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My Mten3 Broke and What I'm Doing About it


Marty Backe

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I still love my Mten3 and can't wait to get it up and running again. @Jason McNeil is helping me acquire a new control board so I may be back in business within a couple of weeks :)

 

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31 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

@Jason McNeil is helping me acquire a new control board so I may be back in business within a couple of weeks :)

We should be able to do better than that, there's a 75% chance of being up & running in the next 7-10 days. But your thanks should go out to Linnea, she's been simply an outstanding at coordinating everything over at GW. :innocent1:

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Bummer!  When I watched your video about applying the handlebar wrap, I was wondering how long before you would be removing it.  Sorry, didn't mean to jinx you.  :crying:  I hope you have that little wheel back online pronto.  If you feel so moved, a video of the reassembly would be really helpful.  Your "I wonder if I can put this thing back together" remark definitely resonated with me.  

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36 minutes ago, radial said:

Bummer!  When I watched your video about applying the handlebar wrap, I was wondering how long before you would be removing it.  Sorry, didn't mean to jinx you.  :crying:  I hope you have that little wheel back online pronto.  If you feel so moved, a video of the reassembly would be really helpful.  Your "I wonder if I can put this thing back together" remark definitely resonated with me.  

Yeah, thanks :furious: ;)

If I get lost come reassembly time, I'm calling you (but maybe yours is still in pieces waiting for a tube?).

I will video the fix.

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I bought grip tape because of @Marty Backe video because it's an excellent idea.

Even better, don't go through turn styles (?), wouldn't have thought that.

If I'm sitting on a low brick wall, then put my feet on the wheel and stand up and go, do you think the wheel which is straining against the brick wall can pop like @Marty Backe wheel? If so, how long would straining against a brick before the wheel popped?

 

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31 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I bought grip tape because of @Marty Backe video because it's an excellent idea.

Even better, don't go through turn styles (?), wouldn't have thought that.

If I'm sitting on a low brick wall, then put my feet on the wheel and stand up and go, do you think the wheel which is straining against the brick wall can pop like @Marty Backe wheel? If so, how long would straining against a brick before the wheel popped?

 

Since you're not using your MSuper, do you want to run through a few scenarios and see which one causes the board to pop :)

I think it's somewhat of a mystery as to what the conditions have to be. There's probably a bit of bad luck involved :(

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Bummer:( about your wheel but at least you got @Jason McNeil working for you so you'll be up and running shortly.He recently sent me a replacement board for the "World Famous ACM2040" and that along with the 2.5inch tire mod makes it "Cogswell Ready" and waiting for a "rematch".:D The thing I'm curious about, is that your Mten didn't seem like a typical mosfet failure case,such as non free wheelspin combined with power button beep without balance power,which makes me think it's perhaps a power input problem.Especially since you found no visual evidence of a mosfet burnout during your inspection.Did you ever check the voltage output from the batteries? I would hate to see you change to board only to find out that the problem is in the batteries.;)

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2 hours ago, radial said:

Bummer!  When I watched your video about applying the handlebar wrap, I was wondering how long before you would be removing it.  Sorry, didn't mean to jinx you.  :crying:  I hope you have that little wheel back online pronto.  If you feel so moved, a video of the reassembly would be really helpful.  Your "I wonder if I can put this thing back together" remark definitely resonated with me.  

I wouldn't worry about @Marty Backe's reassembly skills,lately he seems to have gotten lots of practice.There was a time when he had a special knack of knowing when to sell a wheel right before a failure so the buyer  would have to deal with the problem.However,I sense his skills are waining in that area.:D

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19 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Not (really) trying to derail the thread but, "How many of your wheels haven't you broken?"

Just my ACM. I burned it up when doing a trial run for the group ride that I was going to host for you. Took it up a very steep and long hill. Remember now :)

@Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" is just having some fun at my expense because two of the wheels that I sold later failed. A third wheel that I sold didn't exactly fail, but the tire burst.

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48 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

looks like the dc converter then has giving up then...

If a mosfet would have burned, you should see that.

Is that a known failure mode for my situation?

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1 hour ago, Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" said:

Bummer:( about your wheel but at least you got @Jason McNeil working for you so you'll be up and running shortly.He recently sent me a replacement board for the "World Famous ACM2040" and that along with the 2.5inch tire mod makes it "Cogswell Ready" and waiting for a "rematch".:D The thing I'm curious about, is that your Mten didn't seem like a typical mosfet failure case,such as non free wheelspin combined with power button beep without balance power,which makes me think it's perhaps a power input problem.Especially since you found no visual evidence of a mosfet burnout during your inspection.Did you ever check the voltage output from the batteries? I would hate to see you change to board only to find out that the problem is in the batteries.;)

No, I didn't check the battery voltage. I'll check it, but it seems unlikely that the battery module would failed right at that moment.

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2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Is that a known failure mode for my situation?

Not especially for your situation...but especially for a Gotway ;-) Dc converter directly comes after mosfet failure (source: Zlymex reports)

The fact that your wheel was still moving, that there is no beep when trying to power on, it is not possible a mosfet has blown, wheel would be stuck. Imho it clearly directs to the dc converter....(afaik.... but dont nail me on this, the yellow brick on the board).

Whatever: New board needed...

Perhaps @zlymex can jump in

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11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

just having some fun at my expense because two of the wheels that I sold later failed. A third wheel that I sold didn't exactly fail, but the tire burst.

Really? Some more infos about the failures?...

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8 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Not especially for your situation...but especially for a Gotway ;-) Dc converter directly comes after mosfet failure (source: Zlymex reports)

The fact that your wheel was still moving, that there is no beep when trying to power on, it is not possible a mosfet has blown, wheel would be stuck. Imho it clearly directs to the dc converter....(afaik.... but dont nail me on this, the yellow brick on the board).

Whatever: New board needed...

Perhaps @zlymex can jump in

Seems reasonable, the DC Converter. Wonder why that fails instead of a MOSFET.

I assume that it's possible for a MOSFET to fail 'open' instead of 'shorted'. But maybe that's never been the case?

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6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Really? Some more infos about the failures?...

I sold @Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" my first ACM. Months later during a mountain ride, it failed while we were going up a steep hill. The crappy soldering at the motor connector failed. @Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" actually repaired it while we waited. Opened the wheel, cut off the connector and twisted the wires together. Then we continued the group ride :thumbup:

I sold my original MSuper V3 to @HeavyGoing. Later, when he was going up a steep hill the crappy soldering at the motor connector failed. I haven't heard from him, but he was going to re-solder it, so I suppose that wheel has been working fine.

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So sorry for your temporary loss Marty.

There have been quite a few similar failures in the past on the forums when wheels have stopped on high kerbs or up against walls. They definitely suffer if held still when trying to turn.

I've blown mosfets on 3 boards now, twice on my KS 14" and once on my Gotway mcm.

Two of them had quite dark overheating marks around the legs of one of the mosfets but the third one was only very slightly darkened and only visible when viewed through the phone magnifier.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

sold @Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" my first ACM. Months later during a mountain ride, it failed while we were going up a steep hill. The crappy soldering at the motor connector failed. @Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" actually repaired it while we waited. Opened the wheel, cut off the connector and twisted the wires together. Then we continued the group ride :thumbup:

I sold my original MSuper V3 to @HeavyGoing. Later, when he was going up a steep hill the crappy soldering at the motor connector failed. I haven't heard from him, but he was going to re-solder it, so I suppose that wheel has been working fine.

WOW...that-s heavy ...and honest...that means that 3 of 4 of your 2 ACM and 2 Msuper had wire/soldier failures ....The one MSuper that didn't had soldier issures, instead had a Firmware issue, your Monster had Nut Problems, your Mten3 blowed a converter or whatever....

 

That Means each of your GW wheels has failed. All! Or did i miss one?

 

Sometimes i ask myself how you still can defend Gotway.... ;-)

 

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Let's just say that Marty collected all known Gotway failure options, like with those collectible sticker magazines. Those old, unsufficient motor connectors; the oscillation problem during the few weeks it happened; the too thin wiring; and now a standard broken board from a current spike due to locking the tire (with the exception that not a mosfet, but some other part blew). So far, so unspectacular.

This just shows his engagement and sacrifices towards the EUC community:) or might be Karma for constantly mentioning the good California weather while other people stare at rain, wind and snow. Not sure what the prize is, now at completion of the "collection":P

--

I quite like how the mten3 is built, the solid battery casing is a nice surprise. Beeper is at the outside of the casing, not somewhere in the middle. No too short cables crammed into some corner. Etc. - seems neat!

But how the board is put on the heatsink - this implies they bend the mosfet legs of every single board during assembly!:shock2: Please tell me this isn't so with every other 2-layer-mosfet board on a heatsink plate!

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5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

WOW...that-s heavy ...and honest...that means that 3 of 4 of your 2 ACM and 2 Msuper had wire/soldier failures ....The one MSuper that didn't had soldier issures, instead had a Firmware issue, your Monster had Nut Problems, your Mten3 blowed a converter or whatever....

 

That Means each of your GW wheels has failed. All! Or did i miss one?

 

Sometimes i ask myself how you still can defend Gotway.... ;-)

 

You're depressing me @KingSong69 :crying:

It's not quite that bad. Out of the 7 Gotway wheels, one ACM never had a failure. A burst tube from hitting a large rock with low tire pressure is not a Gotway failure. So there! Only 6 of the wheels have had problems.

Since the Monster axle situation isn't horrible yet I have not replaced the shims, but @Jason McNeil has outfitted me with new ones. So I'm set when I want to take the plunge.

The ACM & MSuper with failed motor connectors may never have failed with me because both 'new' owners were much heavier :)

My ACM melted wiring failure only occurred because I tackled an extremely long and steep hill.

The Mten3 only failed because I wedged it in a turnstile (don't do that BTW).

So really, only the one MSuper with the bad firmware can be said to truly be a bad wheel. And that was easily fixed.

Gotway isn't that bad :whistling:

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7 hours ago, Gimlet said:

So sorry for your temporary loss Marty.

There have been quite a few similar failures in the past on the forums when wheels have stopped on high kerbs or up against walls. They definitely suffer if held still when trying to turn.

I've blown mosfets on 3 boards now, twice on my KS 14" and once on my Gotway mcm.

Two of them had quite dark overheating marks around the legs of one of the mosfets but the third one was only very slightly darkened and only visible when viewed through the phone magnifier.

 

30 minutes ago, dmethvin said:

I had my Firewheel blow a DC converter as well, you can see the photo here. it was actually pretty hard to see that burned trace near the S81B chip without a very strong light on it. 

Thanks guys. I'm going to take a magnifier and do a closer study of the board to see if I can find any evidence of small burn marks. Just for kicks.

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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Let's just say that Marty collected all known Gotway failure options, like with those collectible sticker magazines. Those old, unsufficient motor connectors; the oscillation problem during the few weeks it happened; the too thin wiring; and now a standard broken board from a current spike due to locking the tire (with the exception that not a mosfet, but some other part blew). So far, so unspectacular.

This just shows his engagement and sacrifices towards the EUC community:) or might be Karma for constantly mentioning the good California weather while other people stare at rain, wind and snow. Not sure what the prize is, now at completion of the "collection":P

--

I quite like how the mten3 is built, the solid battery casing is a nice surprise. Beeper is at the outside of the casing, not somewhere in the middle. No too short cables crammed into some corner. Etc. - seems neat!

But how the board is put on the heatsink - this implies they bend the mosfet legs of every single board during assembly!:shock2: Please tell me this isn't so with every other 2-layer-mosfet board on a heatsink plate!

:D

I do agree that in general the Mten3 is nicely constructed, including the battery module (which I thought was cool). I was only slightly complaining because it was somewhat of a puzzle to take apart but that's necessitated by the ultra small form factor.

I still hope for the day that they stop spreading that silicon stuff over everything.

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