  I'll send you my paypal via PM and trust you will take responsibility for your actions. 

Until then, I hadn't considered a much bigger wheel and as a result I had a blindspot for the advantages a wheel that big offers.  I had dismissed the Monster without consideration because I viewed it's size as impractical.  A lot of the things I liked about the Monster I was able to also find in the KS18S, obviously the seat being the big one.  I still imagine the Monster is the better seated EUC.  

Your ability to articulate riding technique is excellent.  If I were King Song or Gotway, I would hire you to write riding manuals or better yet provide video instruction.  You provide a lot of detail on seated riding in @eddiemoy 's thread and I hate to think it could get lost there.  It really should be stickied somewhere.  I was certainly thinking of what I could remember of your advise when I made my brief attempt to sit earlier.  It's funny but I think the idea of having to learn to ride sitting brings me a feeling of nostalgia about learning to ride.  A big part of the appeal of seated riding for me was simply the need to learn something new. 

 

 

[houseofjob]

@mezzanine Ha, thanks! Maybe you can teach me now when you become an expert riding seated on the KS18S! 

(I've actually never ridden my KS18A seated, as it's been on the sidelines due to what I think is a motor issue particular to my unit.... and it was my 2nd wheel ever and I wasn't comfortable riding seated at the time) 

 

2 hours ago, mezzanine said:

I'll send you my paypal via PM and trust you will take responsibility for your actions. 

[LanghamP]

The Inmotion V8 may not be as unstable as you think. I would love to have one if I didn't already have another 16 incher.

Skip to 5:00 and look how smooth and stable Ian rides, and so try to emulate his riding position and riding style.

 

[houseofjob]

11 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

The Inmotion V8 may not be as unstable as you think. I would love to have one if I didn't already have another 16 incher.

Skip to 5:00 and look how smooth and stable Ian rides, and so try to emulate his riding position and riding style.

I don't think it's about the V8 being unstable. It's more about how much one feels more "stable" to ride than the other.

I can say IMHO having owned both (still own the KS18), that the KS18 series definitely feels more "stable", especially considering the wider 2.5" width tire, as well as the batteries being located towards the bottom of the unit down each leg side (the V8 battery is located atop the wheel), as well as the overall heavier weight of the KS18 overall.

But comparing the two is a bit unfair though, as they are built for completely different purposes: the V8 for lightness, portability, and greater agility; and the KS18 for cruising and comfort.

[LanghamP]

If it helps, as this is somewhat comparable, my KS16s feels unstable, twitchy, and I'll flail my arms about for about two minutes after changing from my msuper.

I believe the culprit to the V8's and the V5's instability is the height of the pedal from the tire's contact patch. This can be demonstrated easily by taking, say a long block of wood, griping it firmly on the bottom but pinching it lightly higher up, and wiggling it. The lower you pinch it the slower and harder it is to waggle back and forth.

By the same token, you can see that having batteries quite always from the center of the wheel, say very high on top, would make the wheel more and not less stable. Since the contact patch moves opposite and around the center of gravity, it follows wheels with mass on their edges are slower to rotate and more stable.

[houseofjob]

Um, agree to disagree.

[Meng Yang]

For me, V8 at 30 kph is about as stable as Tesla at 38 kph. Tesla at 50 kph is less stable than those mentioned before.

[mezzanine]

I had a misconception before about how the increased stability of a bigger wheel would increase safety.  I had thought that it was only because the big wheel allows you to go over bigger bumps without losing control, which is true, but more than that it's the ability to shift your attention from the ground directly in front of you to what's happening around you.  I had thought I wouldn't bother with using the KS18S for short trips when I have the V8, but the improved riding comfort makes the proposition of using the KS appealing because it's less work to ride it. 

A smaller reason I liked the KS over the MSuper is that the KS has the longer, rounder handle at the top for carrying.  I'm able to carry it with both hands in front of me when I'm going down the stairs in my apartment building.  I haven't tried carrying it up holding it two-handed and am doubtful it will work as well.  I'm typically holding something in my hands when I arrive home and have to carry it up one-handed.

It's not that bad to maneuver the 18S indoors with it's height even though it lacks a trolley.  It isn't pleasant like with the V8, but it's doable.  I'm already anxiously awaiting the trolley I ordered, though it won't be here for another month. 

I haven't yet got back on the V8 to experience the contrast.  I'm going to be very careful when I do and keep my speed way down.  I've been surprised at the difference in sensation changing my shoes causes on the V8; I'm guessing the difference from having adapted to the 18S will be similarly alien.  

  It's funny how I'd unconsciously started to tune out the dramatic responses riding a wheel elicits in onlookers.  Being on the new wheel, I think I wanted to show off without realizing it and was watching people's reactions more closely.  I still managed to be surprised by the reactions.  At first I tried rationalizing it by telling myself that it was because I was riding in a different section of town. 

I'm not a big fan of the auto-light sensor that turns the head/tail lights on/off based on light level.  It seems to turn the headlight on and off sporadically on my unit. 

I'm also finding the charging non-intuitive in that I can charge it for a couple of hours and it is still on the same battery level.  I know it's a much bigger battery, but it doesn't really make sense to me.  I'd also say it uses battery faster that I expected, although not so much so that I'm concerned that there could be an issue.   

I expected there to some sort of new-wheel comfort adjustment where I would experience some pain as I got used to the differences.  None at all.  I can just about ride with neither leg touching the housing and simply standing on the pedals.  

[US69]

3 minutes ago, mezzanine said:

I'm not a big fan of the auto-light sensor that turns the head/tail lights on/off based on light level.  It seems to turn the headlight on and off sporadically on my unit. 

Just turn the "Auto" Setting off ;-)

 

[US69]

12 hours ago, houseofjob said:

I can say IMHO having owned both (still own the KS18),

In your signature it says the KS18 is sold?

btw.: Impressive wheel experience and ownership :-) Very nice!

[houseofjob]

8 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

In your signature it says the KS18 is sold?

Ah good catch!

I had moved it over there forgetting it said "sold" not "former", contemplating just abandoning my reclamation project, but all this KS18 talk has made me want to make a final attempt to convert into a KS18AY, as I have the board for it, just not the motor.

 

8 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

btw.: Impressive wheel experience and ownership :-) Very nice!

Thanks!

[US69]

3 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

to convert into a KS18AY, as I have the board for it, just not the motor.

That's a great idea!!! Do that....the 18AY is very near to the 18S...you just Need the correct Motor then :-)

 

Whats the Problem with your GT16?

[houseofjob]

8 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Whats the Problem with your GT16?

Ah, good catch too! That's a whole write up I'm meaning to do soon. Not great news unfortunately, but will post when I get the chance.

[mezzanine]

I'm observing what might be a battery issue or possibly a charge indicator issue.  I charged last night for a couple of hours and brought the charge from around 60% to 80% and went out for a 4km round trip ride and it's showing my charge level back down to 60%.  That seems like a lot of lost charge for a short trip.  I also noticed a couple nights ago that I charged it for a couple of hours and the charge display didn't change.  I might try setting up the app to see what it shows. 

[US69]

1 hour ago, mezzanine said:

I'm observing what might be a battery issue or possibly a charge indicator issue.  I charged last night for a couple of hours and brought the charge from around 60% to 80% and went out for a 4km round trip ride and it's showing my charge level back down to 60%.  That seems like a lot of lost charge for a short trip.  I also noticed a couple nights ago that I charged it for a couple of hours and the charge display didn't change.  I might try setting up the app to see what it shows. 

@mezzanine Nope, that might be totally normal...when you just go for the charge level on the EUC, which is all but not exact! As it only goes in 20% values....so you will never see 5,7 or 9 bars!

At least you have to check with an app that is able to show one percentage steps, do you have android or apple?

 

It might be for example you brought the wheel just slightly over the edge to show 8 bars...and after this ride it falls back again. Also hills and heavy acceleration might bring your battery further down, and it recovers half an hour later.

Best advice: buy a charge doctor and with that you can check voltage of the wheel and the amount of watthpur you pump in.

BTw. with the standard charger...for every hour you insert only 120wh....Thats is just about 7%!! more load...so nearly nothing on a 1680wh wheel. Also that means that 3hours charging might not even bring the bars from 6 to 8 :-)

[US69]

@mezzanine

btw.: If you have specific Ks18s questions whatsoever, you can always PM me! No prob!