Purshase recommondation for beginner

[olkiluz]

Hi,

thank you for the great forum. I would like to start with EUC so I have not much knowledge.

I want to buy an EUC but have not decided yet. I would be thankful for help!

I live in a city (and especially my street) which is quite steep so some power is needed.

I do not intend to use it regularly for my commute but more for fun or for some travels with trains etc. Therefore range is not a big issue. 

I like speed.

I am not squeamish when it comes to carrying weight, but as mentioned before, I will use it for public transport so a medium weight would be nice.

I do not care much about the design. I care for durability.

I do not need a fancy app but setting a speed limit for the beginning which can be removed when I think it is the right time is good.

I do not mind buying a used one, but my impression was that the price difference is small.

So I thought about parameters like this: 500W/15km/28km/h/12kg

I do not want to invest a lot and would like to invest below 400€, nevertheless, I do not want to invest 350€ for an EUC which I will consider too weak after a few weeks.

I considered the Ninebot S2 which I can get for about 330€ with warranty

I considered the Gotaway MCM3 (130WH) for 313€ without warranty

I considered the Gotaway MCM3 (170WH) for 360€ without warranty

I considered the Gotaway MCM4 (130WH) for 463€ without warranty

I considered this one (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Fashion-style-Powered-Bluetooth-unicycle-1600W-self-balancing-car-smart-car-single-wheel-thinking/32738452250.html) for 284€ but when I asked about more details the seller told me it was out of stock.

I considered the IPS ZERO (240WH) for 421€ without warranty .

If you have other recommendations or better prices (for Germany) I would be thankful. Also if you think my parameters are bullshit feel free to tell me.

Thank you very much!

 

[US69]

To make it short...

A (reliable) 28kmh wheel...at 12kg...for less than 400bucks ...is just not possible! Never ever....

Best option would be a MCM3 V2 260wh from electro-sport.de. All thats is cheaper and less  battery is nonsense...

There has been a chance to buy the ninebot S2 for 300bucks in mediamarkt a while ago, which is a price hit...but far away from 28-30kmh.

it has a max of 24kmh...realistic is 20kmh for more than some meters.

The linked aliexpress „1600“ watt wheel is....garbage, or maximum a toy.

Other than that, take a look around...all informations are here!

[Marty Backe]

43 minutes ago, olkiluz said:

Hi,

thank you for the great forum. I would like to start with EUC so I have not much knowledge.

I want to buy an EUC but have not decided yet. I would be thankful for help!

I live in a city (and especially my street) which is quite steep so some power is needed.

I do not intend to use it regularly for my commute but more for fun or for some travels with trains etc. Therefore range is not a big issue. 

I like speed.

I am not squeamish when it comes to carrying weight, but as mentioned before, I will use it for public transport so a medium weight would be nice.

I do not care much about the design. I care for durability.

I do not need a fancy app but setting a speed limit for the beginning which can be removed when I think it is the right time is good.

I do not mind buying a used one, but my impression was that the price difference is small.

So I thought about parameters like this: 500W/15km/28km/h/12kg

I do not want to invest a lot and would like to invest below 400€, nevertheless, I do not want to invest 350€ for an EUC which I will consider too weak after a few weeks.

I considered the Ninebot S2 which I can get for about 330€ with warranty

I considered the Gotaway MCM3 (130WH) for 313€ without warranty

I considered the Gotaway MCM3 (170WH) for 360€ without warranty

I considered the Gotaway MCM4 (130WH) for 463€ without warranty

I considered this one (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-Fashion-style-Powered-Bluetooth-unicycle-1600W-self-balancing-car-smart-car-single-wheel-thinking/32738452250.html) for 284€ but when I asked about more details the seller told me it was out of stock.

I considered the IPS ZERO (240WH) for 421€ without warranty .

If you have other recommendations or better prices (for Germany) I would be thankful. Also if you think my parameters are bullshit feel free to tell me.

Thank you very much!

 

Bullshit 

Basically, your desired price is not realistic unless you want a toy. I think you should anticipate spending ~double your price for a very respectable wheel that you can enjoy for a long time (durability).

And you mention getting a wheel to have fun. People that enjoy having fun with their wheels will purchase an EUC that has at least ~500wh of battery capacity. Only people that want a wheel for last-mile/kilometer commuting will specify a wheel with the battery capacities that you list.

[LanghamP]

You might be able to get a used KS14c for around that 300-400 dollar range.

[JimB]

2 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

To make it short...

A (reliable) 28kmh wheel...at 12kg...for less than 400bucks ...is just not possible! Never ever....

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Bullshit 

Basically, your desired price is not realistic unless you want a toy. I think you should anticipate spending ~double your price for a very respectable wheel that you can enjoy for a long time (durability).

You can tell that @KingSong69 and @Marty Backe are both "rip off the band-aid quickly" kind of guys.  No beating around the bush.

[Paddylaz]

He certainly loves sentences starting with 'I"...........

[meepmeepmayer]

8 hours ago, Paddylaz said:

He certainly loves sentences starting with 'I"...........

It's really hard to make a precise (or rather definitely correct) statement otherwise. "... is" becomes "I believe ... is", and so on. In the end, you can only speak for yourself with certainty, everything else might surprise you

--

@olkiluz

Your ideas are indeed bullshit (mostly the prices, that just won't work) Sorry.

What's your weight? And where in Germany are you (approximately, if you want to tell)?

If you really want a super light/portable wheel, look at the IPS i5 but that's only 20 km/h. Speed and low weight or low price don't go together.

I'd say a Kingsong 14D is a great, reasonably light (12.5kg or so), fast (28 km/h), safe, quality, modern wheel which is great for commuting (trolley handle, other features) but it's ~1000€.

You can go cheaper with the MCM3 V2 as @KingSong69 recommended, also a good option. But not cheaper than that, I think.

[Keith]

13 hours ago, olkiluz said:

considered the Gotaway MCM3 (130WH) for 313€ without warranty

I considered the Gotaway MCM3 (170WH) for 360€ without warranty

I considered the Gotaway MCM4 (130WH) for 463€ without warranty

With the exception of the IPS I5 which uses higher capacity/power 20700 cells, virtually every other EUC uses 18650 Lithium Ion cells. If you are of average (for a European) weight you could, in theory, get about 8-10kM out of a 170Wh battery. However, anything below 200Wh is a single set of 16 (15 in the case of Ninebot) cells. These have a maximum current drain of around 10Amps where voltage of a single set of cells is likely to have dropped to 3.4V or even lower, depending how good the cells are. so that is 16x3.4x10 Watts = 544W that is with a brand new and fully charged battery, pretty quickly that voltage will drop as the cells discharge. It will also drop as the cells get older as internal resistance increases with age and the close to maximum current draw of a single set of cells will age them much faster.

So, bottom line, by the time you have done half that distance with a single set of cells, say 5KM, you will not be able to get anything like 500W out of the battery and balancing, plus powering to (say) 16km/h with an average European weight is likely to take all of 500W. All it will take is to lean a little too far forward and you will be sliding on your face. I.e. You will be lucky to get 5KM out of the wheel if you ride carefully and it will not be safe to ride above 15km/h or so unless you are very light weight.

As I said the I5 uses a more powerful cell, but for any other EUC you need to be looking at a wheel with at least 340Wh of battery. If you are on the heavy side then an 800W motor with at least 680Wh (4 sets of 16 cells in parallel) is likely to be required - not for range but just to have enough power to hold you up and go at a reasonable speed.

[olkiluz]

Hi

Thank you for your kind help! And thank you for your frankness!

Not wanting to be such an "I" guy but the sentences should be as clear as possible. It was noticed by the writer too  and will be reduced.

There is an offer for MCM3 260Wh for under 400€ which was considered. 

It was thought that the battery capacity is mainly associated with range, so @Keith exemplification was very helpful.

The weight is really no issue, it is nice if it is lightweight but here the easiest compromises can be made.

In Aachen which is in the west of Germany at the Dutch and Belgium border is where the EUC will be used mostly by a guy of about 73kg.

@Skipper_65 is selling his KS14C if the price drops to the price @LanghamP is indicating he can sell it.

Unfortunately the most rigid limitation is price. Which parameter do you think could be adjusted to still get a decent EUC?

Thanks again!

 

 

[LanghamP]

On 11/6/2017 at 2:07 PM, olkiluz said:

Unfortunately the most rigid limitation is price. Which parameter do you think could be adjusted to still get a decent EUC?

 

You cannot negotiate price without giving up safety, because motor power and battery are inelastic parameters and linked to price.

My understanding is powerful motor + weak batteries = weak wheel, and no one puts a lot of battery with a weak motor.

 

[litewave]

23 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Bullshit 

And you mention getting a wheel to have fun. People that enjoy having fun with their wheels will purchase an EUC that has at least ~500wh of battery capacity. Only people that want a wheel for last-mile/kilometer commuting will specify a wheel with the battery capacities that you list.

Marty, you are out of line here. Your advice is generally sound, but you are not the authority on having fun.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, olkiluz said:

Hi

Thank you for your kind help! And thank you for your frankness!

Not wanting to be such an "I" guy but the sentences should be as clear as possible. It was noticed by the writer too  and will be reduced.

There is an offer for MCM3 260Wh for under 400€ which was considered. 

It was thought that the battery capacity is mainly associated with range, so @Keith exemplification was very helpful.

The weight is really no issue, it is nice if it is lightweight but here the easiest compromises can be made.

In Aachen which is in the west of Germany at the Dutch and Belgium border is where the EUC will be used mostly by a guy of about 73kg.

@Skipper_65 is selling his KS14C if the price drops to the price @LanghamP is indicating he can sell it.

Unfortunately the most rigid limitation is price. Which parameter do you think could be adjusted to still get a decent EUC?

Thanks again!

 

 

I think you will be limited to buying a used wheel which is not necessarily a bad thing. I've sold a few of my wheels and people have gone on to riding and enjoying them. If you can find a used KS14C, that would be a fantastic wheel.

[Marty Backe]

3 minutes ago, litewave said:

Marty, you are out of line here. Your advice is generally sound, but you are not the authority on having fun.

You're correct. I should have said 'most' people. I'm sure there are people that buy wheels with 130wh batteries for fun, and have fun.

[mrelwood]

There is a KingSong KS-14D for sale in the classified section. Seems to be used very little and in good condition. It does cost more even before shipping, but I think it's one of the closest you can get to what you wish. Only one request (price) not fulfilled, that's pretty good! 

As replied earlier, a 200Wh battery does not equal 28km/h or 15km. Lhotz 340Wh = 15km, but after the first 5km the top speed starts to come down from 26km/h, ending at walking speeds. And Lhotz's 500W is NOT a safe wheel to go 26km/h.

For 28km/h even at full battery you need more power from the engine AND a bigger battery.

[steve454]

On 11/5/2017 at 1:39 PM, olkiluz said:

So I thought about parameters like this: 500W/15km/28km/h/12kg

The IPS has the power, range, is close to the weight, but top speed is 20kmh.https://www.wheelgo.com/product/ips132-white/

[olkiluz]

I got an MCM3 and I am very pleased. 

Thank you all for your interesting input!

[meepmeepmayer]

Thanks for the follow-up!

[steve454]

On 11/6/2017 at 2:03 PM, LanghamP said:

You cannot negotiate price without giving up safety, because motor power and battery are inelastic parameters and linked to price.

My understanding is powerful motor + weak batteries = weak wheel, and no one puts a lot of battery with a weak motor.

Rather than trying to square peg/round hole, one would have much better success with simply getting a new girlfriend, treating her very badly, and then casually mention your birthday is coming up and that you want a leather jacket and an expensive wheel. I'm actually serious.

I agree, and that is a good point.  

[Smoother]

8 hours ago, olkiluz said:

I got an MCM3 and I am very pleased. 

Thank you all for your interesting input!

If you got one of those you listed, you are going to hurt yourself. My first wheel had a 340wh battery and I had to be very careful once the power dropped to 50%. 50% of 340 is 170.  So your best ride starts where my nightmares began.  You cannot look at battery power like gasoline; the last drop is not as powerful as the first.  One steep incline, a kerb, sudden speed change, and you'll be on your face.  That's NOT fun.  

Do yourself a favour and read about batteries here.  There's a lot to know. 

Welcome, and enjoy.

WRISTGUARDS.

 

[olkiluz]

Although I am very happy with my choice being the MCM3 or no EUC.

I have to give you credit recommending an EUC with a bigger battery. 

Especially now in quite cold (+-0°C) temperatures, I can get to 20% in no time. And at 20% I go with walking speed.

So for every beginner reading this: Buy the best you can afford. If this is the MCM3 you will still have a lot of fun.

[duaner]

> So for every beginner reading this: Buy the best you can afford. If this is the MCM3 you will still have a lot of fun.

OR: Buy the least expensive you can find.  Learn on it, see how you like the sport. The cheap EUC can get scratched and cracked - you don't really care.  Then you then buy a good wheel.  (And let friends learn on the inexpensive one - which may now be held together with gorilla tape).