mezzanine Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I'll be surprised if Gotway implements any suggested changes. I'd be tempted to get in touch with the Gotway sellers in France and Korea to see if it's possible to put pressure on Gotway, collectively. When it's individual sellers trying to negotiate improvements, the power is still on Gotway's side. The problem is that it would require each of the sellers to be prepared to boycott Gotway if their collective demands aren't met, and I doubt there would be that kind of solidarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 And yet the Chinese continue to advance EUC technology beyond all others, and at an incredibly rapid rate, and at a fairly affordable rate. I mean, a good wheel is about as expensive as a good bicycle. It's amazing how much technological progress can be made, and cheaply too, when there's basically no regulation involved, although there might be the little matter of collecting roadkill... "We shall heal our wounds, collect our dead and continue fighting." --Mao Zedong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 47 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Fuses are nice, but this could be done in software with much more precision (aka X Ampere for Y seconds is ok) and no compromises. I only see fuses as another cut-out-critical part that can fail in some unexpected way (see what Gotway said, I actually agree with what they said their experience produced) and can too easily blow when it should not or not blow when it should. Thank you. I've been saying this since I started. It's not simple and takes some engineering, but it should be possible to create a software based fuse. Fuses are still used in various devices because they don't have a microcontroller monitoring voltages and currents. But they do have that capability within the wheel. Just takes engineering. That being said, if they aren't going to put the energy into an engineered solution, at least put a fuse in there that will blow before the battery or MOSFETs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoDrift Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Yes, yes, yes of course. Ideal Tesla. 1 of 3 in the Russian Federation - burned.In my opinion, the GotWay must urgently close and cease to issue a marriage in such quantity. They do not respect either the rider or the dealer. http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=48869.msg1221251#msg1221251 [spoiler=the best quality in the world is GotWay] [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I think Gotway does seem to listen to consumer suggestions as they likely want to improve their wheels to help gain reliability. Just look at all the revisions that the ACM's went through (crimped connectors, new insulators over the connectors, insulated motor wiring, larger axle) and how they were passed onto the Telsa. They are getting there with each improvement, but it's a slow process. It's a matter of putting more money into R&D I think. @EcoDrift - what conditions caused that control board to explode/melt? That MOSFET leg and plastic casing looks deep fried along with some of those connectors that look melted over a campfire. Maybe steep hill climbing/prolonged pendulums/dip in the lake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Holy Mother of God! I thought i'd bought the wrong "new 16" wheel" when I ponied up for a kS16s I didn't really know much about the Tesla. I DO NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoDrift Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: @EcoDrift - what conditions caused that control board to explode/melt? That MOSFET leg and plastic casing looks deep fried along with some of those connectors that look melted over a campfire. Maybe steep hill climbing/prolonged pendulums/dip in the lake? Just a beginner and 3 days of trying to learn how to ride. Nothing Unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Just to calm everybody down: My Tesla (and Martys also) is running without any probs! i am at about 180km and that in winter, with mud and the wheel stucked in mud, and rain and and and....running flawless (until now ;-) ) Who knows me: It is clear i am no Gotway fanboy...i hate their poor quality management and the poor communications about some faults. But i also have to say...it gets a bit better! For example they immediately changed the sidepads when there was a problem with punched motor cable. They also change the rubber pads...i have seen better, thicker motor wires, better connectors, a thicker axle and some other quality improvements! Is there still room for improvement? Sure, a ton of! But there is no need to get hysteric about 1-2 cutouts or burned boards....EUC driving in general is dangerous! You can have a whatsoever brand board or battery failure on every! wheel out there....you will faceplant or something will be destroyed. Your mosfet burns? In worst case you have a real, real bad short because of the mosfet and your board looks like that one...burned up and shorted away! So, Do i mean that these faults can be kind of „downplayed“? nope...but its much to early to to blame/bash the Tesla/GW in general. Its just that in the moment, the Tesla is that „hot shit“...where everybody looks on it. So its kinda normal there are failure reports,also! And on this reports is the focus....if you just look on the French board, there are much more positive reports and tests of the Tesla, and all people i know personally...they are quite happy with their new wheel.....and are (at least i guess that) the silent majority :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveCut Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I think Gotway problems are in firmware. IMO In some cases it messing up MOSFET's opening phases and that leads to short circuit burn. We saw alot of this. But still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, WaveCut said: I think Gotway problems are in firmware. IMO In some cases it messing up MOSFET's opening phases and that leads to short circuit burn. We saw alot of this. But still. How did your Rockwheel GR16 die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 3 hours ago, EcoDrift said: Yes, yes, yes of course. Ideal Tesla. 1 of 3 in the Russian Federation - burned.In my opinion, the GotWay must urgently close and cease to issue a marriage in such quantity. They do not respect either the rider or the dealer. http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=48869.msg1221251#msg1221251 [spoiler=the best quality in the world is GotWay] [/spoiler] Could you please provide some context to all of these pictures. From personal experience I would be surprised if this is not a consequence of extreme riding conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Apparently the pics are from a new rider with only a few days experience. That doesn't explain what happened, though. It would help to get more information about what happened leading up to the failure. It seems strange that someone could cause all that heat damage without extreme riding. I kinda wonder if there's more to the story than what the rider of the wheel is revealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I find when people are returning things for warranty purposes, it's always been "gently" ridden or I only used it once... Ever watch "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" with the Ferrari scene? I wonder if there are a few details that are missing like maybe the rider was 250 pounds trying to ride in the rain? Difficult to say. It certainly could be a defective board too or wiring short somewhere. Looks like one of the motor wires melted the solder disconnecting it from the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Valley Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 6 hours ago, mezzanine said: Apparently the pics are from a new rider with only a few days experience. That doesn't explain what happened, though. It would help to get more information about what happened leading up to the failure. It seems strange that someone could cause all that heat damage without extreme riding. I kinda wonder if there's more to the story than what the rider of the wheel is revealing. There most definetely is, and since this was a beginner, this can also be the reason why the full story is not revealed, beginners usually makes the "ohno" mistakes. I Would not be suprised if there was for example a situation like this behind the burned tesla: "aw man im tired of not being able to balance more than 10 met..HEY i wonder if i can burn rubber if i push against the wall while applying force to the wheel?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoDrift Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I regularly get tired of explaining in the Russian forum - what's the difference why the wheel broke? This is the marriage of the manufacturer. If it's a lot - the manufacturer sucks. I honestly sold both RockWheel and two years of GotWay, but I was very tired of the delirium that occurs with the GotWay. Even riders in the Russian Federation already understand that GotWay makes a disgusting quality. You, the majority, living in a civilized Europe or America - continue to argue with the fact that it will do so. No, it will not. The manufacturer must be responsible for its quality. His marriage and low quality can not be covered - "but he makes fast wheels." So what's the difference how a beginner "burned" the tester? That's for me personally no. This is the marriage of the manufacturer. I am the exclusive distributor of Inmotion and Kingsong since the summer of 2016, but I continued to sell GotWay so that the riders had a choice. And regularly argued with Inmotion and kingsong because of this. They forced me to refuse, but I resisted and sold. But what I was shown sales in 2017 - I was shocked. Here are the statistics. So do not do business. This is a complete absurdity. 33%. Claims, refunds, a blow to my reputation. I do not care about the reputation of the GotWay. But almost every breakdown in the Russian Federation was brought back to my reputation as a seller. You can try as much as you want to protect a low quality, but it will not get any better from it, unfortunately. Next, I drop out of the discussion, since you are not my sales market and convince you of the obvious to me is not very interesting. Also, my English is not so good as to communicate with you on equal terms and give arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 We're not disputing that Gotway wheels have had a problematic history across its models. We understand that as a dealer it's no picnic having to be the middle man between Gotway and the customer. It's just that when we see a horribly damaged wheel we wonder whether there were some details that the customer may not have disclosed. Any wheel can blow up under the right circumstances. Some are due to manufacturer defects for sure and poor quality control while others might be due to customer fault. Thanks for sharing the photos. No one's disputing your poor experience dealing with Gotway, and we respect your opinion about their products. It's still good that people have some choices in the EUC market. Gotway might never reach the quality and reliability level of King Song, but then again we hope they will someday. For now users buying Gotway need to accept the risks associated with this brand in order to enjoy the features and remember to not blame dealers for issues that develop. People risk averse need to settle for more reliable wheels and accept that they may not be quite as fast or long range. Dealers not willing to deal with problematic Gotway wheels should refuse to sell them or continue to pressure Gotway to improve as they have more clout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedig Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 idk about you guys but 3 days in I was still beating the crap out of the wheel and to some extent myself just getting to the point where I could cruse around long enough for my feet to start to hurt from trying to wrap my toes around the pedals twice. it wasn't a 2k watt tesla either. it was an 800w 11mph ips. I managed to burn the board in it in about a week. amazon replaced it for me. (yeah, i got my first euc from amazon after seeing a friend cruising around on one) btw, i have about 120 km on my new tesla and it rides beautifully. it's strong and quick and handles easily. it's quickly becoming my go to wheel, tho i wish default led mode was bubble gum machine off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoinPostal Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 11/9/2017 at 7:13 PM, Marty Backe said: I have to come to the defense of Gotway. Their wheels do not have a tendency to cut-out. Here's the deal. Gotway makes the highest performing wheels out there and their philosophy is to give total control to the owner of the wheel. KingSong locks the high speed capability until you have ridden X miles. Gotway doesn't. KingSong maintains tilt-back, Gotway allows you to turn it off. Etc., etc. You can configure a Gotway wheel to be just as safe if not safer than a KingSong wheel. Turn on the alarms. Don't disable the tilt-back and set it to a reasonable speed (35 km/h). And in this scenario I think Gotway wheels can be safer than KingSong because they can have more power reserve than KingSong. The reason you see more reports of cut-outs on Gotway wheels is because there are a lot of thrill seekers out there who want to see how fast they can go, so they turn off all the safety features and push the wheel to the limit. I guarantee you that if you configured the Tesla to have the same limits as the KS16 you would never have a cutout. But if you want to go a bit faster and take the risk, Gotway lets you. KingSong doesn't. I'll pick freedom and choice (Gotway) most days Just don’t bonk it against anything, cause it will fry instantly.. oh and as Marty showed us, don’t climb long steep hills. Other than that, Gotway is great! (Mostly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, GoinPostal said: Just don’t bonk it against anything, cause it will fry instantly.. oh and as Marty showed us, don’t climb long steep hills. Other than that, Gotway is great! (Mostly) Exactly! Gotway rules the wheel kingdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoDrift Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: We're not disputing that Gotway wheels have had a problematic history across its models. We understand that as a dealer it's no picnic having to be the middle man between Gotway and the customer. It's just that when we see a horribly damaged wheel we wonder whether there were some details that the customer may not have disclosed. Any wheel can blow up under the right circumstances. Some are due to manufacturer defects for sure and poor quality control while others might be due to customer fault. Thanks for sharing the photos. No one's disputing your poor experience dealing with Gotway, and we respect your opinion about their products. It's still good that people have some choices in the EUC market. Gotway might never reach the quality and reliability level of King Song, but then again we hope they will someday. For now users buying Gotway need to accept the risks associated with this brand in order to enjoy the features and remember to not blame dealers for issues that develop. People risk averse need to settle for more reliable wheels and accept that they may not be quite as fast or long range. Dealers not willing to deal with problematic Gotway wheels should refuse to sell them or continue to pressure Gotway to improve as they have more clout. Unfortunately, in my experience, people who bought from me GotWay very often just look at the characteristics and buy, then when it breaks - they are with big claims. During the purchase managers explain everything to him and talk about quality, but customers consider themselves smarter than others and buy by characteristics. And then they blame the dealer. Here it is classics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Don't victim-blame the buyers. If a noob can manage to fry the wheel (and I don't assume they do crazy jackass tests with their new 1000+ moneys device just to see what happens), then the wheel should not have fried. Same for selling. If you sell a wheel, it has to work. You can't blame the buyers for buying something you sell, even if you warn them about something you sell. How ridiculous is that? Or does the store page say "not usable for what we say it is good for"? I don't expect it to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Also remember we are dealing with small numbers of customers here in total so it may be hard to see how big the reliability problem really is. Let's imagine that 20 percent of all Teslas fail and require service or replacement. That's a huge number but "just" 1 out of 5, meaning there could still be 4 out of 5 happy Tesla users posting in this forum who are baffled about why the others complain and guessing they may have done something dumb while riding. It's even worse for a dealer looking at this failure rate. Now instead of simple transactions where you sell wheels and take your meager profit, you're having to argue with Gotway to get replacement parts, spending a lot of time on customer service, and potentially taking a loss when Gotway refuses to replace parts but you still do the repairs to protect your company's reputation. That sounds like the situation EcoDrift may be in. Anyway, that failure rate is just a guess and undoubtedly not the real number (it could be lower--or higher). Just like plane crashes, any EUC crash is usually a combination of several factors including operator error, mechanical failure, road conditions, speed, software, battery level, etc. For any crash or failure we should want to find out as many details as possible and not write them off before we know the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Don't victim-blame the buyers. If a noob can manage to fry the wheel (and I don't assume they do crazy jackass tests with their new 1000+ moneys device just to see what happens), then the wheel should not have fried. As a more experienced rider looking back, I'm not so sure buying a really good first wheel is an optimal path because there are many times I could have fried my wheel but didn't. I simply didn't know better, and have great difficulty just staying on my wheel to be much concerned about anything else. Buy the S1, bash it up learning, and then buy a proper wheel. The $300 is training cost, with the bonus that you keep the wheel. Much better than learning on a KS14/16/Tesla, not saying they pop easily but instead the cost of mistakes is 4x as great. Damn, I'm kicking myself for not impulse buying. Always listen to your gut, it's hardly ever wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveCut Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 14 hours ago, EcoDrift said: marriage read "marriage" in quoted message as "initially failed product" - automatic translation problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveCut Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 11/22/2017 at 11:31 PM, Smoother said: How did your Rockwheel GR16 die? In worst way. Hard power cutoff with following faceplant, broken nose, damaged hand, ruined clothes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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