Gotway Tesla vs KS16S?

[guyr]

Was planning to upgrade to KS16S (£1200) but Gotway Tesla seems to offer an extra 10mph+ and is ~£920 ($1200) from AliExpress. 

My main concern is Gotway's tendency to cut out, versus KingSong's track record of never cutting out. 

I'd rather not die. But the Tesla is newer, so much more powerful, and cheaper.

I'll mostly be using it to commute to work and around and about daily, likely wearing a helmet but not really wanting to kit up in full safety gear multiple times per day. 

Any thoughts on the matter? Is the Gotway Tesla as safe as the KS16S? 

[Disclaimer: I'm still fairly new to EUC's so sorry if this is a really basic/wrong/annoying question]

Edited November 9, 2017 by guyr

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Unfortunately the track record for the GW Tesla isn't out yet so long term reliability just isn't there to comment on.  People seem to be having good success with the KS16S in general except for some bucking and balance issues along with trolley handle locking problems.  With the Tesla there have been a few reports of DOA units so the jury is still out.  At this point in time, if you are risk averse and like the feature set on the KS16S, I'd say KingSong for the win.  With a new model EUC it's anyone's guess as to whether it's a winner or not.  There have been some visible improvements though.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, guyr said:

Was planning to upgrade to KS16S (£1200) but Gotway Tesla seems to offer an extra 10mph+ and is ~£920 ($1200) from AliExpress. 

My main concern is Gotway's tendency to cut out, versus KingSong's track record of never cutting out. 

I'd rather not die. But the Tesla is newer, so much more powerful, and cheaper.

I'll mostly be using it to commute to work and around and about daily, likely wearing a helmet but not really wanting to kit up in full safety gear multiple times per day. 

Any thoughts on the matter? Is the Gotway Tesla as safe as the KS16S? 

[Disclaimer: I'm still fairly new to EUC's so sorry if this is a really basic/wrong/annoying question]

I have to come to the defense of Gotway. Their wheels do not have a tendency to cut-out.

Here's the deal. Gotway makes the highest performing wheels out there and their philosophy is to give total control to the owner of the wheel. KingSong locks the high speed capability until you have ridden X miles. Gotway doesn't. KingSong maintains tilt-back, Gotway allows you to turn it off. Etc., etc.

You can configure a Gotway wheel to be just as safe if not safer than a KingSong wheel. Turn on the alarms. Don't disable the tilt-back and set it to a reasonable speed (35 km/h). And in this scenario I think Gotway wheels can be safer than KingSong because they can have more power reserve than KingSong.

The reason you see more reports of cut-outs on Gotway wheels is because there are a lot of thrill seekers out there who want to see how fast they can go, so they turn off all the safety features and push the wheel to the limit.

I guarantee you that if you configured the Tesla to have the same limits as the KS16 you would never have a cutout. But if you want to go a bit faster and take the risk, Gotway lets you. KingSong doesn't.

I'll pick freedom and choice (Gotway) most days 

[Meng Yang]

Like the KS-16S, V8 cutout isn't an issue. Why? Because its programmed to stop you from going much faster than 30 km/h. It will never let you get anywhere near its 45 km/h free-spin cutoff limit. However, you are saddled with a wheel with unused potential. Some people are satisfied with 35 km/h, but will never get to enjoy it on a V8. For the experienced rider, even if he knows his wheel is fully charged, is on a known flat piece of tarmac, he still can't tap into the off-limits potential of the wheel.

Do likewise to the Tesla and it can be just as safe as the V8/KS-16S. With a 66 km/h free-spin cutoff limit, Gotway could have mandated a speed limit of 45 km/h on the Tesla - just like the V8 and KS-16S where alarm will sound and extreme tiltback kicks in. Sure its safe, but it also limits the potential for experienced riders to enjoy the wheel fully. So I believe its not so much of Gotway wheels cutout more than others but how you use the wheel. Its not difficult to play around with the settings. You just need to be aware of what you are doing to maximize your fun (& not be told what your limit should be, in a one-size-fits-all manner).

Just how I see it.

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Meng Yang
grammer, missing info

[Meng Yang]

3 hours ago, guyr said:

..... Tesla seems to offer an extra 10mph+ .....

..... But the Tesla is newer, so much more powerful, and cheaper.

I'll mostly be using it to commute to work and around and about daily, likely wearing a helmet but not really wanting to kit up in full safety gear multiple times per day. 

Any thoughts on the matter? Is the Gotway Tesla as safe as the KS16S? 

[Disclaimer: I'm still fairly new to EUC's so sorry if this is a really basic/wrong/annoying question]

Just my hunch ..... seems like KS-16S may be more suited to you coz of what you've said.

Doesn't sound like you're a speed demon and since you said you're relatively new, the extra 10+ mph of the Tesla may not come to benefit you in the short term. If 35 kph is all that you need for work, KS-16S seems to be all you need. That said, if you're over 90 kg, then Tesla may be safer with a stronger motor, even if speed isn't your concern. 

Fyi, I zoom around on my wheels without helmet. The only times I wore a helmet was (i) when I first started to learn to ride an EUC and (ii) on the 2nd day of owning the Tesla, coz I was testing its speed limit at last alarm. Just the way I use my wheel. Definitely not a desirable practice. So far, for the past year of zipping around constantly at 30 kph (V8's limit), I've never fallen at speed. Of course, never say never. Its just that I use my wheel to mostly commute to and around work like yourself. I hardly use my V8 for fun coz it no fun on open stretches ... too slow! Now that I've got the Tesla up to 53 km/h, I've got to start making it a habit to wear a helmet.

Back to your case. While you may not use the Tesla's extra speed now. If you like speed (like me), eventually with more experience you may come to use the extra 10+ mph if you get a Tesla now vs a KS-16S. If that ever happens, you may find the KS-16S's top speed limiting (just like how I thought V8's 30 km/h would be sufficient - coming from a 15 km/h X3 clone - but boy was I wrong!)

Well, it all depends on your needs and abilities; but I would again emphasize my gut feeling (not scientific data) that Tesla will be as safe as the KS-16S with regard to cutouts (if used responsibly).

Edited November 10, 2017 by Meng Yang
add info

[Pingouin]

Hi,

I agree with @Marty Backe about the 2000W motor of the Tesla being a safer option than the 1200W KS16S motor, of course considering you're going at reasonable speeds.

I would really love to test out a KS16S, I have only a deep experience with the KS16B & a little experience on the Tesla. For starter, I have to point out the fact that the Tesla seems to be the best EUC Gotway has come out with in the past year, fat wires, fat axle, nice finish on the shell, water resistant...the greatest thing is that it is definitely an improvement over the ACM, in termes of safety, agility, speed, acceleration, fun...everything (except the range). The shell of the KS16S being almost the same as the one on the KS16B, I would say that the trolley has a tendency to break over time, we can't say for sure on the Tesla, but if seems like it's the same type as the one on the V8 which has a better record.

About the agility, the KS16S may have a better motor, motherboard & therefore algorithm than the KS16B, I feel like it's not as agile as the Tesla (being between the ACM and GT16 in terms of agility). About the speed, it is about the same as on the ACM, however my guess is that the 500W extra power is for the safety, so that if you go over the final alarm, there aren't as many chances of falling as on the ACM (top speed 49kph, 53kph on the Tesla, but the ACM seems to cut at 54kph, the Tesla at 66kph...)

To be honest, I would say that the extra speed on the Tesla is really enjoyable from time to time, even if you don't ride +40kph all the time, but lets say if you want to cruise at 35kph in a straight line, the KS16S will always be at the limit while the Tesla will have a huge margin, plus most of the riders I know of have enjoyed being able to go +45kph, all other EUC then seem so slow (if you want to ride fast, I highly recommend that you wear a full face helmet for safety at least)

Pfff I've lost myself..I've enjoyed the Tesla so much, I might not be very objective, but the Tesla is my favourite EUC for now so...I had to defend it, gotway has put in some effort.

[US69]

16 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

have to come to the defense of Gotway. Their wheels do not have a tendency to cut-out.

By all means, Marty, how do you interpret the numbers that where provided by the russian vendor and also ewheels, than?

Stating, in short, that about 3—5% of all GW, on some models even more, have mosfet burns, while there isnt one recognized for the „S“ Series on Kingsong? When did „a tendency“ start then?

5% means that about every  20th rider is going to faceplant...thats are much to high numbers in my opinion.

 

This should not be a Gotway „bashing“, as you know i just recently bought one again...and would like nothing more than that it works flawless, but these provider numbers mirror exactly my feeling. I really , really hope that will some day be better...but alone the used mosfet hardware gives me doubts. From my gut i feel much more safer on a KS then on a GW......

Just yesterday i checked the insides of my Tesla again.....and after another/better inspection i can only recommend that to every  GW buyer with his new wheel...

 

Beside that there os no question, that of you want to drive allways FASTER than 30—33kmh, the Tesla is the better choice, as it can provide much more speed. The KS16 with its 35kmh max (with a big safety margin to its cutout) is just not fast enough, and riding on the titlback of 35kmh isnt much fun. Lets put it that way-30-33kmh is enough and you love quality and safety? KS16S. You are not happy with that max speed and want to go faster...and can live with some quality quirks? Take the Tesla.

Edited November 10, 2017 by KingSong69

[Brian Morris]

my Tesla hasn't left me in the hospital yet, until it does, Tesla all the way!

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

By all means, Marty, how do you interpret the numbers that where provided by the russian vendor and also ewheels, than?

Stating, in short, that about 3—5% of all GW, on some models even more, have mosfet burns, while there isnt one recognized for the „S“ Series on Kingsong? When did „a tendency“ start then?

5% means that about every  20th rider is going to faceplant...thats are much to high numbers in my opinion.

 

This should not be a Gotway „bashing“, as you know i just recently bought one again...and would like nothing more than that it works flawless, but these provider numbers mirror exactly my feeling. I really , really hope that will some day be better...but alone the used mosfet hardware gives me doubts. From my gut i feel much more safer on a KS then on a GW......

Just yesterday i checked the insides of my Tesla again.....and after another/better inspection i can only recommend that to every  GW buyer with his new wheel...

 

Beside that there os no question, that of you want to drive allways FASTER than 30—33kmh, the Tesla is the better choice, as it can provide much more speed. The KS16 with its 35kmh max (with a big safety margin to its cutout) is just not fast enough, and riding on the titlback of 35kmh isnt much fun. Lets put it that way-30-33kmh is enough and you love quality and safety? KS16S. You are not happy with that max speed and want to go faster...and can live with some quality quirks? Take the Tesla.

We don't know the context of those MOSFET failures. Did they all result in a faceplant? Probably not

For instance, about an hour ago my Mten3 went up in smoke, but no faceplant   

I suspect most failed MOSFETs occur in high load / low speed conditions. An inconvenience for sure, but not faceplant conditions.

I need to wait until I get home from work, but I suspect one or more MOSFETs blew in my Mten3. I was going through one of those full body turn-styles, on my wheel, when I got a little stuck with the wheel. It beeped and turned off. I thought maybe it stopped balancing because I had let it lean over too much. But it won't turn on. 

So the motor must have been under load while I wasn't moving. Maybe KingSong is better with their fuses

Real bummer for sure. What am I going to do without my favorite wheel 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Aw man  that sucks.  Hopefully they can express a new control board out to you quickly.  Too bad they can't use like a resettable fuse like on a GFCI outlet so at least when it blows you just press a button to get it working again while it protects the control board.

When is Gotway going to upgrade their MOSFETs to the ones Rockwheel and KingSong use?  Wouldn't that be a pretty inexpensive upgrade for their boards?

Edited November 11, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Aw man  that sucks.  Hopefully they can express a new control board out to you quickly.  Too bad they can't use like a resettable fuse like on a GFCI outlet so at least when it blows you just press a button to get it working again while it protects the control board.

Tell me about it. I guess I've learned the hard way about another scenario to be avoided with Gotway wheels. Never apply forward force on the wheel if it can't move.

[Meng Yang]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Tell me about it. I guess I've learned the hard way about another scenario to be avoided with Gotway wheels. Never apply forward force on the wheel if it can't move.

Does the Mten3 have internal fans like the Tesla?

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Was it stuck against the turnstyle?  I think I know what you are talking about.  I remember @Cloud got his wheel stuck under a bench or bar stool once, and it blew.  I think when it gets stuck, the control board isn't smart enough to stop trying to ramp up the current to get the wheel turning and the MOSFETs give.  I wonder whether it would be worthwhile to try to replace the MOSFETs as some people have reported success with it although EUC Extreme said it didn't work for him as other components ended up being shot as well.

You would think it might be possible to program the firmware to have a current ceiling of some sort to avoid MOSFET destruction kind of like a rev limiter in a car.  People don't just floor their engines until they explode right?  Maybe it's difficult to program for short spikes in current that can normally be handled.  Introducing software cutoffs can be a delicate balance.

You going to do an autopsy video?  With some of these wheels, it's almost some added insurance to try to buy an extra control board "just in case."   I was considering getting a Tesla CB as a spare, but then again you never know when they start adding improvements to it so getting a spare early board might not be the best.  If they ever discontinue the board though it would be handy.  I know some older KS18 owners were left without spare parts since they don't make compatible boards for the older wheels any more.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, Meng Yang said:

Does the Mten3 have internal fans like the Tesla?

If I recall, yes. I'll find out more in the next 24 hours.

[Marty Backe]

12 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Was it stuck against the turnstyle?  I think I know what you are talking about.  I remember @Cloud got his wheel stuck under a bench or bar stool once, and it blew.  I think when it gets stuck, the control board isn't smart enough to stop trying to ramp up the current to get the wheel turning and the MOSFETs give.  I wonder whether it would be worthwhile to try to replace the MOSFETs as some people have reported success with it although EUC Extreme said it didn't work for him as other components ended up being shot as well.

You would think it might be possible to program the firmware to have a current ceiling of some sort to avoid MOSFET destruction kind of like a rev limiter in a car.  People don't just floor their engines until they explode right?  Maybe it's difficult to program for short spikes in current that can normally be handled.  Introducing software cutoffs can be a delicate balance.

You going to do an autopsy video?  With some of these wheels, it's almost some added insurance to try to buy an extra control board "just in case."   I was considering getting a Tesla CB as a spare, but then again you never know when they start adding improvements to it so getting a spare early board might not be the best.  If they ever discontinue the board though it would be handy.  I know some older KS18 owners were left without spare parts since they don't make compatible boards for the older wheels any more.

Yes, stuck against the turnstyle. For like 1 second.

Yeah, this stuff must be harder to design than you would think. You would think they know exactly how much current they are demanding, and just do a soft shutdown if the current demands exceed the MOSFET capability.

Of course I'll create a video - it's what I do 

A cursory search isn't showing any Mten3 spare boards for sale. This wheel might be down-and-out for a long time.

Fortunately I have four backup wheels, but I'm feeling a little nervous   I may have to procure a Tesla to maintain a proper reserve.

[Marty Backe]

19 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Was it stuck against the turnstyle?  I think I know what you are talking about.  I remember @Cloud got his wheel stuck under a bench or bar stool once, and it blew.  I think when it gets stuck, the control board isn't smart enough to stop trying to ramp up the current to get the wheel turning and the MOSFETs give.  I wonder whether it would be worthwhile to try to replace the MOSFETs as some people have reported success with it although EUC Extreme said it didn't work for him as other components ended up being shot as well.

You would think it might be possible to program the firmware to have a current ceiling of some sort to avoid MOSFET destruction kind of like a rev limiter in a car.  People don't just floor their engines until they explode right?  Maybe it's difficult to program for short spikes in current that can normally be handled.  Introducing software cutoffs can be a delicate balance.

You going to do an autopsy video?  With some of these wheels, it's almost some added insurance to try to buy an extra control board "just in case."   I was considering getting a Tesla CB as a spare, but then again you never know when they start adding improvements to it so getting a spare early board might not be the best.  If they ever discontinue the board though it would be handy.  I know some older KS18 owners were left without spare parts since they don't make compatible boards for the older wheels any more.

[steve454]

22 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Never apply forward force on the wheel if it can't move.

 

[Meng Yang]

16 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

If I recall, yes. I'll find out more in the next 24 hours.

Looks like Mten3 and Tesla have similar fans.

 

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, steve454 said:

 

And don't ride them thru turnstyles 

[mezzanine]

 

This is just a general comment, but Aliexpress is having a big sale tomorrow.  If there are any parts that are available from China that you've had your eye on, tomorrow is a good time to see if they're available at a discounted price.  I'm trying to think of anything I might need EUC-related. 

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, mezzanine said:

 

This is just a general comment, but Aliexpress is having a big sale tomorrow.  If there are any parts that are available from China that you've had your eye on, tomorrow is a good time to see if they're available at a discounted price.  I'm trying to think of anything I might need EUC-related. 

You mean there's sale on Mten3 control boards    If that's true, I'll be buying two 

[mezzanine]

11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You mean there's sale on Mten3 control boards    If that's true, I'll be buying two 

Check with green and fashion.  He's got a link with the Mten3 listed as having parts availability, but it's ambiguous.  The interesting thing about this sale is that I think it applies to most things on the site. 

I was tempted to order a new EUC with this sale because it's possible to knock a couple hundred off the price. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Electric-Unicycle/1908673_511977118.html?spm=2114.12010108.0.0.1341f0cccx7E15

Edited November 11, 2017 by mezzanine

[LanghamP]

I'm unsure what this thing is, and puzzlingly it says it has an electric motor and a 49cc 2-stroke engine. If it is indeed a 2stroke motor, this might be the most vicious skateboard presently being sold. At first I thought it was bonkers and then I realized this skateboard has few of the disadvantages that electric skateboards have. Instant steering, ability to lean appropriately, pneumatic tires of a large diameter. Someone had posted a picture of this type of skateboard earlier but these pictures make it clear how it works.

Engine Speed 9500R/min Rear Disc Brake Self-balancing Skateboard Two stroke 49CC 1000W/36V Off-road  Two-wheel Electric Scooter
http://s.aliexpress.com/n2UVVjU7
(from AliExpress Android)

OMG I found a video of it.

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by LanghamP

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

That's the gas powered version of the Dualtron Man.  @houseofjob has the electric one which is much quieter.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Hunka Hunka Burning Love

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, mezzanine said:

Check with green and fashion.  He's got a link with the Mten3 listed as having parts availability, but it's ambiguous.  The interesting thing about this sale is that I think it applies to most things on the site. 

I was tempted to order a new EUC with this sale because it's possible to knock a couple hundred off the price. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Electric-Unicycle/1908673_511977118.html?spm=2114.12010108.0.0.1341f0cccx7E15

Wow, the cost for control boards is about twice what EWheels charges and the prices for their wheels are high too. Looks like the only reason to buy there now is if your local dealer doesn't sell what you need.