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My Msuper3s+ 1300wh has failed again (3rd time).


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My Msuper3s+ has failed again (3rd time).

The first failure was documented here:
http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/7595-gotway-msuper-v3s-84v-1300wh-failed-loose-axle-nut/?tab=comments#comment-101925

The second failure was documented here:
http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/8082-my-new-gotway-msuper-v3s-84v-1300wh-failed-again/?tab=comments#comment-113358

This time I was traveling about 15mph on level concrete and the wheel suddenly quit and fell forward crashing the corners of the case.  When I pushed the button to turn it back on, I heard the audible signal for Hall Sensor Failure (two fast beeps following by a 1/2 second pause, repeating).  No balancing function.

When I opened the side covers I found a signal cable was pinched (red circle below) by the side cover due to improper routing.  This cable has no slack from above or to the connector.  This cable contains red, black, and white wires that connect on the top forward connector of the main board.  I doubt this is related to the failure, because it isn't a hall sensor signal, and wiggling it doesn't stop the beeping.  What is the function of the top forward connector of the main board?

pinch.thumb.jpg.f73470052a01e7b7b58c667d0c2e20cf.jpg

board.thumb.jpg.7b14b07185c4df4cf8d47ef4d384b016.jpg

I saw a very small flexing movement on the right end of the axle as I rotated the tire back and forth.  I can hear various abnormal noises from inside the motor when I rotate the wheel.  Sometimes it sounds like broken pieces and grinding or scraping.  I can feel slight mechanical hysteresis in the feedback when I change direction of rotating, like some small parts are flexing inside.  Maybe this makes sense to someone?

This case and side panels are totaled (split open, stripped threads, lamp dislodged, etc.).  I really want to understand the cause(s) of these failures so I can change something to prevent recurrence.

Edited by n2eus
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20 minutes ago, n2eus said:

improper routing.  This cable has no slack from above or to the connector.

afaik that ARE the motor signal wires!

Just follow the path...they should go into the motor, so that should answer your questions, what the wires are for.

To the motor there is ONLY power and hall signal wires...nothing else.

Maybe i am wrong..but if the path does not go to motor...there is “only” light and Led and usb cables which are left..which i doubt can crash the wheel...but who knows what a short can do on that?

Edited by KingSong69
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6 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

afaik that ARE the motor signal wires!

Just follow the path...they should go into the motor, so that should answer your questions, what the wires are for.

To the motor there is ONLY power and hall signal wires...nothing else.

Maybe i am wrong..but if the path does not go to motor...there is “only” light and Led and usb cables which are left..which i doubt can crash the wheel...

This cable goes into the top of the body.  I agree that it seems unlikely that shorting this cable could effect balancing function.

I just noticed another peculiarity... I've ridden this motor and main board about 45 miles.  However, the app displays 365 total miles.  ??

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I think the pinched cable is going to the charge port.

The hall sensor and motor power wires exit the big black sleeve coming from the motor (axle), and should go quite directly to the board, afaik. Also the hall cables aren't sleeved together like your pinched cable.

Ultimately, you can check, there's not too much going on: balancing cables between the battery packs (I don't think that's it), battery to board power wires (I don't think that's it), cables to the power button/USB which should be to the front of the board and wheel (I don't think that's it).

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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Just now, n2eus said:

This cable goes into the top of the body.  I agree that it seems unlikely that shorting this cable could effect balancing function.

I just noticed another peculiarity... I've ridden this motor and main board about 45 miles.  However, the app displays 365 total miles.  ??

Then it’s Usb or lights....

For the miles...i dont know where they are saved...semas to be on the BT chip, then...

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6 minutes ago, n2eus said:

This cable goes into the top of the body.  I agree that it seems unlikely that shorting this cable could effect balancing function.

I just noticed another peculiarity... I've ridden this motor and main board about 45 miles.  However, the app displays 365 total miles.  ??

Wheni think about it....

I also heard of a KS...cuting out because the speaker wires got shorted.

So who knows? Perhaps a short in USB power leads to short in DC regulator..leds to a short in board, and cutout?

Edited by KingSong69
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1 minute ago, KingSong69 said:

Then it’s Usb or lights....

For the miles...i dont know where they are saved...semas to be on the BT chip, then...

Thanks.  There could be that many miles on the BT board.

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15 minutes ago, n2eus said:

This cable goes into the top of the body.  I agree that it seems unlikely that shorting this cable could effect balancing function.

I just noticed another peculiarity... I've ridden this motor and main board about 45 miles.  However, the app displays 365 total miles.  ??

Miles are stored in the board. When I got a new ACM board, my 400 miles were gone and it started from 0.

This means that your 'new' board is actually a used board.

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1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Or it's just the old board? Did Dion explicitly say he changed the board last time?

 

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Miles are stored in the board. When I got a new ACM board, my 400 miles were gone and it started from 0.

This means that your 'new' board is actually a used board.

He replaced the main board.  Different codes and grey heat transfer compound instead of white.  New goop on connectors.  I'm just comparing the recent photos with previous.

 
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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Miles are stored in the board. When I got a new ACM board, my 400 miles were gone and it started from 0.

This means that your 'new' board is actually a used board.

Just for interest...did your new board include a BT modul? or did you have to use the old?

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20 minutes ago, n2eus said:

 

He replaced the main board.  Different codes and grey heat transfer compound instead of white.  New goop on connectors.  I'm just comparing the recent photos with previous.

 

 

10 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Just for interest...did your new board include a BT modul? or did you have to use the old?

When my ACM board blew up, I received a new one from EWheels. It did not include the Bluetooth module.

I installed the new board and transferred the original Bluetooth module to the new control board.

My miles were now zero instead of ~400 miles.

I find it hard to believe that the Bluetooth module would store the mileage, and my experience with the ACM confirms it.

So @n2eus, either you received your original board or you received a used board. Whether either of those scenarios is bad is for you to decide.

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45 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

 

When my ACM board blew up, I received a new one from EWheels. It did not include the Bluetooth module.

I installed the new board and transferred the original Bluetooth module to the new control board.

My miles were now zero instead of ~400 miles.

I find it hard to believe that the Bluetooth module would store the mileage, and my experience with the ACM confirms it.

So @n2eus, either you received your original board or you received a used board. Whether either of those scenarios is bad is for you to decide.

Thanks for the confirmation Marty.  It appears that the replacement board was a used one with 365 miles on it.  I had three different boards in this wheel.

One thing that I learned doing root cause analysis of electronic component failures is that interfacing components can stress each other when one or the other fails causing latent damage in the other component which does not exhibit functional degradation until later.  This kind of analysis required special laboratory imaging scans and was very expensive, so it may not be common knowledge.  Lesson learned again:  For confidence in the long term function, if one component failure may have stressed the interfacing component, always replace both and don't reuse.

Edited by n2eus
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